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Post by Canucksoldier on Apr 28, 2007 3:54:47 GMT -5
This is the thread to comment on this CCC, and propose more ideas for future CCC's. The Admin/TD team has spent a fair bit of time discussing the changes to this CCC freshen some of the events, while keeping the matches fair, feel free to comment, we still have 2 weeks to fine tune this event and your feedback plays a key role in this.
CS
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moineau
Warrior
Administrator
Posts: 330
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Post by moineau on Apr 28, 2007 4:17:47 GMT -5
Wow planning 3 weeks before the ccc that"s so great to discuss about it, thanks you a lot CS. You put balanced for the ironman and his qualif but i think Ironman is a building game and balanced is more a figting map, i think ring/inland/hub/wheel are better for it (the qualif and the ironman). You put HB map on indus/modern/occ ren, i think this map erase a good part of civ: the exciting ressource's search. Some people said they liked the random part of civ, like on civ3, and i am agree with them Same for miror map on classical But good job CS
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Post by holocanthe on Apr 28, 2007 4:47:17 GMT -5
3 weeks before great But, Ren friday, it isn't good. For euro = 9 players who will not be able to sleep the friday saturday night And, we will have to play saturday morning . event 1 era random event 12 era random too (and map) Really ?
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Post by TheClash on Apr 28, 2007 5:23:40 GMT -5
reg. # 8: medium timer for an OCC is to slow. Pls stick to blazing cause the Ultra Quick doesnt make game faster it makes only the teching faster.
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moineau
Warrior
Administrator
Posts: 330
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Post by moineau on Apr 28, 2007 5:33:32 GMT -5
Hm no we tried it and blazing timer is very very fast and fast timer seems to be better
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Post by toratoratora on Apr 28, 2007 5:38:09 GMT -5
I agree Blazing is ok for UQC OCC fast is for slow people and Lestat
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moineau
Warrior
Administrator
Posts: 330
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Post by moineau on Apr 28, 2007 5:39:17 GMT -5
lol poor lestat
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Post by charliebrownparker on Apr 28, 2007 5:46:24 GMT -5
Ok CS for all those changes except for ironman Playing this event on balanced map is a mess. Please change it for something more "balanced"
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Post by MookieNJ on Apr 28, 2007 12:19:04 GMT -5
RE: Medieval Teamer Map Change
I have played a lot of Medieval games on the Balanced map lately and I don't think this is a very good map for this event. On this map script, teams are not guaranteed to start together. Also, you often start extremely close to players on the other team. For example, you see two Irons next to each other, your resource is in the other player's capital, etc. In an era such as Medieval, this causes major problems because you start with two Settlers. Having no idea where the other team is located, you could walk your Settler right next to the other team and get completely screwed.
I think Inland Sea was the perfect map for the Medieval event and I see no reason for it to be changed. It allows for the most variety in strategy, from triple teaming, double teaming, playing defense, or naval attacks. Maps like balanced promote a "farm and slave" strategy rather than a truly "balanced" development and military strategy.
RE: Classical Teamer Map Changes
Kind of funny that, as much as I dislike the Balanced map for Medieval, I love it for Classical. Again, I see no reason to make a change here, although at this point I have no opinion one way or the other because I have done no testing of these settings. Playtesting will be interesting for sure ...
RE: Balanced Map In General
One final problem I have seen with this map -- the starts can be *very* unbalanced. A recent game we played had one team start along the southern coast and the other team start just north of them. The northern team controlled about 80% of the map while the southern team controlled about 20% of the map. How is this a fun or fair game?
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Post by Canucksoldier on Apr 28, 2007 12:23:05 GMT -5
reg. # 8: medium timer for an OCC is to slow. Pls stick to blazing cause the Ultra Quick doesnt make game faster it makes only the teching faster. It also makes units cheaper and therefore there will likely be alot more units to manage each turn, but I'll take the middle ground and change it to fast. CS
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Post by Canucksoldier on Apr 28, 2007 12:28:54 GMT -5
3 weeks before great But, Ren friday, it isn't good. For euro = 9 players who will not be able to sleep the friday saturday night And, we will have to play saturday morning . event 1 era random event 12 era random too (and map) Really ? Yes I realize that this will mean more late nights for euros but we can't have everything, it was a major issue last CCC that there were to many events on Sat and Fri night was light by comparison. CS
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Post by Canucksoldier on Apr 28, 2007 12:33:02 GMT -5
Ok CS for all those changes except for ironman Playing this event on balanced map is a mess. Please change it for something more "balanced" Could you be more specific? The reason I went to balanced is that the old hub/wheel maps are very symmetrical and don't allow for any sort of dynamic warfare. You can lose the ironman for no other reason than that some other player died on the other side of the map and only the close players can take advantage of the free land. Balanced is my solution to that, a map that will mean a very asymmetrical battlefield. CS
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Post by penny on Apr 28, 2007 12:38:48 GMT -5
Hi all, Hi CS, and thanks (congrats) for trying new stuff, I had the chance to try th LD Mirror Inland Sea map, it really is a good choice I believe. The very reason of this post is to back up the talks of Mookie, Charlie, and Moineau : Balanced map is....Unbalanced. I always though Classical was sometimes unfair, and I would be sad to have to play it in Medieval, but I think it would be non-sense for the Ironman. As Moineau said, any of those map (Ring, Hub, Wheel) (I played once each at CCC's it was always good) would be good, but balanced just doesn't seem fair enough. Also, the qualif should be played on that kind of map too, I really really don't want to see a good player getting a good civ (let's say Zulu) cross the map, and kill his very opponent which had less luck on the land/civ. BTW, In that sense, I always though that the Ironman should be played Anonymous, just like the CTON. Could you be more specific? The reason I went to balanced is that the old hub/wheel maps are very symmetrical and don't allow for any sort of dynamic warfare. You can lose the ironman for no other reason than that some other player died on the other side of the map and only the close players can take advantage of the free land. Balanced is my solution to that, a map that will mean a very asymmetrical battlefield. CS Yeah, I understand your point, that's the reason why we dropped out the Hub map last time, and moved to Ring. Maybe Wheel allows a little more possibilities with the path in the center, and the multiple seas.
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Post by Canucksoldier on Apr 28, 2007 12:41:26 GMT -5
RE: Medieval Teamer Map Change I have played a lot of Medieval games on the Balanced map lately and I don't think this is a very good map for this event. On this map script, teams are not guaranteed to start together. Also, you often start extremely close to players on the other team. For example, you see two Irons next to each other, your resource is in the other player's capital, etc. In an era such as Medieval, this causes major problems because you start with two Settlers. Having no idea where the other team is located, you could walk your Settler right next to the other team and get completely screwed. I think Inland Sea was the perfect map for the Medieval event and I see no reason for it to be changed. It allows for the most variety in strategy, from triple teaming, double teaming, playing defense, or naval attacks. Maps like balanced promote a "farm and slave" strategy rather than a truly "balanced" development and military strategy. RE: Classical Teamer Map Changes Kind of funny that, as much as I dislike the Balanced map for Medieval, I love it for Classical. Again, I see no reason to make a change here, although at this point I have no opinion one way or the other because I have done no testing of these settings. Playtesting will be interesting for sure ... RE: Balanced Map In General One final problem I have seen with this map -- the starts can be *very* unbalanced. A recent game we played had one team start along the southern coast and the other team start just north of them. The northern team controlled about 80% of the map while the southern team controlled about 20% of the map. How is this a fun or fair game? I'm going to wait for more feedback on the Med teamer before making any changes and the mirror map for classical tested fine for me but I'll keep Balanced as an option. CS
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Post by charliebrownparker on Apr 28, 2007 15:14:37 GMT -5
Ok CS for all those changes except for ironman Playing this event on balanced map is a mess. Please change it for something more "balanced" Could you be more specific? The reason I went to balanced is that the old hub/wheel maps are very symmetrical and don't allow for any sort of dynamic warfare. You can lose the ironman for no other reason than that some other player died on the other side of the map and only the close players can take advantage of the free land. Balanced is my solution to that, a map that will mean a very asymmetrical battlefield. CS First comment : Did you already played a FFA balanced?? Some civ can start alone in a corner of map, 3 civs others 6 tittles far from each over. For example i played such a game few hours ago. I started with horses on my land. Result : i killed my two neighbourgs with 4 chariots, they only had warriors for first one and 1 archer for second. If you need screen i can provide it to you. Second comment : We trained on classical mirror cylindrical. This is totally stupid. Opponents most of time starts between 2 and 4 tittles far. This map is not made for a teamer. Please try it without cylindrical wrap on and it would be better. I agree to have some changes on CCC map and events but before ruling about it please try those map. If you need some beta tester do not hesitate to ask.
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Post by Canucksoldier on Apr 28, 2007 17:10:50 GMT -5
Could you be more specific? The reason I went to balanced is that the old hub/wheel maps are very symmetrical and don't allow for any sort of dynamic warfare. You can lose the ironman for no other reason than that some other player died on the other side of the map and only the close players can take advantage of the free land. Balanced is my solution to that, a map that will mean a very asymmetrical battlefield. CS First comment : Did you already played a FFA balanced?? Some civ can start alone in a corner of map, 3 civs others 6 tittles far from each over. For example i played such a game few hours ago. I started with horses on my land. Result : i killed my two neighbourgs with 4 chariots, they only had warriors for first one and 1 archer for second. If you need screen i can provide it to you. Second comment : We trained on classical mirror cylindrical. This is totally stupid. Opponents most of time starts between 2 and 4 tittles far. This map is not made for a teamer. Please try it without cylindrical wrap on and it would be better. I agree to have some changes on CCC map and events but before ruling about it please try those map. If you need some beta tester do not hesitate to ask. The Admin team did test 90% of the changes and had a week of internal discussion even before I posted this for the ladder. But getting feedback is why this thread is here. I'm fine with removing cylindrical wrap on the classical mirror. And I think I'll put a poll up on the ironman map, since I have the time. CS
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Post by MookieNJ on Apr 28, 2007 18:38:00 GMT -5
If you want to get more access to opposing players in the Ironman, you could play a good epic map like Ring and put on Cylindrical Wrap. That way you'll have a lot of chances to boat players as well as land options against your neighbors.
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Post by MookieNJ on Apr 28, 2007 21:16:02 GMT -5
RE: Event 6 Industrial Map Change Why did this event get changed to Wheel? It took 6+ months to finally figure out that Ring was the best map to use here, and now it's just getting changed for the sake of making a change?
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Post by charliebrownparker on Apr 28, 2007 21:23:18 GMT -5
I agree with Mookie. Indus on wheel will make this event much more longer than it already is. If you want make it wheel please add cylindrical. It would help to reduce game lenght.
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Post by Death to ALL on Apr 28, 2007 21:32:05 GMT -5
I agree with Mookie. Indus on wheel will make this event much more longer than it already is. If you want make it wheel please add cylindrical. It would help to reduce game lenght. Cylindrical is on for that event. We also cut 10 turns off each match to shorten it.
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