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Post by djojoz on Aug 27, 2006 5:50:52 GMT -5
Yesterday at 11:53pm, Canucksoldier wrote:Ok the ironman results are as follows:
Mansurji OS Swissy KC uastranger ..A.. popov FUN Deyreeper RaY Romazi MDR Eiffel LKT EBD MUD DustyDragoon OOD
Thanks all, you are trully all iron civers for playing a single match for so long
CS
FUN aren't fourth but third . Already that we lose the second place because of the departure of swissy. Popov has never had pop up saying to him that he to block a player.It is a scandal. We demand our second place. Our player popov does not speak english and does not understood anything of which unrolled at the time of the end of Ironman !!!!!
Why not ask the opinion of the other players?
I find that it there with much kindness in this decision.
[Fun]GGjohanson
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Post by whitebull on Aug 27, 2006 6:11:14 GMT -5
I was on vanilla lobby when decision had been taken by players. All players agreed to call it on points without swissy, with benediction of cs .... Change results after thet seems very unfair.
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Post by Canucksoldier on Aug 27, 2006 8:20:04 GMT -5
I was on vanilla lobby when decision had been taken by players. All players agreed to call it on points without swissy, with benediction of cs .... Change results after thet seems very unfair. There is already a thread discussing this, and if you want to appeal Levi's decision, you can do so to SPM by email. The order of players was what was given to me by 2 different players at the end of the match, if there is a mistake between the order of uastranger and popov, I'm going to need a end game save sent to me first, then I'll change the order. And that decision I made to continue the game without Swissy was before I found out that he had indeed been trying 3 times to join, rebooting each time to try and solve the firewall issue. I even had Conquistador45 try and sub and he couldn't join and got the firewall popup, I myself even tried and got the same popop immediately. That is when I brought Levi into the situation to make a call on the order of finish, the game was already called on points and Swissy had no chance to persue his late game strategies. So it is no "scandal" it is an unfortunate set of circumstances and that is all. CS
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Post by Canucksoldier on Aug 27, 2006 8:28:09 GMT -5
Yesterday at 11:53pm, Canucksoldier wrote:Ok the ironman results are as follows: Mansurji OS Swissy KC uastranger ..A.. popov FUN Deyreeper RaY Romazi MDR Eiffel LKT EBD MUD DustyDragoon OOD Thanks all, you are trully all iron civers for playing a single match for so long CS FUN aren't fourth but third . Already that we lose the second place because of the departure of swissy. Popov has never had pop up saying to him that he to block a player.It is a scandal. We demand our second place. Our player popov does not speak english and does not understood anything of which unrolled at the time of the end of Ironman !!!!! Why not ask the opinion of the other players? I find that it there with much kindness in this decision. [Fun]GGjohanson I did ask, every player that was in the Civ4 lobby, that didn't head to bed right away had the opporunity to talk with me. As to the popup issue, I know there was a popup, as I tried joining the game myself and got one, and I know that Firaxis made it so both players get the popups since 1.61 existed. An even if for some reason popov didn't get the popups, someone should have been monitoring the Civ4 lobby, looking for swissy, I know for a fact that atleast one player was monitoring the WL's lobby by mistake. There is no conpiracy here, just simply that Swissy was deemed to have earned the second place spot and by no fault of his own could not have finished the game. CS
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Post by mansurji on Aug 27, 2006 9:50:30 GMT -5
Uh oh, there's one guy that was monitoring WL lobby ? Wasnt it DeyReepher ? As it was the guy we sent to check for swissy... remember it was very late ( 6 am in france ) and we were all confused and exhausted. So this could explain some things...
Well, there must be a solution that could content everyone
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Post by Ellestar on Aug 27, 2006 10:05:07 GMT -5
Uh oh, there's one guy that was monitoring WL lobby ? Wasnt it DeyReepher ? As it was the guy we sent to check for swissy... remember it was very late ( 6 am in france ) and we were all confused and exhausted. So this could explain some things... Well, there must be a solution that could content everyone Yes. Since now we know that popov actually saw the popups, he should get 0 points from that event. That will be a much better solution.
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Post by mansurji on Aug 27, 2006 10:07:46 GMT -5
? I'm sorry ellestar, why are you speaking about this ?
It's a matter between the players of the ironman and the admins, we dont need your poor humouristic message.
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Post by Ellestar on Aug 27, 2006 10:09:59 GMT -5
I'm speaking because i don't like cheating and unjustice. And from what i saw here, it looks very fishy.
Also, it's a ladder forums and a ladder issue. I think that as a veteran Civ 4 ladder player i have a right to speak about any issue. If only because it affects me as well, directly or indirectly.
By the way, who are you anyway so to say to me when i should speak and when i shouldn't?
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Post by mansurji on Aug 27, 2006 10:20:51 GMT -5
Oh sure, sorry i didnt knew i was speaking with a ladder veteran, i apologize. Of course, you have the right to discuss a situation where you wasnt involved, and to send some dubious humouristic message into a serious situation. It's the right the years passed has given to you, i agree, no probz with that.
Anyway, you're right on one point, there's some injustice there, and the situation is really tricky. I hope we will be able to find a good solution for everyone.
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Post by Tony on Aug 27, 2006 10:23:43 GMT -5
? I'm sorry ellestar, why are you speaking about this ? It's a matter between the players of the ironman and the admins, we dont need your poor humouristic message. Then why is it posted in a public forum? But i kinda agree with Ellestar here, if it is known that popov did get a pop up, and he is pretending he didnt then he should be given zero pionts! Also how can ALL players agree to call it on score if swissy wasnt in the game? Why was there no relaod from lobby?
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Post by whitebull on Aug 27, 2006 10:29:30 GMT -5
Also how can ALL players agree to call it on score if swissy wasnt in the game? Why was there no relaod from lobby? Because Swissy was already taking as out cause of more than 30 minutes waiting...
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Post by Ellestar on Aug 27, 2006 10:30:50 GMT -5
Oh sure, sorry i didnt knew i was speaking with a ladder veteran, i apologize. Of course, you have the right to discuss a situation where you wasnt involved, and to send some dubious humouristic message into a serious situation. It's the right the years passed has given to you, i agree, no probz with that. Anyway, you're right on one point, there's some injustice there, and the situation is really tricky. I hope we will be able to find a good solution for everyone. Feel free to ignore anything what i said, after all you have no other choice but pretend that you don't understand my arguments. That will make you look like a fool but whatever is good for you. Also, it wasn't humorous message. I'm serious. IMHO Popov should be punished.
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Post by whitebull on Aug 27, 2006 10:31:20 GMT -5
By the way, who are you anyway so to say to me when i should speak and when i shouldn't? Sure not, but i'd preffer too that only ppl wo were there talk about a thing they know... Not speaking about who is trustable or not, but on what were the facts...
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Post by Ellestar on Aug 27, 2006 10:36:20 GMT -5
By the way, who are you anyway so to say to me when i should speak and when i shouldn't? Sure not, but i'd preffer too that only ppl wo were there talk about a thing they know... Not speaking about who is trustable or not, but on what were the facts... In other news today, when i said that we know that Popov saw the popups, mansurji and now whitebull started flames so to hide my statement. But i'm not dumb, it will not work here. I know that board warrior tactics very well. If you'll continue to do it i'll just continue to post that statement. That will render your tactics ineffective. I repeat once again. Now we know that Popov saw the popups. That conclusion probably was missed by admins and so i said about it. I have a right to say anything that will bring justice to offenders. And, talking about facts you wanted, no amount of your flame will hide that fact.
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Post by whitebull on Aug 27, 2006 10:42:37 GMT -5
Sure not, but i'd preffer too that only ppl wo were there talk about a thing they know... Not speaking about who is trustable or not, but on what were the facts... In other news today, when i said that we know that Popov saw the popups, mansurji and now whitebull started flames so to hide my statement. But i'm not dumb, it will not work here. I know that board warrior tactics very well. If you'll continue to do it i'll just continue to post that statement. That will render your tactics ineffective. I repeat once again. Now we know that Popov saw the popups. That conclusion probably was missed by admins and so i said about it. I have a right to say anything that will bring justice to offenders. And, talking about facts you wanted, no amount of your flame will hide that fact. I must say that i don't understand all you say, sorry. I was here last night, on teamspeak and on C4F. Your version of facts is simply too far from what i have seen, read and eard, that's all i wanna say. I don't try to insult anyone... if u could do same it would be great
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Post by mansurji on Aug 27, 2006 10:44:49 GMT -5
My last message here. Tony, you are right, it's a public forum, by now i'll pm the admins directly. Ellestar, i use to read and understand the arguments i'm reading. Specially those given by ladder veterans, i give them an High importance. Anyway, i was speaking with popov during the waiting, and i know he's totally innnocent, so i cant agree with your idea. Sorry if i think it was dubious humour, but your style of writing gave some confusion. I'd like to stop the discussion here, but now you know i wont answer, feel free to say whatever you want, noone will catch this on you. Edit : i've just read your last message.
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Post by SirPartyMan on Aug 27, 2006 10:58:36 GMT -5
For everyone's benefit, here is an important CCC rule:
"If there are any disputes, the TD in charge of that event will make a ruling. If challenged by either side, then a committee of at least 3 Ladder Admins and TD's (from different clans than those directly involved in the dispute) will be called upon to impartially reach a fair decision. All parties are bound by this decision".
To my knowledge there was no appeal of Levi's decision.
Game connection issues can be very frustrating for all of us. I wasn't directly involved, but I'm sure the TD and other admins did their best to resolve a difficult problem.
Best, SPM
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Post by deyreepher on Aug 27, 2006 11:35:08 GMT -5
*Here's the story, Swissy crashed. *I opened up C4F to monitor for Swissy, when it looked like Swissy wasn't coming back, I asked CS and Conq45 to see if one of them would sub for KC. *For 30 min after Swissy's drop, both CS and Conq rebooted their systems to try to get into the game. Conq said that he could not get past popov on several occassions. *Being that it was taking so long for a replacement to jump in, we decided to invoke the 10 min rule after half an hour had gone by. However, with 30 turns left in the game and there being 3 min of uninterrupted lag spikes (this does not include the additional lag throughout the turn) the game had become very uncomfortable and the prospect of the event taking another 3-5 hours for 30 turns did not appeal to the rest of us. We wanted to call it on points, being that there were 4 remaining players and waiting 45 min had made the French players really sleepy. *It was brought to my attention that if we did not continue playing, Swissy would get his points, so naturally we continued for a few turns, then called it. *We shut down the game and lo and behold, Swissy is in the Vanilla Civ Lobby. I find out he's been there the entire time. In fact, he's been trying to jump into the game the entire time, Conq45 was trying as well. It turns out that both were getting error messages saying they could not connect to popov, but the other 3 players in the game had no way of knowing, except when Conq45 relayed the msg to me. I realize now that the C4F program does not show players from both lobbies, the way it does from the in-game browser (I haven't been playing much so it's an honest mistake). It is at this point that KC appeals the results and where Levi steps in and Swissy receives his 2nd place.
Now that is what happened.
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Post by deyreepher on Aug 27, 2006 11:46:38 GMT -5
Now my opinions on the IronSub Event.... If a clan chooses to drop from the event without being eliminated, it unbalances the entire event. Case in point, when I jumped in KC jumped from 5th/4th place all the way to 2nd with 1st place looming in a matter of 5 turns. The rapid jump in points was possible due to the MDR team dropping out, by the time I had jumped into sub, Swissy was well on his way to finishing off the MDR AI. When you have all the land from the northernmost tile to the southernmost in the west with the turns to rebuild the infrastructure in those lands, you get an unfair advantage. The only people I've heard praising the Ironman event as of late are those that have started the event. With the exception of Swissy, everyone had been subbed out and were not the original players. Ironman my ass, it's the IronSub event. Some of the reasons some of those players won't come back? The lag, it is the most atrocious lag I've ever seen. Not even in the early 90s with my 14.4k baud modem, did I ever experience such lag. The game is unplayable by the modern era. The turn timer was at 2:40 minutes by the time I had joined, but this did not account for the progressive lag, where the timer was not ticking down at real-time, but more like at 5X slower speed. On top of that I would get hit with a lag spike that lasted for 3 min, every turn. 3 min of not being able to click a unit and issue commands. This event is just painful. It's torture. Why would you do this to the players? There are other ways to take out your frustration upon the ladder. I had already had my fair share of civ up to this point, but the IronSub event has broken me. I weep, a bitter and downtrodden man.
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Post by Canucksoldier on Aug 27, 2006 11:46:47 GMT -5
I agree with DeyReepers recall of the events, they are inline with what I remember and ofcourse I've already explained my role and reasoning.
CS
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