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Post by SirPartyMan on Aug 27, 2006 11:49:54 GMT -5
Perhaps the IronMan doesn't translate well into CIV4. I have played the event many times in both CIV3 and CIV4 and my longest match was 26 hours (no substitute). I find that the teams most likely to win do the least subbing.
Anyway, the idea was to get beyond the 130 turn limit and play thru a variety of eras. It can be a lot of fun. Certain players seem to specialize in it and enjoy it.
We will have some discussion about it, do a poll or two, and see if it should continue as a CCC event.
Best, SPM
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Post by deyreepher on Aug 27, 2006 11:56:02 GMT -5
On the ruling of awarding KC 2nd place. It makes sense to me. When I did play, people not being able to connect to each other would see the incoming player message/being blocked by a certain player message. If anyone else's clan had been in the KC situation, they'd be screaming bloody murder if they weren't awarded their points. Especially, given the circumstances.
My only beef is with the event itself, not the ruling.
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Post by ironclad on Aug 27, 2006 12:12:13 GMT -5
Deyreeper RaY Mansurji OS Swissy KC popove FUN uastranger ..A.. Romazi MDR Eiffel LKT EBD MUD DustyDragoon OOD
there we go all fixed
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Post by knupp on Aug 27, 2006 14:08:35 GMT -5
I second Ironclads ruling.
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Post by djojoz on Aug 27, 2006 14:10:38 GMT -5
I did not know that there were rules for the TD (players) and the others for simple players?
if it does not find a sub and that it cannot be connected to the game, it must be disqualified
[Fun]ggjohanson
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Post by deyreepher on Aug 27, 2006 14:11:03 GMT -5
Only if you die thrice in your next CCC event Ironclad. You really should get an individual award for that.
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Post by Canucksoldier on Aug 27, 2006 14:43:39 GMT -5
I did not know that there were rules for the TD (players) and the others for simple players? if it does not find a sub and that it cannot be connected to the game, it must be disqualified [Fun]ggjohanson The rules are applied the same to all members of the ladder, the problem is that the rules don't and can't possibly cover every situation, that is why we rely on the experience of our TD staff to make the difficult decisions. CS
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Post by knupp on Aug 27, 2006 14:58:27 GMT -5
I'm not directly involved in this but my opinion is to stick with the TD's ruling. If every CCC event the players just decided to stop when they wanted to to rack in the most points for their clan or to go to bed or whatever it would cause chaos. Let the TD's do their jobs.
I think this is mostly a problem with the event and not the TD's ruling. If the players didn't want to quit so bad because of the hours of playing and lagging and playing a game that isn't fun this issue wouldn't have been a problem.
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Post by djojoz on Aug 27, 2006 15:04:09 GMT -5
I did not know that there were rules for the TD (players) and the others for simple players? if it does not find a sub and that it cannot be connected to the game, it must be disqualified [Fun]ggjohanson The rules are applied the same to all members of the ladder, the problem is that the rules don't and can't possibly cover every situation, that is why we rely on the experience of our TD staff to make the difficult decisions. CS I agree which the situtation is complicated but the facts are here and they are simple: he didn't have to find of sub. The other players awaited 45 min Several players had opened C4f and could speak to him on the lobby, (on the main room ) One decision had been decided and it is not respected It must be eliminated [fun]ggjohanson
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Post by Gogf on Aug 27, 2006 15:17:24 GMT -5
I think the real question is: "if you drop and, despite your best efforts, can't reconnect or find a sub that can, should you be disqualified?"
This is a very complicated question. According to the ladder rules the answer is "yes, after ten minutes have elapsed." However, I think we can all agree that connectivity in Civ4 has not been optimal, so it is entirely possible that players can get the server disconnect message and then not be able to rejoin the game at all. If you were winning -- or in second place -- it would be extremely frustrating to be disqualified through no fault of your own.
The way I interpret the current rules is that the onus of reconnecting within ten minutes is on the player who drops; whether this is fair or not is up for debate, but the current rules should be aplied to this CCC. That's my opinion on the matter, at least.
Ideally, the rules would be rewritten to include a "fair reload" clause. If a player drops, they must return to the game within ten minutes. If they cannot, they have the option of asking for a reload of the game. If they cannot enter the reload but other players can, they should either find a sub (which is usually not difficult, I might add) or be disqualified. It's unfortunate for the player who drops, but it's not fair for the others to be forced to scrap a game because of one player.
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Post by Canucksoldier on Aug 27, 2006 15:54:33 GMT -5
I agree with your post Gogf but I will add that the rules also say that someone in the game has to try and make contact with the dropped player during the 10min to ensure that he/she can connect. This is the part of the ironman issue that is complicated, Swissy did try and reconnect within the 10min but was unable, so he rebooted and tried two more times, within this time myself and conquistador also attempted to connect, and unfortunately niether myself or anyone in the game realized that swissy was unable to connect until a decission was made to continue without him, 30min later. In all it was just a series of bad events and a decision still had to be made even though everyone was tired and wanted to move on, and Levi made the best decision he could. I'm sure if he ruled that Swissy took 5th, there would hardly be a discussion right now.
CS
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Post by tommynt on Aug 27, 2006 17:08:13 GMT -5
what do all these unsporty loosers who just ruled some1 out themself want?
u cant rule some1 out by descion - u gotta contact td and the player - easy as that - u broke several rules and complain afterwards - wtf
If it was my descision i d rule all players left in game out and give swissy scores of the place when he dropped. Guys who obviously show no sportmanship deserve no points imo
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Post by whitebull on Aug 27, 2006 17:23:07 GMT -5
what do all these unsporty loosers who just ruled some1 out themself want? u cant rule some1 out by descion - u gotta contact td and the player - easy as that - u broke several rules and complain afterwards - wtf If it was my descision i d rule all players left in game out and give swissy scores of the place when he dropped. Guys who obviously show no sportmanship deserve no points imo hum u say it cause u angry
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Post by tommynt on Aug 27, 2006 17:25:17 GMT -5
no i wasnt involved at all
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Post by MookieNJ on Aug 27, 2006 18:46:13 GMT -5
My problem with this Ironman situation is simple:
If a player is blocking another player from rejoining, he or she will receive a pop up message from the game saying that an incoming player has failed to connect to him or her. It is then that player's responsibility to speak up and let everyone know what the situation is. I was listening in on the whole situation on TS with Dey, and nobody in the game knew that Swissy was trying to reconnect for 45 minutes because one player kept his or her mouth shut and simply ignored the warnings that Swissy could not connect. That is really poor in my opinion.
Even though my clan would have finished 4th and received points if Swissy were disqualified, I feel that there is no reason why he should be. He made every attempt to get back into the game, and because a blocking player did not let anyone know that he or she was currently a bad peer, Swissy was never able to re-enter the game.
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Post by deyreepher on Aug 27, 2006 19:01:35 GMT -5
he didn't have to find of sub. The other players awaited 45 min Several players had opened C4f and could speak to him on the lobby, (on the main room ) One decision had been decided and it is not respected It must be eliminated [fun]ggjohanson Like I said, he was available. Yes, we did wait 45 min. I believe I was the only player on c4f and I was in the WL lobby not the vanilla civ lobby. If your clanmate had been jacked out of points like Swissy would have, you would be screaming bloody murder, given the circumstances and what we know about how connecting error messages work.
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Post by deyreepher on Aug 27, 2006 19:04:34 GMT -5
what do all these unsporty loosers who just ruled some1 out themself want? u cant rule some1 out by descion - u gotta contact td and the player - easy as that - u broke several rules and complain afterwards - wtf If it was my descision i d rule all players left in game out and give swissy scores of the place when he dropped. Guys who obviously show no sportmanship deserve no points imo We followed all the rules, read the damn posts carefully. The only problem we had was, not one person had all the info on what was going down until after the event was over. And Swissy got his points, which most people agree to. Stop trying to create a nuts storm out of a fart. This should be Germania's favourite event....the IronSub. (cheap shot, but that post just ticked me off).
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Post by knupp on Aug 27, 2006 19:16:07 GMT -5
What are you implying dey? Where would you ever get the idea germ needs subs a lot.
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Post by deyreepher on Aug 27, 2006 19:17:06 GMT -5
Since CCC 33, I've subbed in more times for Germania than I've played in new games.....
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Post by uastranger on Aug 27, 2006 20:35:59 GMT -5
Argh, guess some ppl didnt read my post in the other part of the forum!!!
And here again, its claimed i have bad sportsmanship! This does piss me off. So wil just copy the rest in ! Very simple!
uastranger-> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is crap!! First of all I totally do not agree with the bad ruling of the TD's! And secondly I don't like it at all that ppl are now saying i was unfair to KC_SWISSY.
He dropped on a key attack between number one and me! I had the space parts going and was going to get space victory (only i had a good shot at it) some time soon! Mansurji attacked me with all his units. And i was surviving and killing his units like crazy! KC_swissy was just expanding like crazy so he would pass number get high in points. He had just climbed into second with a 50 point difference (higher then me then). The rest of the game he had been at the bottom. This was the situation in the game!
So when he dropped, I first waited 15 min and checked the lobby on both vanilla and warlords. Didn't see anybody! Then ppl started saying they wanted to call it. At first i didn't agree because i wanted to play on. But ppl where really fed up with the lag (mostly at the Time created by kC_swissy) and drops, me including. But first i tried to find KC members that could sub for Swissy. I posted in both lobbies and contacted Conquistador. And he said he was trying to connect, and was blocked on popov. I did not see Swissy in the lobby at any time. Thus we wait another ten minutes. Then i contacted Levi to ask him if he could do anything! He heard me out and didn't know what to do. So i went to "cannuck" and suggested a reload. "cannuck" then told me that he wouldn't mind forfeiting so the game could go on. Other ppl where trying to get a solution 2!
So i went back to the guys in the game and told them this. They all wanted to call it then. So i said; ok, we will play 1 or 2 rounds and then call it! Which was risky because i could loose a city in the attack. So we played two turns and i defended the attack. And we called it. So then we said good game and everybody was happy the game was finally over. (i was second)
So some deyreepher went to report the standings to the TD's. I was still in the game waiting for confirmation, while the rest left. Then all out of the blue, i got told that the TD's where gonna call it on points at the time KC_swissy dropped! Because he had just showed up in the lobby and had said he tried to connect plenty of times. Well my question is why the heck did nobody know he was their. Nor the TD's who knew he had dropped and neither his clan mates. And why the heck didn't he or anybody who knew tell us in those 40+ minutes! So then i told the TD's to get the rest back in the game or reload. But they said that the rest of the players left. So i said wel there are enough other clan members available. But all i got back was the joke; if i wanted to do a restart tomortow while the rest was playing the other events!
This is just gay! When u spend 16 hours in a game u don't need this crap! --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Then i get told that this is more fair and i want to complain i should press official charges
so i say --> maybe this sounds familiar: [5:22:35] [C4PAdmin]CanuckSoldier_c4f-tk : yes we forfeit, I could try for a reload since it's a techncal problem [5:22:44] [C4PAdmin]CanuckSoldier_c4f-tk : but I don't want to hold the game up
And lol , what this about official channels . Its supposed to be a fun and competitve event. And i had fun starting the game , getting nukes, and nuking the nuts out of ppl and racing to victory!
No fun in seeking official channels! Hidding behind official channels ??
Well, Im going to let this rest. I showed my disaprovement and dont want to waste any more words on it. I regret it had to go like this.
---------------------------------------------------- So u can read that i did try to handle it fairly! And i did look in the lobbies and that i did speak to kc clan members! What are u supposed to do after waiting that long? After playing for 16 hours? After it being 6 am in the morning? Is this my fault?
How long do u wait in a normal game for someone to connect?
And if u are trying to rejoin and fail twice dont u type something in the lobby?
And in defense of the french dude! How could he see the difference between failure to connect messages of one of the kc subs and swissy himself? Because i posted in the games chat that the subs could n't connect. Oh and by the way, i have plenty of screen shots! ---- Afterall i think the event is still fun and i know othe ppl did too. Even mansurji who got his ass nuked and his 28 artillery 40 tanks and 10 to 20 gunships killed at my door:) But still remained first !
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