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Post by Canucksoldier on Apr 9, 2007 14:36:42 GMT -5
I've been asked by the developers for the top 10 items that need fixed in MP, a poll wouldn't have been good for this so I'm just asking for your help.
So please anyone that is going to reply please make a list from 1-10 in order of priority, you can comment/justify each one if you want, but please make sure hat your list is specific and not vague.
Since we are the people complaining that MP is broken this is your chance to tell them how it is broken.
CS
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Post by prettyhatemachine on Apr 9, 2007 15:07:57 GMT -5
oooh very pretty!!!! i write very careful. prettys top 10
1* Provide host launch option to HIDE THE SCORES and DISABLE THE INFO TAB. - u have no idea how much fun u can have in a game without scores. Why should you know exact status of your neighbours and indeed world without recon or espionage?
2*Vote screen needs a majority or even players -1 vote enabled. - many games is ruin because one disgruntled or afk person wont vote or hits wait and leaves. ideal vote is timed with non-response or wait response within 5 minutes defer to majority vote instead.
3*Option for host to intitiate a majority vote inside game. - many abusive peeples everyone sometimes want out. Some who cheat. Others who come like in cton when one player has forgotton to put pass but they refuse to leave.
4*Means for host to add or change password in game
5*Means to hide or minimise OOS message and flashing messages such as joining as sometimes is irrelevent and give pretty epletic fit.
6*fix seeding on pangea, highland, lakes etc so these maps are actually playable mp. - all u gots to do is make it so noones can start within stupid suicide distances.
7*add a speed faster than blazing AND/OR add a blazing alternative with static times i.e. fixed at 30 seconds period.
8*triple the duration of slavery unhappiness so all these n00bs have option to consider an alternative strat. if your random events have slavery make signficnt increase of rebellion odds that is fine too.
9*Remove luck from same-turn wonders and religion distribution. Highest shields/beaker overflow wins.
10*Display pings in lobby or in launch room is fine. like every other MP game in existence!
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Post by NumberOneMercury on Apr 9, 2007 15:16:01 GMT -5
Well I only have 1 issue:
I've had many games where the game will not start (or, this is new, will randomly stop in the middle of the game) and no vote screen comes up and it seems to be a single person causing the problem in most of these instances, but there is no way to tell who--this needs to be solved by either
(a) why can't this problem fix itself? it usually does when people try again, why can't the game automatically do this? (b) at the very least identify who the problem is with so that person can quit and rejoin
Also, I second each of pretty's suggestions.
And thanks for asking.
EDIT: Okay, #2:
We definitely need some way to mute ingame chat (tab talking) either from certain people or everyone
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Post by Tony on Apr 9, 2007 15:51:03 GMT -5
Im not 100% sure what is being asked, is it a list of things that are not working properly, or a list, as pretty has made, of things we would like included?
I’ll make one of each just to be on the safe side:
These are things are currently not working in MP:
1) By far the most important - the vote screen not coming up, this happens in 90% of games that has more then 8 players.
2) Kinda tied into number 1- host dropping when a game is launched, again 90% of games over 8 players has this problem and then you have to wait 10 mins for vote screen or reload from lobby. Guy in the lobby screaming “It says game is full”
3) Timer really needs a re-think – some eras, blazing is to fast and fast is too slow (or fast being too fast and medium being to slow)
4) Connection is 1000 times better then vanilla CIV, but not always brilliant when I used to have a router, and other games didn’t seem to have a problem with my router. I have heard other talking about limited connectability(is that a word?) with routers.
5) A minor thing, when you move a unit onto a stack with less then 8 secs, the whole stack gets the delay.
6) OOS flashing - too hard to see who is out of sync.
Other then this I think all the features are working as they should be, 1 and 4 are probably the only 2 that really need work, the rest I can live with, as can most other people IMO.
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OK now stuff that I think should be incorporated for an all round better MP experience.
1) Integrate something like GS arcade, or something similar. I thank the French ladder for the great work they have done on CIV4FANS, but something a lot more powerful/integrated is needed, where you can see games, how full they are, etc, without booting CIV.
2) Also something that indicates how well someone can run the game, a mark out of 10 maybe. Pretty mentioned ping but I don’t know how accurate this is all the time, from my experience sometimes crappy computers cause the problem. There is nothing more frustrating in a CIV game then 5-6 secs lag on each move.
3) Do something about same turn wonders and technologies this is a simultaneous moves problem, but something can be put into place to handle it better. I don’t really like the idea of, who ever has more roll-over. Maybe you should be able to transfer these hammers across at a slight penalty, is pre-building wonders good or bad?
4) The way MODs are handled is just crazy - should be in same lobby and shouldnt require that reboot stuff.
1 and 2 being the most important in this list.
There are other things I can think of but they are more about the game itself, game features etc.
I dont think anything should be done to the passwords, like host being able to change them, i defeats the pupose of having a password. Plus open players would abuse it, if the host is given any additional powers once the game is launched.
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Post by Magzi on Apr 9, 2007 16:32:23 GMT -5
My main gripe is we need a decent lobby, where we can make rooms for clans/teams to meet. C4F is very good but we should have a proper one with the game. Having to have yahoo on to find people is a joke really! Also, I still find many lag problems occur, I don't have this many problems with other games so I don't think it's my set-up.
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Post by Death to ALL on Apr 9, 2007 16:44:47 GMT -5
I'll add in a few more, not sure I can get to 10 without some more thought.
- GAMESPY - this peer to peer network just doesn't cut it.
-Needs fixed in MP, only have to look as far as the last CCC events.
Industrial - England not allowed Renaissance - Russia excluded MODERN - No Germany, no Commandos, no Spies One City Challenge - Russia not allowed and Saladin not allowed
If it's not broke in MP then why are we banning it?
- MOD games not listed in main game list. even if you can't join it without first loading the MOD atleast list it and add another column to mark it as a mod. Maybe even give you a pop-up if you try to jon saying first load X mod.
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Post by mrgametheory on Apr 9, 2007 17:04:24 GMT -5
1) lag and game corruption issues with gamespy. 2) Internal ranking system. 3) Ability to change game speed by vote at anytime 4) Automated Boot Newb system. Once newb enters your game the system will boot the newb from staging and send a virus to their Gamespy email address. 5) Same turn wonders/religion etc needs to be decided by who has the most overflow. 6) Players that die can't pause the game, especially the players who die so quickly and violently that they decide to ruin a game by pressing pause 100 times while they are dead. 7) An option that automatically presses enter at the beginning of the turn, every turn until, the option is unselected. Some of us players actually know how to macro and go 15 turns without playing, this option would be helpful to the players bitching for the macros player to press enter.
8) If a player gets liberalism and dies another player cant get liberalism and get the free tec.
9) Anarchy is increased to 2 turn if you switch more than 3 civics at one time. Spiritual is becoming weaker and weaker in MP and if you actually do the math it is kinda worthless except for an emergency slavery when you are in another civic, but these days players never leave slavery.
10) Have an ability to remove certain leaders from being picked when players click random. Some leaders have major advantages over others in certain settings and considering most games are played where everyone goes random it would be nice to remove certain leaders from being randomly selected.
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Post by Canucksoldier on Apr 9, 2007 17:20:11 GMT -5
Im not 100% sure what is being asked, is it a list of things that are not working properly, or a list, as pretty has made, of things we would like included? Both but the "not working properly" will be higher on my final list than the "things we'd like added" CS
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Post by ironclad on Apr 9, 2007 20:22:42 GMT -5
1.Host crash, game crash at start. Players cant rejoin until vote comes up. It comes up magically as people drop one by one. Worst time sink in game by far. 2.Timer needs to be rebalanced. Early on fast is good, but too slow later on. Blazing too fast early on, but good later in game. 3.When chatting in game while a unit is selected. If you press certain keys it will move the unit. Needs to be fixed, really sucks when your chatting and you move your stack. 4.Show pings before launch, so we know if someone has 2000 ping. 5.mod games should be downloadable without rebooting, like how it is done for maps
Gameplay issues 6.Culture Bomb too strong, culture in general way too easy to expand. Keep the 20 percent at the cheap price that its at, 5. Replace 40 percent with 60 percent requirement. Replace 60 percent with 80 percent requirement. Culture bomb will then give you 60 percent instead. 7.Artillery and Planes can bomb roads. 8.Make gold rush cost 1.5 as much hammers in the conversion, rather than the 1 to 1. Make a good reason not to go slavery, civ3 salvery I remember made more unhappy people, even on cheiftan. 9.Future units need rebalacing and more thought.. 5 nukes a turn? 10.multiple leaders is dumb!, just wanted to say that.
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Post by smatt834 on Apr 10, 2007 2:37:56 GMT -5
1. half of games freezing at the start like everyone says and people having to drop and only half the time getting a vote screen.
2. Tony's 'minor thing' suggestion is hardly minor at all. (no offense) If you do what tony says on this one issue, covering your stacks after a big cata hit becomes pointless because on the next turn your stack won't be able to move yet the defender will be able to for the first 7 seconds. You think its hard to take cities now just implement that and you remove the whole cover after cat tactic from the game.
3. a cumulative punishment for overuse of slavery. like every time you do it that city gains a .5% or 1% chance of revolting for the rest of the game where a revolt would basically shut the city off for 2 turns. so if you slave 25 times in one city over the course of the game that city would have a 12.5%-to 25% of revolting for two turns at any given time. this punishment would decrease at a certain rate as well like 5% every 10 turns you don't slave.
4. i see no reason to whine about the timer but if you let the host be able to put in how much time per turn manually before launch it would probably make everyone happy.
5. Removing civs from being chosen in the Random draw, however the problem really lies in making more UU's or adding new units.
6. I want some extended reach on some new units. Artillery should be able to take out roads from 2 squares away and 3 away if they are on a hill. archers and longbows and such should be able to do something cool besides stand on hill. An archer ping of some sort that would take 1 health away from a unit. What archer just gonna sit on his hill and watch the enemy walk right past him. Gunpowder units should be able to do this from 2 away. ability only works from on a hill or in a fort or city.
7. Nothing wrong with 50/50 odds coin toss for wonders and such on the same turn. It happens get over it.
8. Make a 3 city challenge not just 1. 1 is lame.
9. Put a few bucks into a better ladder reporting page. Add eras and game type and map to the results so the ladder can have multiple categories for its players to prove themselves in. Then we could keep track of who's best at OCC's, teamers, ctons, fractals, inlands seas and so on. or go internal and do this.
10. In an anonymous game make it so scores and powergraphs are disabled unless spies, OR for all games make it so you build some sort of unit that costs your civ more money to have around than a normal unit. Say a military advisor unit who is passive like a machine gun and the health of a scout. If this unit is in your capitol you can see their power graph. You could do the same for the other graphs as well. Banking advisor, cultural advisor, farming advisor. Just have em cost enough extra maintenance so there is an actual choice to make between knowing what your neighbor is doing right now or waiting until later. and since the power graph would probably be the most important to see, the military advisor would cost more to maintain than the other advisor units.
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Post by MMV on Apr 10, 2007 5:12:08 GMT -5
slavery should not only cause unhappiness in the city it's done in, but also cause "some" unhappiness in all your other cities (rumors of slavery abounding throughout your civ with all the other citizens focused/being unhappy on when it's going to happen to them)
slavery at the beginning is ok (because "your citizens" have never known anything else - but changing BACK to slavery after you've been at an advanced form of government (serfdom, caste system, etc) should cost you not only DOUBLE penalty, but maybe even two turns of anarchy.
When someone finally gets emancipation it's supposed to cause those that don't have it some happiness - and it does, but I think once you've LEARNED emancipation, whether you've changed to that civic or not, you shouldn't be able to go back to slavery again (unless you're in communism)
also, until a city is at pop3 you shouldn't be able to build workers or settlers. (and current "non-growth period" of a city during a worker/settler build should be removed or "nerfed-down" since you can't do it until pop3 anyway)
bring back Regicide as a game option
Oh, and bring back CAPTURE of catapults instead of the current "destruction" - knowing that you could LOSE them in an attack and that they could be used AGAINST you would still offer the powerful cat option, but may cause people lto "rethink" that strategy (instead of "nerfing them down")
Sound familiar?
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Post by AngelOnEarth on Apr 10, 2007 6:24:46 GMT -5
since this thread should bring up problems especially with MP games, i will not put things like e.g. nerfing catapults on my list since that's not a pure MP problem. i also don't really know what to put on the top of the list and what at the bottom, so i will just give my 10 items without prioritizing them (most are already mentioned anyway i think).
- crashes and freezes during startup ... host drop bug occurs every second game and the leave and rejoin procedure if the game freezes on startup is just too time consuming (and even doesn't work every time). looking at the pings is a waste, 0-pings show nothing, i had games where i had 0-pings to all but 1 player but just that player dropped after we waited for minutes.
- start positions should be assignable before game start ... it's nice to pick teams that are fair, balanced with good and not so good players. but if one team gets only the best players on front and the other the weaker, it's not much fun to see you front dieing unable to help in any way. and if this happens early, you can't even compensate it in the long run.
- MOD games should be listed in the lobby even if you didn't have the MOD loaded ... can't be hard to make a new column showing MODed games like pitboss games. i would love to try new MODS in MP but nearly always i load up something, the MOD lobby is empty. can't be that players need to find themselves elsewhere if they want to play MODs.
- show pings in staging ... this is a MUST, i was in lots of games lately that were scrapped because of lagginess or that lasted like 5h. sometimes only a reboot is needed and the pings are fixed, but having to do this once the game is started results in a scrap 99%.
- blinking OOS message ... it's bad enough such errors occur so often, but this OSS message is just needless. with changing values and blinking all the time it is hard to even guess who's OOS - ever tried to stop this disco with pause? good luck ...
- MP vote screen ... this one needs to be timed out if you don't come to a conclusion, let's say after a fixed period w/o an agreement the majority vote wins. maybe make the value changeable by host in staging.
- assignable OCC value ... what about a simple input field for city challange just like city elim and turn limit. so the host can change the value of how many cities each civ can build, that would bring some variety to city challange games. although OCC is kinda popular atm, most players don't like playing only 1 city (don't know if they would be more happy with 2 or 3 though).
- leaders in random games ... won't be much fun being on the wrong side in a 4v4 anc teamer with other team randomly getting mali, aztecs, zulu and egypt. like said before either make it possible to exclude some civs from the pool in random games or just add in an option like 'same leaders for each team' that can be ticked by host.
- pausing the game ... this is getting bad lately, it shouldn't be possible to just pause the game when you want. in some cases short before or during an attack this can cause massive problems leading to heavy argues (check some threads in the forum). there should be an option like if one player presses pause, all other players will get a message like 'player xxx demands a pause' and the game only really pauses if another player (maybe from the other team) pressed pause too.
- gifting units ... this is just a personal impression, but imho there should be an option to allow/disallow the gifting of units in MP games. it is even more interesting if all players move their units alone and need to play more like a team planning attacks together than just gifting all to one player. it would make the unit maintance like it should be for every player and will prevent the gifted UU upgrading like knights to cossacks.
oh well, while writing this alot more things came to my mind but i guess these are my most important ...
greetz AOE
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Post by longhorn on Apr 10, 2007 8:02:42 GMT -5
Besides some of the excellent suggestions (and the not so great ones too) being offered so far :
1- If a fix to the timer can't be made (such as adjustable timer etc.) then at least make the 1st turn to be untimed or 3+ mins (in non ancient starts). Most games we play blazing is fine AFTER the first turn (where we need to plant cities, change civics and possibly discuss a little team strategy).
2- For anc games where the noob host insists on banning tribal villages (goodie huts), allow option of player to disable scout start. Banning huts completely unbalances a scout vs warrior start.
3- The double move still exists and should be aggressively stopped. I mean come-on, how realistic is it that a fortified city with archers(etc.) in the watch towers would not be able to use city defenses like catapults against an approaching enemy. Plain and simple, the double move is an EXPLOIT! Please come up with some way to permanently rid us of it.
4- Give lobby chat/view access from vote screen.
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Post by Tony on Apr 10, 2007 10:48:43 GMT -5
i dont see any problems with double moves anymore, those that dont prepare get double moved IMO.
7-8 secs is ample time to move your units, also i think it adds something to the game as you have to place your units in clever postions.
Double moves is a small exploit of sim-moves, while covering catapulted units is a big one.
As for regicide i agree, it was a GREAT option back in C3C, but the game mechanics are such that killing the king is pretty much the same thing as conquest victory. How would you kill a king deep into someones empire sitting pretty in a city? When future is being played with city-elim you know something isn't quite right.
Just to add to my list above, would be cool if you could customisze your civ according to style of play.
2) I dont think other teams should know what civics you have gone into, this is fine for SP, but there is no need for it in MP, just gives people a heads up for no reason.
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Post by cv431410 on Apr 10, 2007 12:25:01 GMT -5
Civ4 is a synchronized game, i.e. it has "turns". I would like to see it turning into an asynchronized game, i.e. there will be no turns.
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Post by Canucksoldier on Apr 10, 2007 14:50:17 GMT -5
Civ4 is a synchronized game, i.e. it has "turns". I would like to see it turning into an asynchronized game, i.e. there will be no turns. Well I think your alone here, no one else wants civ to be just another RTS game. CS
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Post by longhorn on Apr 10, 2007 14:50:43 GMT -5
i dont see any problems with double moves anymore, those that dont prepare get double moved IMO. 2) I dont think other teams should know what civics you have gone into, this is fine for SP, but there is no need for it in MP, just gives people a heads up for no reason. Well I dont see any problems with other teams being able to hear when you adopt a civic, but this thread will be so much more constructive if you focus solely on posting YOUR OWN ideas instead of refuting or dismissing the ideas and suggestions of others. THANK YOU, -lh
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Post by cv431410 on Apr 10, 2007 16:34:27 GMT -5
Civ4 is a synchronized game, i.e. it has "turns". I would like to see it turning into an asynchronized game, i.e. there will be no turns. Well I think your alone here, no one else wants civ to be just another RTS game. CS Well then, make it optional: the game can have two modes, synchronized and asynchronized. "Surrender is not an option, File a report is" --- quote from civ4players.proboards44.com/index.cgi?action=recent
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Post by ironclad on Apr 10, 2007 20:11:35 GMT -5
Would like see graphs more like civ3, they are too revealing. Points and culture are fine. But crop,pop,mfg should be given to you in numbers, and your rank in the world. power should be compared to each civ with your military adviser, like it was in civ3. Seems much more realistic, not a cheat sheet. So just one more add I would like to see, no graphs!
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Post by cryptococcus on Apr 11, 2007 3:22:33 GMT -5
The vote screen already times out with majority vote in less than 10 min.
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