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Post by tamijo on Apr 17, 2007 4:52:08 GMT -5
Spy needs a counter unit, so y wont need to ban the spy from doing things, A spy-catcher that can spot and kill spys.
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Post by MMV on Apr 17, 2007 7:37:40 GMT -5
makes sense - if we have espionage ability, there should be a counter espionage ability.
it used to be there with building an embassy in your neighbor's civ.
it ALSO used to be that civ was "balanced" (like embassies in other civs that had a certain percentage of catching spy - not to mention the fact that the spy had a certain percentage of getting caught (and almost ALL spy "actions" cost $$$$$ gold)
other examples - you couldn't go past pop6 without aquaducts and you couldn't go past pop12 without hospitals (larger cities over 6 needed "plumbing" and even larger cities needed medical care or growth stopped)
Don't think they'll bring that back though in their original efforts to "simplify" the game.
With utmost sincerity, all these things posted in this thread are GREAT - but we have a better shot of getting a free pencil when we buy the Xpak.
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Post by Tony on Apr 17, 2007 10:07:05 GMT -5
Another thing that would be cool is, you should be able to use resources in an allies borders if he isnt using them. For example if an ally has has culture bombed a corn you can settle next to it, work it and then use it, even if its not in your borders.
If a reouces is broken while you are making a unit, you should be allowed to continue building it. For example your making a MA and then someone bombs your oil at 0 secs, this is just soo gay. Another thing i would like to be able to do is, allowing workers, to build mines/pastures/etc outside your lands, i dont see why you cant.
Also colonies would be pretty cool in later eras. Make a medi/ren tech needed for colonies.
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Post by MMV on Apr 17, 2007 13:54:09 GMT -5
trust me - vote for the free pencil.
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redphoenix
Warrior
CCCAC Representative
Posts: 253
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Post by redphoenix on Apr 27, 2007 3:28:07 GMT -5
#1Catapults need fixing. simple. Make them 0 attack, trebuchets/cannons cost double. Still will be a viable and necessary unit to bombard city defenses and to bombard opponents stack down. But the cata it self will not decimate units totally, have to use other units for that. Right now all you need is catapults, which is absurd. Catapults also can't be bombarded so they retain high values and decimate a bombarded stack even if rest of your units are bombarded, just an absurd unit atm.
#2Lag needs fixing, if possible.
#3Every map definately must have an option for random placement in a team game. It is absurd that you either have your whole team grouped always, or by a game glitch one player is isolated on the other side of the enemy. Allow for random placement to be selected for every map. This is a big thing that would make for a more fun way to play the game. Note, this is only a trigger a player can enable if wanted, rest of you who want the old way can play it to your hearts content. But I know this change would bring 200 new players from civ3 to here(ladder), and from elsewhere too. (esp if coupled with the later era fix.) ( I know catapult fix aint gonna happen, but it would be tremendeous if it did. Just lower catapults attack value to 0, they'll still be a needed unit to pound down other units/cities for an attack. Thats an easy fix. Maybe put them at 1 strenght, at most.) Later era bombardment units arent as much of a problem, but they could use fixing too. But not gonna get into that as much here. Make trebuchets/cannons also more expensive coupled with this fix.
#4Fix future/modern, there are a lot of threads and mods being attempted to fix it/info on whats wrong there. Civ3 future/modern/indu was/is 100x better. Civ4 only shines above civ3 in earlier eras, rene and below.
#5Lower the bonus exp civs gain to workers by 50%. It will still be a good trait aftr this too. But not super.
Well thats my top 5.
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Post by MMV on Apr 27, 2007 7:10:15 GMT -5
[quote author=redphoenix board=general thread=1176147402 post=1177662487Well thats my top 5[/quote]
Trust me - ask for the free pencil - we have a better chance, lol.
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Post by ironclad on Apr 27, 2007 13:31:37 GMT -5
catapult strength one but high collateral is a good solution. This has been brought up several times.
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Post by Canucksoldier on Apr 27, 2007 16:59:43 GMT -5
catapult strength one but high collateral is a good solution. This has been brought up several times. We are looking at solutions to make cats useful while not being over powered, making them a 0 strength unit is not that likely just because that much of a code/mechanics change is too involved, but we are looking at many other options that can balance cats. CS
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Post by MMV on Apr 27, 2007 22:47:53 GMT -5
sentries fixed???
(and how about that free x-pak pencil, eh?)
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Post by toratoratora on Apr 28, 2007 0:50:42 GMT -5
Huh cats problem easy to solve Just make horse archers cheaper and earlier in the tech path! Or go Buy a Great Big Dog btw anyone know what happened to StoneDoG?
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Post by holocanthe on Apr 29, 2007 16:41:03 GMT -5
The question of CanuckSoldier has been post on civfr.com, a french forum about civilization. We made a summary of this discussion, giving the main 10 points to upgrade for multiplayer :
1-In parameters room : Every player should see every parameters, not only the hoster. Each one should see the ping and the connection of each one. Add a count of time, 5 seconds for example, between the moment the hoster launch the game and the true beginning. For games in team with 3 players or more, add the possibility to choose the players in the middle.
2-More differences in the colors of the leaders : if 2 leaders are in an almost same green, it’s very hard to play. For players in the same team, it would be easier to have the same color, but with clear differences. The most important is that opponents don’t have close colors !
3- Time goes too quickly in the beginning of the game, and too slow in the end. Give the possibility to change quickness during a game.
4-Give the possibility to click out of pop-up windows to leave simply it.
5- Change the shortcuts, for more easier use, with one hand. Because if you have to leave the mouse to use a shortcut, it’s no more shortcut… Give the possibility to change shortcuts
6- Add the possibility to change the order in one stack. For example, if I wish to select half the units in a stack, it should be possible to make a selection frame as for windows, to select a stack, without having to select one by one.
7- Having a greater time delay to disallow 2 moves in a row.
8- make weaker the accessible treat and the zoulous
9- Change the selection order of unit, beginning by the nearest unit at the beginning of turn and beginning at end of turn by the last one used.
10 – Add a system for spectator to see the game, with an authorization of players.
In general: improve fluidity of the lobby, create a true one, and without Game Spy.
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Post by Canucksoldier on Apr 30, 2007 11:16:46 GMT -5
Thanks Holocanthe, and everyone at Civfr as well.
CS
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redphoenix
Warrior
CCCAC Representative
Posts: 253
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Post by redphoenix on May 3, 2007 2:28:54 GMT -5
Huh cats problem easy to solve Just make horse archers cheaper and earlier in the tech path! Or go Buy a Great Big Dog btw anyone know what happened to StoneDoG? And add a couple spears and 3 elephants to a 20 cata stack and you still kill a 20 HA stack trying to hit you. Point is a minority of the stack should be catas. Catas shouldn't be über powerful when attacking. 10 catas kill 10HA when they attack them.. WTH! Catas should be only for minor bombardment of field units, they were not a unit killer. And for taking city defenses down. Not an all powerfull field combat unit. Hell they kill all melee units in ancient era... 1v1... what they do? roll them over? going at 2mph. (ok a swordsman can beat a cata, but when its 2v2 then catas roll them again, and not can.. it's a close call 1v1
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Post by smatt834 on May 4, 2007 4:25:43 GMT -5
if you don't know how to use 3 or 4 cats and a couple axemen to deal with a couple spears and elephants then sure your statement rings true. cats are only overpowered if you don't know how to build units of your own and are dumb enough to let the big stack of cats attack you instead of you attacking them.
hate to tell you but a 15 HA, 5 cats, 2 elephants if you got em and 3 to 5 axe men stack is gonna wipe out that 20 cat, 2 spear 3 elephant stack you mentioned. after banning water i think cats and rivers should be banned too cause its not fair if i don't get a river and someone else does. make sure to implement the no water tile, no river, no cat changes plz.
and 10 cats do not kill 10 HA when attacking. first 5 cats will die and even if you collateral all the HA to power 3 that's still a 4.5 v 5 battle. so whatver does live is dead immediately on the next turn.
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Post by tommynt on May 6, 2007 14:58:57 GMT -5
#1 no servers, this peer to peer or whatever u call the connection system just isnt on 2006/2007 standard #2 connectivity, still way too many problems that some players cant join a game or need ages to do #3 host drop bug, super anoying bug I see every 3rd game. U get anoyed right when u start playing #4 bad map scripts, sometimes u r just lost from beginning of game, that also a game design problem that some thing are way too powerful and important. No way to catach up with having rice and mainly plains with some1 having 6 food mais and diamonds and .. floodplains very powerful aswell also there are peninsula starts on some maps and stuff like that. Team battlefield useually provides kinda fair starts so maybe copy its settings to other maps #5 slow games/lag issues sometimes slow game even with good pings, possibility to change timer during game might help or a "steples" timer. Maybe kinda problematic in games like we play - but still a must. Timer is also not sppropriate in later game stages, it just have to be "adjustable" #6 no inbuilt "ladder", ranking system is what every succesful game got #7 rejoining bugs, got some problems to descirbe: 1. u allways have to restart game to see the reload in lobby 2. it takes often ages to get into game there are other problems with rejoining aswell, maybe some1 else can describe better #8 lobby spamers, there is badly lacking game support, so no1 stops them. #9 the mod load problem is a huge issue, it takes too long and sometimes still people got problems to join games even with mod loaded. #10 game design, oh well there s so much. 1. this old cata issue, even when I think thats it not a too big problem, these Catas are really a bit overpowered. 2. slaving is in some game types too powerful 3. exp maybe a bit a too powerful trait 4. artist bomb too powerful in some multiyplayer game types, mostly ren. 5. no counterunit too machineguns 6. totally boring endgameunits
#11 Huge lag problems in endgame stages/modern era - espacilly with nukes flying. Really have a look at civ3 future and try make endgame civ4 a bit more like it. Thats way worst designed era, looks like u ran out of time/ideas when u designed it
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Post by MMV on May 6, 2007 21:54:30 GMT -5
and the biggest problem that hasn't been addressed?
"they" won't listen.
"they" have found the perfect balance between apathy and empathy - "they" don't know and "they" don't care.
"they" don't even pretend.
with well over a million copies of the original C4 sold, we here at MP don't make up 1/10th of 1 percent of their customer base.
maybe instead of the free pencil, we should ask that they name a game era after multi-player
they could call it "MP Languishing"
perhaps after "Beyond the Sword" they could make an XPak called "Beyond MP" (and charge us double because we'll pay, lol)
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Post by Tony on May 6, 2007 23:11:20 GMT -5
I think alot of people in this forum give MP less credit then it deserves, i think MP represents a way bigger chunck of the CIV community then people think. I would say atleast 15% of CIV's sales are down to MP, maybe more.
Not talking about the ladder here, but MP in general.
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Post by MMV on May 7, 2007 0:09:05 GMT -5
150,000 MP players?
we have less than 1,000 on this ladder, where could the other 149,000 MP players be?
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Post by deyreepher on May 7, 2007 0:35:44 GMT -5
150,000 MP players? we have less than 1,000 on this ladder, where could the other 149,000 MP players be? Well, I own probably like 50 Gamespy accounts for Civ IV. So that's where 50 of them are.
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Post by tommynt on May 7, 2007 5:35:02 GMT -5
even when I doubt that the mentioned problems will be adressed, I still wrote my lil list in hope that they ll be addresed in a future expension or in civ5. After adressing the connection/lag problems I an maybe some others who stoped playing cause of them might return some day. Somehow I understand Firaxis/Take2, civ4 is running in some stable way, so why should they adress "minor" problems without getting money. Lacking support is just way too common in business, so we should not wonder that same lacking support is also visable in civ4.
Maybe the problems with mods should even be n2 or so in list as good mods are only way too keep a mp game allive
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