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Post by Canucksoldier on May 27, 2007 0:31:39 GMT -5
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Post by holocanthe on May 27, 2007 6:23:06 GMT -5
We (LKT) have trying, it isn't good idea : prod is too slowly, 3 kings, why ?? Colon are cheaper Colony no utility etc etc
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moineau
Warrior
Administrator
Posts: 330
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Post by moineau on May 27, 2007 6:23:12 GMT -5
We tested the future regicide and there is lot of problems: First it is very very very very slow, all cost too much (a cruise cost 540 shield!!!!, it took me 10 turn to have the chance to pay it!!!). Settler are too many cheap and worker work too many slow and it does that colony are not used because it is faster to do a settler on than a colony. Lose one king = lose the game is a good idea, i love it, as in civ3, but why have 3 kings then??
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Post by Canucksoldier on May 27, 2007 12:30:40 GMT -5
Well one reason why I propose to put it into the CCC was to get feedback on this mod that seemed to have stalled I'll point Primax to this thread and have him address the points you bring up. CS
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Post by patrick469 on May 27, 2007 16:54:52 GMT -5
Moineau and Holo are right, this Mod can't be played for the next CCC unless changes. 1. The speed is really slow, it's better to use the quick one. 2. There are three Kings, ok... But when one die your out of the game! So why we need three kings if we can die when we lose only one of them? ;D 3. The Cruise Missile has a big problem: it can't kill. As you can see on this screen I destroyed the Capital of Gandhi but the city is still there... And after one turn he could build a Infantry from the ruins! It's the same problem to kill the king... You destroy the unit (you can't see it any more) but the player is still alive?!! 4. The airbase has also a problem. When somebody takes your airbase he has it... But it isn't a airbase any more, it's a city! A religion can also appear in a airbase and you can also spread your religion to it. There're the same prob with the colony. I hope they will quickly fix the bugs.
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Post by Canucksoldier on May 27, 2007 18:57:24 GMT -5
Moineau and Holo are right, this Mod can't be played for the next CCC unless changes. 1. The speed is really slow, it's better to use the quick one. 2. There are three Kings, ok... But when one die your out of the game! So why we need three kings if we can die when we lose only one of them? ;D 3. The Cruise Missile has a big problem: it can't kill. As you can see on this screen I destroyed the Capital of Gandhi but the city is still there... And after one turn he could build a Infantry from the ruins! It's the same problem to kill the king... You destroy the unit (you can't see it any more) but the player is still alive?!! 4. The airbase has also a problem. When somebody takes your airbase he has it... But it isn't a airbase any more, it's a city! A religion can also appear in a airbase and you can also spread your religion to it. There're the same prob with the colony. I hope they will quickly fix the bugs. 1. Well that was a balance issue, I'm sure we can increase the speed some, or more likely you mean the overall cost of stuff in the game, we did make the game overall more expensive to stop future from being a rush game, but we obviously went a little to far and we can try and find the right balance. 2. 3 Kings?...definitely a bug, and will be fixed. 3. Well cruise missles are air weapons and like them all it can't kill, if we want them to kill we can do that but I'd like to have a wide consenus before we do that. 4. Looks like we have a bug linking the king unit and with a "1 city elim" code. Were you playing with city elim on? because by default taking a city won't kill a civ, but being able to build units from a dead city is for sure a bug we need to fix. 5. Ok airbases should not be turned into cities when captured,, bug. Do we even want airbases to be able to be captured in the first place? Or should they be autorazed? 6. Yes airbases and colonies shouldn't have religion spread to them, bug. But remember that airbases and colonies are really hacks atm, but I'm sure Primax can fix the issues. 7. We can increase the cost of settlers to make the worker/colony more cost effective. The point of colonies is just to get a resource with out risking a city that will count against your city elim count. CS
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[KC]Bopper
Worker
The Knight Who Says 'Giddy-Up!'
Posts: 136
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Post by [KC]Bopper on May 28, 2007 0:18:34 GMT -5
Re the UQC: I'd still like to see this played as an OCC game, but maybe on a different map than another Inland Sea version. For extreme battles it's kinda fun on a large HB Lakes map. For early expansion and some cool later era battles it's cool on the HB Islands map. Many more people have the UQC mod running now so it would be nice to get creative with the settings.
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Post by toratoratora on May 28, 2007 2:13:19 GMT -5
Re the UQC: I'd still like to see this played as an OCC game, but maybe on a different map than another Inland Sea version. For extreme battles it's kinda fun on a large HB Lakes map. For early expansion and some cool later era battles it's cool on the HB Islands map. Many more people have the UQC mod running now so it would be nice to get creative with the settings. HB TBG V3 good map for UQC perhaps!
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Post by patrick469 on May 28, 2007 9:03:54 GMT -5
3. I thought the Cruise Missile was like the Civ3 one, and the civ3 one can kill units (the king) but can't take a city, it's right. Here the Cruise Missile can kill units but if it kills a king the player doesn't lose, he hasn't anymore his king but he's still alive. So it's easy to win a game, you just have to kill your King against a Cruise Missile. 4. No I wasn't playing with the city elim on, I was playing with the Regicide and I killed the Gandhi's King with a Cruise Missile. I don't know if you destroy a city with a Cruise Missile the game counts it or not.
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Post by Canucksoldier on May 28, 2007 11:18:51 GMT -5
3. I thought the Cruise Missile was like the Civ3 one, and the civ3 one can kill units (the king) but can't take a city, it's right. Here the Cruise Missile can kill units but if it kills a king the player doesn't lose, he hasn't anymore his king but he's still alive. So it's easy to win a game, you just have to kill your King against a Cruise Missile. 4. No I wasn't playing with the city elim on, I was playing with the Regicide and I killed the Gandhi's King with a Cruise Missile. I don't know if you destroy a city with a Cruise Missile the game counts it or not. Ok sounds like that is an unintended bug, a dead King should kill the civ no matter what kills it. CS
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Post by primax on May 29, 2007 0:44:46 GMT -5
Firstly, thanks all for the comments. I have been having computer troubles and now is the first I saw them.
Most of these bugs were supposed to be fixed. I think I may have accidently included old code in one of the updates.
production was slowed becaused it was mentioned it was too fast in the regicide thread. I will make this faster.
3 kings is a bug. airbase becoming a city after raze is also a bug. cruise was supposed to kill.
I think the regicide should be held off till the next CCC while I work on a stable version.
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Post by Canucksoldier on May 29, 2007 1:35:41 GMT -5
Thanks Primax, we still have some time before the next CCC, if you get a new version up before then, then we can test it. I have the luxury of time for now, and it takes nothing to change the Friday future back to the default, for now we will work on the assumption that you will pull off a miracle for us And at the very least this mod needs solid testing to get ready for what ever CCC it is used in. CS
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Post by tommynt on May 29, 2007 1:49:35 GMT -5
I dont think that conlonies is a MUST HAVE to get a bit of civ3 future feeling back I think most important issue in creating a mod where u start with 1 seetler and 1 worker or so and build up your empire in a few turns - which was just the most fun to do The best players where able to have nukes in about turn 45-50 when being able to build up "peaceful" without ruhing or being rushed. Balacning unit and city building costs in the way that u can be about same fast d be great. - so balance shield costs more in the way that u think nukes can be made turn 70 - players ll allways be faster as u think they are I think a nerf of chopping might also be a good idea - with every1 picking buerocracy as starting gov a gain 30 shields right away whats really kinda lot - also yes cruise 540 seems a bit expansive
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ot4e
Settler
Posts: 98
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Post by ot4e on May 29, 2007 22:59:43 GMT -5
I think it is good practice to try moded events in COT competitions or something like that. It will show how pupular innovation is. At least these changes totally disguise our team and most admins also.
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Post by Canucksoldier on May 31, 2007 0:59:03 GMT -5
I think it is good practice to try moded events in COT competitions or something like that. It will show how pupular innovation is. At least these changes totally disguise our team and most admins also. Well maybe you would like to offer your suggestions as well as your criticisms, other than some bugs and balance issues the whole aim of this mod is to make Civ4 future games interesting and exciting the same way they was in C3C. CS
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ot4e
Settler
Posts: 98
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Post by ot4e on May 31, 2007 8:34:17 GMT -5
I suggest to make test-competitions with each mod you want to try before adding it to the most official championship. And you must be sure that it will be popular enough before replacing well-proved events in ccc.
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Post by Lestat on May 31, 2007 9:00:40 GMT -5
IMHO, CS u cant forcing people to play wot u think is good to play. People will alone find mods or game type to play. This ladder have those groups : 1. Only anc Cton players 2. Only teamer players 3. Mixed point 1 and 2 but little 4. OCC players, differenciation with map, era, mod. 5. Alsoe many ladder member playing non ladder games eg. earth, ffa, teamers.
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Post by Canucksoldier on May 31, 2007 9:23:11 GMT -5
I suggest to make test-competitions with each mod you want to try before adding it to the most official championship. And you must be sure that it will be popular enough before replacing well-proved events in ccc. Well unfortunately ladderites tend to be a little slow to adopt new things, this mod has been in the mods section for 2 months now with little testing going on. We stated on the last CCC that we would seriously look at this mod for the next CCC. And it seems that this is the only way to get some serious testing done on the mod. As soon as primax fixes the bugs and balance issues and has his next version, I'd be glad to have Levi use this in a COT, but I couldn't wait for that to get some testing done. CS
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Post by Canucksoldier on May 31, 2007 9:28:19 GMT -5
IMHO, CS u cant forcing people to play wot u think is good to play. People will alone find mods or game type to play. This ladder have those groups : 1. Only anc Cton players 2. Only teamer players 3. Mixed point 1 and 2 but little 4. OCC players, differenciation with map, era, mod. 5. Alsoe many ladder member playing non ladder games eg. earth, ffa, teamers. Well we will agree to disagree Lestat, UQC is getting very popular now and it was hardly played at all before we put it on the CCC roster. Players on the ladder don't know what mods are like if they don't play them atleast once, it's sort of like when your kids say they don't like food they have never tried. If for some reason people hate FRM then we will drop it, but we can't say that until we try it. And the clans and there members are the core of the ladder, so getting them to try things via a CCC is a key way to introduce new mods to the ladder population as a whole. CS
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Post by toratoratora on May 31, 2007 9:32:24 GMT -5
Once BTS comes out i dont see the Point of using any more Mods in the CCC Change a few maps/games perhaps do Cton Killer game or a Ironman on Huge Earth map
Just dont see the point of using Mods that most people on the ladder never actually play!
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