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Post by decepticon on Aug 10, 2006 19:08:03 GMT -5
at 6:45 pm cst a ladder cton was hosted and numerous peeps were asking for the pass. Let me relay some of the goings on. 6:52:48 PM AdkEric-tk : what the password for the ladder game? 6:53:32 PM Smallpotatoes-tk : the smacktard wont give it to me 6:54:11 PM AdkEric-tk : then he's breaking he rules 6:55:15 PM firewood_for_hell-tk : yea thats the only reason ppl stay in high ranks cuz they wont let people with low ranks play them 6:55:56 PM Astax_c4f-tk : I got bounced out of a ladder lobby ratehr quickly once, all I wanted was to play 7:00:23 PM Smallpotatoes-tk : News Flash: Polyduekes says sucky ladders can't play ladder games 7:02:38 PM firewood_for_hell-tk : its a good stratgey if your gutless enough to do it FROM PM's Smallpotatoes: Let me in plz Polyduekes: Well you suck big time Smallpotatoes: And that's why I can't play? Polyduekes: I don't care Sounds like this rank hoarding fire is growing. Or eliteism is slowly getting out of hand. This issue really needs to be addressed. PLZ. Somebody. Stop the Madness!!!!!
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Post by tommynt on Aug 10, 2006 19:27:36 GMT -5
beh everybody can pay with whom he wants to, there is no rule that u can enter every ladder game which is up
What u expect when u go on michal Jordans playing ground where he just plays his games with charles barkley? U say hey and i m a bballer aswell now lets play?
or what did the lil girl in the sandbox say when u wanted play nursegames? I guess she said you r (s) too little
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Post by deviousdevil on Aug 10, 2006 19:34:28 GMT -5
I doubt there would be any objections to any ladder player of decent repute being in a cton game or semi-cton.
The issue is teamers and given even so-called experienced players thingy that up, giving the opportunity to some random player with next to no record is not a popular move.
Would you want someone completely out of their depth deciding whether you are going to be even competitive in a teamer?
Saying that, host your own and no doubt that'll get higher ranked players in. As for evidence of rank whoring, I can't say it is particularly evident, people just care about winning and bringing in an unknown is completely at odds with that.
So, get yourself known and for the right reasons.
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Post by Gogf on Aug 10, 2006 19:34:51 GMT -5
Speaking from experience, good players generally don't want bad players in their games. There's no rank hording conspiracy, no descrimination, just a desire to play with people who are competent. Newer players get let into top player games all the time, but not everybody who asks gets in. It's a fact of life, and it's something I respected when I was new and couldn't get into a top player game. If you're a good player, people will start to recognize your skills and let you into their games.
I think elitism is also too harsh of a term. It's no fun to set up a renaissance teamer and watch one of your teammates die to longbows while he builds Sistine Chapel and Notre Dame in his two cities and immediately connects a wine with his worker. Sure, you can give people advice, but a fun competitive game where you don't have to constantly babysit people is obviously much more enjoyable. It's not about elevating our egos through elitism, it's about playing fun games.
For the record, I'm not against letting in new players from time to time. It's just frustrating to lose a game when somebody dies because the guy behind him put twenty conquistadors in his back city when he was down a city and let him die without even making the other team double move!
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Post by coloneltreize on Aug 10, 2006 20:27:16 GMT -5
Elitism is an attitude problem. It isn't about whether or not you allow certain players to play. Elitism refers to an upturned-nose attitude toward rejecting players and its use is not harsh. And it is unacceptable for players who call themselves members of a gaming community to be allowed to treat other fans of the game rudely. The real issue is whether this conversation took place:
Smallpotatoes: Let me in plz Polyduekes: Well you suck big time Smallpotatoes: And that's why I can't play? Polyduekes: I don't care
It is wrong for anyone to talk like this, and frankly I'm surprised by your nonchalant reactions. I personally challenge Polyduekes, if he is indeed a Ladderite, (if that's what he's calling himself these days) to defend himself in this thread. If this conversation really did take place, he should be banned from the ladder.
We have to remember the spirit of the Ladder. It is to foster an environment where all lovers of Civ can congregate and play. Rank is irrelevant. Everybody knows that the more games you play, the higher rank you achieve, period. You can't judge a player's skill by their rank, because some good players have less time than others to play.
As for who really is the best, IMHO, it is the duty of the better players to coach noobs. One of the best ways to learn how to play in multiplayer games is to team up with a veteran. Get over yourselves and stop comparing yourselves to the Civ equivalent of Charles Barkley and Micheal Jordan. After all, you were noobs once, too, and even they know that there is always someone better out there. If you think you really are the best, then consider it a greater difficulty level to have a noob for a teammate. Good players should constantly be finding new ways to challenge their skill. That is what should give you a good reputation in the community. But, if you must reject a player, do so with a little respectfulness and tact.
In conclusion, it's easy to talk smack to other people, hiding behind a computer screen and forgetting that there is a human on the other end. Just because that stuff happens outside the Ladder doesn't mean it has to happen withn this group.
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Post by Gogf on Aug 10, 2006 21:07:04 GMT -5
Elitism is an attitude problem. It isn't about whether or not you allow certain players to play. Elitism refers to an upturned-nose attitude toward rejecting players and its use is not harsh. And it is unacceptable for players who call themselves members of a gaming community to be allowed to treat other fans of the game rudely. The real issue is whether this conversation took place: Smallpotatoes: Let me in plz Polyduekes: Well you suck big time Smallpotatoes: And that's why I can't play? Polyduekes: I don't care It is wrong for anyone to talk like this, and frankly I'm surprised by your nonchalant reactions. I personally challenge Polyduekes, if he is indeed a Ladderite, (if that's what he's calling himself these days) to defend himself in this thread. If this conversation really did take place, he should be banned from the ladder. No, he should not. Sure, ladderites should respect eachother and be nice when rejecting people who want to get into your game (I generally just tell people that the game is full), but people should also be allowed to say whatever they want. If he acts badly to you, you don't have to play with him. That's what do not play lists are for. As for whether that conversation took place. Either somebody who doesn't know Polyd eukes well enough to spell his username properly decided to rewrite it by hand, or that good old imposter is back at it. People with high rank know that rank is irrelevant more than anybody else. If you don't play for a week or two, your rank will plumet. The fact is that if you're unknown, or have a 10% win percentage from playing CTONs, nobody's going to be enthusiastic about letting you into their game with the best players on the ladder. It's nothing personal, but we want competitive games too! It's up to the community to decide what kind of a reputation somebody has. I know tons of top players who don't always want to play with newer players, and I still respected them. Hell, I respected top players specifically because they didn't let me into their games when I was newer. The concept of wanting to play in a very good, very competitive game is a good one. As for it being the duty of older players to coach new ones, that's not true either. It's great to do it, and it's always nice to play games with newer players on your team. That's your decision though. I know people who have been extremely frustrated with Civ and withdrawn from the ladder because too many people on their team were playing horribly and making them lose enough though they were playing amazingly. It's frustrating, and there are times when you don't want to deal with it. Aside from wanting everybody in the game to be able to put up a fight, expand well, and tech (except Ironclad ), players also hate playing with people who don't listen to their advice. If someone is building a barracks first in both cities and you tell them to build a worker, there's nothing more frustrating than them completely ignoring you. Finally, balance is always in question. Newer players are let into top players games in small numbers for a reason: if the captains don't know the players, it's very difficult to make the teams balanced.
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nicoya1
Warrior
Tourney Director
C4PTD
Posts: 253
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Post by nicoya1 on Aug 10, 2006 21:09:57 GMT -5
I think ppl have the right to play whom ever they decide to play. If you host a game then all the choices are up to u. From who u want to play to what settings u want to play. I've been in games where the host kicks everyone out and rehosts the game because everyone was complaining about the setting. As for Poly I played him when I was a noob and he beat me
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Post by decepticon on Aug 10, 2006 22:19:16 GMT -5
once again the talk about teamers and more teamers has got me yawning. Yes the conversation took place...I sat here and watched as my friend was blocked from the only ladder game up in the lobby. Get off yer high horses and start teachin people to play. New players can't climb the ladder cause they aren't yer buddy. Yeah sounds real competitive. And for yer info I climbed to #4 not by playin yer stinkin lame getting old reni teamers..but by climbing the hard way to 18 or 19 and then challenging all the way to #4. NOT ONE TEAMER EVER EARNED ME THAT RANK. Can any of you say the same?
Also i completely agree with you that no one wants ONE noob in a high level teamer....... however when there are TWO in the lobby asking to play...it is no handicap at all to let both in, one on each team. Show some competive and good natured spirit plz. Thats all. Its not hard. In fact it would probably be the greatest thing that could happen to the ladder.
Any of you are welcome to join any game i host...teamer or not...because you are a ladderite and deserve to play.
If you don't like them apples, make your own ladder. Call it the Reni Teamer Mostly ladder.
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Post by Tony on Aug 10, 2006 22:29:36 GMT -5
OMG, why dont you just make a link to the past 100 threads that have been about so called elitist teamers.
Change the record, it was boring the last 99 times!
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Post by ironclad on Aug 10, 2006 22:46:47 GMT -5
invite who you want... but kicking someone after you invited them is obviously wrong , ive seen it done a few times not often though ;D, and if im host first come first serve, and if alot are coming at same time i take the best
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Post by coloneltreize on Aug 10, 2006 22:47:50 GMT -5
Freedom of speech was not meant to protect abusive comments. There are clear rules in the Ladder that govern sportsman-like conduct and the consequences of a violation. Yeah, you can say whatever you want, but also admins can and should ban you for being rude to other players. It is a fact of human nature that we are sometimes impressed with people who reject us. It even makes them seem cooler for doing so. If someone makes themselves unavailable, we are drawn to them. It doesn't surprise me that you respect such players. One of the drawbacks of being the best is that you have an obligation to prove it...constantly. The Ladder rules state that the top ten ranked players must accept a valid challenge from only the top 25. Other than that, anything goes. Yes, the best players should be able to have competitive games. But who is the best? I take it you consider yourself one. A new player may be unranked in the ladder, but have experience in multiplayer games outside the ladder. There are no statistics I know of that state how many players play Direct IP, LAN, or Hot-seat games. But I digress. Like I said before, it is plenty competitive to play having a noob for a teammate. It's like playing with a handicap. But of course you don't have to do that. I'm just looking at it from a certain point of view. I wasn't stating a fact, that's just my humble opinion. I guess it depends on how much you love the game. The admins do thankless volunteer work. But you don't have to be an admin. Do you love the game enough to want to share it with everyone, or just enough to play with your friends? It's up to you. This reminds me of my first multiplayer game in the lobby, before I joined the Ladder. I joined a 2v2v2 teamer (not knowing about team games) with non-Ladderites. I had 6 months of single-player experience under my belt. Immediately, my teammate starts telling me what to do. Well, I didn't know how to in-game chat and he thought I was ignoring him. I didn't want to research what he was researching anyhow, but in his arrogance he just assumed that his descisions were correct, without knowing me from Adam. He finally said to all that if he lost, it was his teammate's fault, not his own. Ultimately, he declared an early war before bronzeworking and got himself destroyed. I quit soon after, using the fact that he left me to fight a war he started as an excuse. The moral of the story is that sometimes you don't know who is the coach and who is the coached, even it is their first multiplayer game. Finally, why does balance always come into play? Not every game is a tournament and it's been said in other posts that Ladder players, as good as they are against each other, are not especially fond of irregular maps, irregular starts, and irregular teams. I believe it is the fault of the ranking system, which is not the reason the ladder was created, that makes everyone so competitive that matches have to be absolutely even. In the ISDG, it gets to the point that they have to customize the entire map and the start locations to every teams' satisfaction. In conclusion, I don't care how good I am or how good you are. I never look at the stats. I prefer the fellowship that the Ladder offers, in which to play friendly games with people like yourself. I genuinely care more about having the fun that the game offers aside from victory conditions. Just play in a courteous and respectful manner.
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Post by knupp on Aug 10, 2006 23:01:51 GMT -5
Please give me a break. Do we really need a thread every weekend about this "conspirency" against noobs and how all top ranked players are in bed with each other hoarding their ranks. Do you really need to have the same post every single day?
Poly should not be banned from the ladder or anybody else who doesn't want to play with somebody who's going to die in the first 5 turns.
I'll tell you about a game I played today. 4v4 Inland Sea and I'm front and kill the guy across from me. What happens next??? The guy on the other front gets killed by 3 longbows. Three longbows that had been walking on flat ground for the last 30 turns around his territory. The same 3 longbows he never attacked and let pillage his iron and horses. The same 3 lonbbows that wandered around and killed both of his back cities.
If I host a teamer and I don't want to play with some idiot like this in my game I should be banned from the ladder? All my conversations should be posted on the forums? Give me a break. Grow up smatt and find another topic to obsess about.
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Post by coloneltreize on Aug 10, 2006 23:24:49 GMT -5
It's not a conspiracy if everyone knows about it.
No, Poly should be banned for his poor sportsman-like attitude and mean-spirited tongue. He was clearly abusive to smallpotatoes.
Calling someone an idiot is just the kind of abuse I'm talking about. Which psuedonym did you speak as?
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Post by Polydeukes on Aug 10, 2006 23:30:07 GMT -5
nice lies can you post here smatt/deception or whatever The conversation you post here was never that way. Smallpotatoe told me i should check ladder forum later, i said i dont care. He calls me a smacktard and i should play with him? It was teamer not a cton and it wouldnt be the first time a Smallpotatoe aka thingytator ruins a game. Smatt aka ranksleeper rank means nothing , you are the one who thinks it does. I can play with who i want.
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Post by Avogadro on Aug 10, 2006 23:32:01 GMT -5
It's one thing to attempt to balance a teamer, quite another to not let people in cton matches cause host thinks they "suck". Sorry bud but some people got some growing up to do, this is a game, no more no less. People can say what they want about elitism not being an issue, these same 6 people can continue to play each other when the rest of the ladder gets tired of it and leaves. All I can say is thank God for the good hosts that are keeping this community alive.
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Post by Polydeukes on Aug 10, 2006 23:34:08 GMT -5
coloneltreize who are you? i dunno you but your "wise" comments are great. He called me a smacktard first, but oh well think what you want. i dont care about your opinion anyway.
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Post by knupp on Aug 10, 2006 23:35:38 GMT -5
No he's not an idiot. But excuse me for getting upset about wasting an hour in staging and even longer playing a game that ends when they other guy dies to 3 longbows. I joined the ladder so I could play games with a bunch of good guys (or girls) and have some fun. Playing the best I can and getting a kill while everybody else on my team dies is not fun. It's completely ridiculous and if I don't feel like doing that again them I'm not going to...period. Does that me some rank hoarding, jacka** eletist who thinks everybody is noobs? No, makes me a person with a some common sense.
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Post by Polydeukes on Aug 10, 2006 23:37:14 GMT -5
It's one thing to attempt to balance a teamer, quite another to not let people in cton matches cause host thinks they "suck". Sorry bud but some people got some growing up to do, this is a game, no more no less. People can say what they want about elitism not being an issue, these same 6 people can continue to play each other when the rest of the ladder gets tired of it and leaves. All I can say is thank God for the good hosts that are keeping this community alive. It was a TEAMER not CTON Smatt is a liar
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Post by coloneltreize on Aug 10, 2006 23:39:18 GMT -5
Smallpotatoes should be banned for name-calling.
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Post by knupp on Aug 10, 2006 23:40:04 GMT -5
Woohoo let's make this thread really HOOOOOOT!
I'm really heated about this issue now. And all I've got to say is when do you play the game Avo??? Never seen you, not once. Please don't say the ladder is a bunch of elitists. You don't play in it. All I've ever seen of you is make these posts once in a while on the forums.
The only people that need to do the growing up are the people who are so obsessed with gaining rank they will post about it every single day. If we let in everybody who wanted to play every game then every game there would be some guy dying in the first 15 turns. You want to deal with it go ahead...put your civ disk in, load up the game, and host it.
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