|
Post by deyreepher on Jun 2, 2007 9:32:16 GMT -5
I give up. Never Quit, Never Press Enter
|
|
|
Post by Tony on Jun 2, 2007 17:28:33 GMT -5
Instead of trying to teach him how to play, why dont you play him?
Surely this is an easy way to test whose strats are better etc.
|
|
|
Post by knupp on Jun 2, 2007 20:12:01 GMT -5
I'm not trying to teach anybody how to play. All I was saying that slaving isn't a "WIN" buttom like he tried to say, and since the best thing he could come up with when I tried to prove my point was that he created the Civ4 rush and then continued to try to mock RaY when this conversation had nothing to do with RaY, means I'm not going to try to convince somebody something when they can't even defend their own beliefs.
|
|
|
Post by Tony on Jun 2, 2007 22:29:53 GMT -5
Knup maybe you are skipping posts or you brain only processes them selectively but I think youll find tommy was offering his opinion on what a potential modder could do to make future more exciting, with no reference to any clan. Then the thread was taken on a total tangent my matalian with a pot shot, which is fine, but … Why is it every time someone in RAY says something the rest of them jump right on the bandwagon? I can appreciate clan loyalty, but you guys are not married to each other! It seems to me you have got a little too big for your boots since your future CCC kill, so much so you feel you have the right to make patronizing posts – I don’t recall any until recently. I personally find the whole situation a little embarrassing, the fact that you have to advertise the kill so much, and don’t say you didn’t because I was in the lobby that night. In all honesty I’m glad RAY, and other clans, are still passionate about the game, its what keeps the ladder alive and makes finding games easier. But the game is 2 years old and some people don’t play it like they did once upon a time (In fact i would say 70% of the regular players are differant)… During its golden age, when the game was fresh and exciting tommy was, IMO, a lot better then the rest of the ladder. So you teaching him what slavery does? You trying to tell him rushing is a viable option?
|
|
|
Post by eiffel on Jun 3, 2007 5:43:52 GMT -5
Tommy is just pointing another way of playing future : 1 settler, no starting units with a non-revealed map and smaller plane scouting area. I think it would bring much more excitement to this event. Combined with the mod implementing king and played in fractal/islands/continents, i agree it would be a fun game.
In civ3 future, the rush was existing too, just not with starting units at turn 1... i remember the portugal rush, it was terrible ;D
Btw, I don't understand the angry reactions to what he proposed, there isn't one way to play a game like Civ4... or at least, there should be only one way in a game you can customize. And this thread is about customizing...
|
|
|
Post by tommynt on Jun 3, 2007 6:33:17 GMT -5
Slaving isnt really a 1win button but I guess thats it a bit more powerful then it was supposed to be imo - espacially in multiplayer. This statement isnt true for every game situation!
And thx tony for your lovly flowers but there was no time when I was far better then other players. I have allways been very hard to beat in 1-1 and in epics but in normal teamers I have never been much better or better at all then the rest of players playing regularly.
|
|
|
Post by tommynt on Jun 3, 2007 6:35:55 GMT -5
oh ya and thx Eiffel u said what I wanted to say in much more clear words
|
|
|
Post by knupp on Jun 3, 2007 8:23:04 GMT -5
Just ignore what Metallian says. He jumps into a thread every so often to talk smack. What I said had nothing to do with him, and I wasn't reacting angrily. I just don't agree that slavery is the automatic win button, which has nothing to do with future at all.
In regards to future. I'd be glad to try it with one settler. I rememeber in Civ3 I would play nonladder future games and pick zulu. People wouldn't build units first and I could get the 2 move UU over to them really quick and kill them. It was priceless killing people in future with an ancient unit. ;D
However I don't think the future mod should increase the costs of units to stop rushing. Rushing is part of the game, and it is a no bigger part of it in future than any other era. Why try to fix something that's not broken?
|
|
|
Post by Canucksoldier on Jun 3, 2007 17:09:57 GMT -5
Yes but future is the only era that you do not have to tech and can buy units to rush. Does this unbalance the game? That is really upto us to decide. The original thread on this mod only had a few contributors and the result is from there input. If you want your 2 cents taken into account i would suggest that everyone goto the FRM thread(in t he mods section) and help us develop something that C4P wants for a alternative Future game. I would prefer to do this only once and get it right, Primax is volunteering his free time and I'd prefer not to waste it making knee jerk changes several times.
CS
|
|
|
Post by tommynt on Jun 4, 2007 1:51:00 GMT -5
If u start with 0 gold and a size 1 city buying units wont be as powerful as with 300 starting gold and huge cities with lot of improvements. Some things I think which could balance buying, choping and producing: - decrease power of buerocracy - 25% is good enough 50%+ makes buero so powerful that it s only way to go - increase choping time by x3 or x4, maybe decrease hammers u get from choping - if possible reduce gold production in cap slightly so that it s after the buero modifier where it is without buero modifier u get something like 10 free gold - with buero it s 15 gold - decrease starting gold to 7 and it s at 10 again as people will pick buero anyway - if possible make craters return or give bombers a (small) chance to create atomic polution - bombing tiles gotta be worth it - decrease scouting sight (not movement or they get useless) of flighters by a lot, dont give bombers ability to scout at all - give us the fight for ressources back, the resourcless best unit u can build should be way weaker and not a 2 movement unit, but still good at city defending - maybe decrease the number of resources overall and again increase their influence on war - oh well missles were great fun, getting them into the game unbugged and balanced is proly biggest problem - give dem nations their interesting uus and increase costs of units as explorers, no easy city defending - ,make the impi rush possible
|
|
|
Post by cryptococcus on Jun 4, 2007 4:17:27 GMT -5
Where is speaker?
|
|
|
Post by toratoratora on Jun 4, 2007 7:20:34 GMT -5
Where is speaker? Whos he
|
|
|
Post by mrgametheory on Jun 4, 2007 21:02:33 GMT -5
Before these eyes all of your jutsu are worthless....
|
|
|
Post by MookieNJ on Jun 4, 2007 23:27:42 GMT -5
Where is speaker? He was away for work and now he is away on vacation.
|
|
|
Post by knupp on Jun 5, 2007 16:27:21 GMT -5
True. You also didn't have to tech in Civ3 Future. Sure people start with gold which they can use to buy units, but you have that exact same option. Also I think it should be pointed out that 99% of the time in modern you have your tech off to buy units the entire game and also start with gold, and the first 20-30 turns in industrial most people have their tech off to buy units also. Nobody complains about those eras. It's very rare that people rush by buying units on Turn 1 instead of expanding, so I don't think it's an issue anyways.
Thanks for pointing out that other thread, I'll definitely post in there. And thank you Primax also, for volunteering your time trying to put this mod together.
|
|
|
Post by ironclad on Jun 5, 2007 17:01:58 GMT -5
Before these eyes all of your jutsu are worthless.... Naruto.. Itachi.. Sharingan..
|
|
|
Post by knupp on Jun 5, 2007 17:23:39 GMT -5
What's you reasoning? I don't like the idea of changing core game mechanics at all, especially without just reasoning behind it. Hm. So make chopping a forest 3 or 4 turns? So you want future to be ancient? It isn't, that's why people play it. Again why? If you want a change, you have to at least give some points as to why you want that change. Strengthen the bomber and then weaken it? Bombers should never leave nuclear waste behind, though craters isn't all that bad an idea. I'd suggest that a crater be created when you bomb a tile that has no improvements on it. No oil? Forget about planes or modern armors. No aluminum? Forget about stealth bombers or modern armor. Who says there is no fight for resources. If you weaken the resourceless unit then you might as well quit if you don't start with aluminum and oil. You will get run over by modern armors and stealth bombers. Most people complain about not getting resources and how the game is unfair, why make it more so? Such as what? A modder would need some help with ideas to accomplish that. BTS What nations? What uu's?
|
|
|
Post by Gogf on Jun 5, 2007 17:40:43 GMT -5
I'm with Knupp. If people wanted to play ancient Civ4 or future Civ3, that's exactly what they would play. The only huge problem with Civ4 future is that the reconnaissance of bombers is too powerful. If we're going to make a future mod, let's fix the problem not fundamentally change the game.
If we want to give exposure to a new mod by including it in the CCC, can we please do that by adding an extra event instead of by replacing one that it barely resembles?
|
|
|
Post by tommynt on Jun 6, 2007 2:34:36 GMT -5
Knupp why not read careful before critisizing, like that u look kinda dumb - u aint dumb are u?
My 1. sentence is: Some things I think which could balance buying, choping and producing: So if u ask for reasons behind the stuff I suggested - it s balance between different aspects of game.
ATM every1 (at least 90%) use Buero in every era where it s available - so it gotta be (too) powerful or people would not allways pick it - by making Bureo less powerful other civics are more likly to be choosen. Increase choping time - again just to get a balance between different different possibilities to produce. Atm I see people choping every f**king tree on whole planet civ4 - sure it gives u superfast a nutsload of shields - If choping take longer the player have to think before choping - Is it really worth it? not just CHOP IT!
I ll not go into every phrase again - all my suggestions are just made for more diversity in the game. Atm the concept which got developed 2 years ago - chop mass armies of workers to be possible to chop even more woods to get huge armies is still the main "strategy" to go. If there are no woods left - slave nuts outa your people or buy in late eras. Pls dont try to tell me that u play different to that.
Oh well 1 last thing:
U really look dumb there Knupp - I talk about Impi and u ask whats an uu ... a impi is a 2 movement uu which can be produced with few shields - it lacks power but could be used for surprise attacks
|
|
|
Post by cryptococcus on Jun 6, 2007 5:32:30 GMT -5
WHy would you use mods in the first place with all the connection issues ccc currently runs into? Half the people on the ladder can't even figure out how to use a mod.
|
|