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Post by tommynt on Aug 28, 2006 3:40:03 GMT -5
Just get the fact that players cant vote some1 out of game in ccc but that u gotta contact a td before going on and going on before checking lobby and civ4f carefully is also not way to go
if some1 cant connect u have to reload not go on
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Post by whitebull on Aug 28, 2006 3:48:36 GMT -5
1- They did contact a td 2- They didn't decide to put some one out, but decided to applied rules of 15 minutes after more than 30 minutes... 3- To reload, u must see the guy in lobby and know he cannot connect. It seems swissy (i don't blame him, i would not wanna be in his frustrating position, for sure) not only cannot connect to the game, but also to ppl in lobby...
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Post by deyreepher on Aug 28, 2006 5:01:41 GMT -5
One of the key points to remember here is...I royally screwed up by not checking the Vanilla Civ lobby. I have not been playing much in the past two months and did not see Swissy via the C4F WL lobby. It just something I did not realize until after the fact. Event 5, the Ironman event was a Vanilla Civ event, therefore Swissy would have popped up in the Vanilla Civ lobby. I did not think of this until everyone had left the game.
What it boils down to is that this was a unique situation. Most of the events were played with WL, I think maybe 2-3 events were played with Vanilla Civ. I screwed up...but this is another case for people to start using C4F. If he had been using it, he could have msg'd me when I logged onto C4F and vice versa.
As a TD (not for that event), I know what the rules are and we went through the proper steps before we dropped Swissy from the game. And I will repeat this for the umpteenth time. We did not see Swissy. WE DID NOT SEE HIM. Did I mention we did not see Swissy?
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Post by venceslas on Aug 28, 2006 5:03:40 GMT -5
Well french guy are rather upset, but one thing remained for us. Ironman is a great event and should use in the next CCC, it's the game the nearest of the civ spirit chris.
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Post by Bantams on Aug 28, 2006 5:47:56 GMT -5
My problem with this Ironman situation is simple: If a player is blocking another player from rejoining, he or she will receive a pop up message from the game saying that an incoming player has failed to connect to him or her. It is then that player's responsibility to speak up and let everyone know what the situation is. I was listening in on the whole situation on TS with Dey, and nobody in the game knew that Swissy was trying to reconnect for 45 minutes because one player kept his or her mouth shut and simply ignored the warnings that Swissy could not connect. That is really poor in my opinion. Even though my clan would have finished 4th and received points if Swissy were disqualified, I feel that there is no reason why he should be. He made every attempt to get back into the game, and because a blocking player did not let anyone know that he or she was currently a bad peer, Swissy was never able to re-enter the game. Yes but sometimes in my experiance anyway all you get is connecting/contacting peer with no name given so then i guess nobody gets the pop up message and i agree with the TD ruling if swissy cant reconnect and everyone else fell too sleep it aint his fault perhaps if somebody still as a save from the time swiss dropped you could do a reload IMO at least that would solve all the issues in this thread
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Post by MMV on Aug 28, 2006 8:55:44 GMT -5
as announced for this event -
This final round will be truly epic style 24/7 until end of game or until a Final Victory condition is reached (subs allowed).... Teams may only make substitutions a maximum of 5 times in this event, other players should keep count. This event will be played with vanilla CIV4 not WARLORDS. Substitutions: Allowed throughout. Players can agree to take 15 minute breaks every 4 hours. If someone must leave the match (or drops), 15 minutes will be allowed for them or their substitution to appear, or that team is disqualified from the remainder of the event. Five substitutions per team maximum[/i]
1. clearly states game being played in Vanilla CIV and NOT WarLords
2. KC had a sub, and was in contact with TD/tournament players and could not connect; that calls for a reload (KC had not yet used any subs so they were allowed to field the first sub of the allotted 5 allowed).
3. during a tournament game, players can NOT vote for anything but a "rest and continue later," "scrap" (which of course requires majority vote as per the rules) or a full "call the game on score" - none of which were done.
3. voting to continue game for a few more turns is neither a "scrap vote," rest and continue later vote, nor a "reload vote"
4. I can't imagine what purpose voting to play a few more turns accomplished - it null and voided the entire game.
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Post by mansurji on Aug 28, 2006 9:49:24 GMT -5
I dont agree with your conclusion on the text, MMV.
As you said it, KC had a sub, 30 mn after the drop. As you can read in the rules, you even put in italic and udnerlined it, 15 minutes will be allowed for them or their substitution to appear, or that team is disqualified [/u][/b]. We were seeking a sub during the time allowed, and we sent someone to check for swissy on c4f. So we were in our right to say KC broke this rule.
So we used the 15 min rule on KC. After that, we did continue the game for a few turns then all players inside the game decided to call it on points, mostly due to lag and because the ranking was fitting to everyone. Only popov wasnt really convinced since he could have won on uastranger, on which i was waring, but he finally accepted. Remember yeeeps killed DustyDragoon in the first 15 turns, so the FUN clan played this event with 2 areas. 3rd place was barely acceptable to them, 4th is not.
All of what we've done was legal, and it has been made with the bless of Canuck soldier.
Now that this is said, and that most of the people inside the game have posted their view of the situation, there's no reason for me to post more... People that wasnt involved can still post their point of view using partial informations and brotherhood spirit, no matter, but now that there's a reclamation, we have to wait the new decision of the admins.
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Post by uastranger on Aug 28, 2006 10:18:41 GMT -5
Lol, Yes that was the way! And we did contact the TD who was at the same time the clan leader of KC. He agreed to forfeit and did not demand a reload. By the way Deyreepher got in after popuv had joined! So it was possible to connect to him! So we played and called it on score! When one team conceded in a 2v2? Arent u calling it on points then?
The thing that bothers me is that first one thing was said and then the TD's came back on their decision and voted the other way!
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Post by tommynt on Aug 28, 2006 10:40:00 GMT -5
maybe leave it like that, misstakes and missunderstandings happen and are part of human nature and results didnt decide ccc at all
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Post by Canucksoldier on Aug 28, 2006 11:14:12 GMT -5
Yes mistakes happen and that is all that happened here, we can learn from this for the future and prehaps clarify the ironman rules for the next CCC. The issue of players leaving will be a topic for discussion. For now I think people have vented enough in this thread, it will remain for another 24hrs after that I will lock it and place it in the archives, were you can still read it.
CS
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Post by mansurji on Aug 28, 2006 14:01:34 GMT -5
I dont think it's good to leave the matter as it is. There's an essential point we have to clarify
Can we trust an admin when he says white, or do we have to fear another to say black on next morning.
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Post by MMV on Aug 28, 2006 14:38:55 GMT -5
let's not go in that direction please.
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Post by Canucksoldier on Aug 28, 2006 15:41:09 GMT -5
I dont think it's good to leave the matter as it is. There's an essential point we have to clarify Can we trust an admin when he says white, or do we have to fear another to say black on next morning. If you have a problem with my performance as an Admin or the TD of this event feel free to take it up with SPM, I didn't make the call, I simply relayed the facts to Levi after I learned of them, and he made the call. I've explained this several times in 3 threads, your generalizations are getting a litte tiring at this point. I have addressed every point you have brought up, if you want you can post, point form, every issue you have that is erroding your trust in the admins and I will answer them back individually. CS
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Post by whitebull on Aug 28, 2006 15:51:13 GMT -5
A stupid question (not my first, not my last ;D ) : Why the man who took the decision didn't post on those threads ?
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Post by Canucksoldier on Aug 28, 2006 16:15:38 GMT -5
Well I can't speak for Levi, I imagine that he likely can't add much that has not been said already.
CS
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Post by venceslas on Aug 28, 2006 17:14:47 GMT -5
They made their best Mansurji, we may disagree with them, but their job is sometime hard. We need people to take a decision. So I think better forget this ironman and hope for good game in the future chris.
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Post by mansurji on Aug 28, 2006 17:53:00 GMT -5
Dont get me wrong, i am not attacking personnaly you, Cs, or Levi. It's not my style, i dont like this. As i said previously, td is an hard job, and i do respect it. You have your own life and you dont need some foolish troubles like this. I know you made your best during the event, and i presume levi did same.
I probably didnt use the good words, and i apologize about it. What i was trying to say, is that there's something wrong with the system, in my opinion. When an admin take a decision with some players, it shouldnt be possible to reverse this decision without taking the advice or even bring it to the attention of the concerned players. It's an hard surprise when you wake up, and you feel abused.
So yes, i hope we will be able to take some lesson of this situation, and that in future this kind of matter couldn t happen again.
Best regards, Mansurji.
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Post by Canucksoldier on Aug 28, 2006 18:42:18 GMT -5
Yes I understand, but normally players don't disappear right away either, I informed levi of the situation as quickly as I could and he made a decision, this only took 10-15min more, but unfortunately many players had already left, such as yourself. It is always the intent of the TD and Admins to be as clear and public about our decisions as possible.
CS
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Post by mansurji on Aug 28, 2006 19:31:23 GMT -5
Ok i understand what you said, and this close the discussion for me.
In a way to clarify it all, i left right after the game because it was 6 am, i was very tired, and i had to play the medieval event at 2 pm.
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Post by MMV on Aug 28, 2006 21:21:18 GMT -5
Ok i understand what you said, and this close the discussion for me. In a way to clarify it all, i left right after the game because it was 6 am, i was very tired, and i had to play the medieval event at 2 pm. and thus the name of the event - "Ironman"
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