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Post by ironclad on Jun 18, 2006 20:32:22 GMT -5
why does it show whats in boats... whats up with that i never got that but it does make me feel safer -i understand why it shows units in city.. which is kinda lame.. but it takes all the anticipation from the game, when there is a stack of 30 and u have 5 spears in city and hope he bypasses because he thinks there are less units deeper in.
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Post by Canucksoldier on Jun 18, 2006 21:34:17 GMT -5
I dont really get this thread, so far i have heard sooo many reasons why the ladder is not growing: People dont welcome new players into teamers Not enough articles have been written The ladder not instant sign up Alot of open players dont know about the lader Not enough tornies No one ever reports The truth is ALL of the above is rubbish! Not only ladder player numbers falling but aslo non-ladder, i personally think the problem lies in the game itself and has nothing to do with anything else. 1) The game is rather buggy, the worst bug you can have in any game is not being able to connect to each other. This causes soo much fustration. But saying that i personally belive this is only a small contributing factor. 2) The game-play this is the real issue IMO, why have no many C3C players bought the game and basicly gone back to C3C? It just doesnt have that addictivness element prior versions in the series did. It seems even sirpartyman prefers C3C, although im sure he wount admit it, but you only have to see his reports on both ladders. Maybe i dont know what im doing but i find all too often i am doing the same thing game in game out, and the element of supirse is totally gone. Ship attack? quick moving horses? foget it!! It seems the only way to kill someone is with choking, or out produce/tech them, which can get awfully boring. When the game first game out i expressed concerns about the games longevity, and i guess i was right. Playing the same people, and doing the same thing game after game is only fun for a few months, which i also predicted. My next prediction is Warlords will add feul to the fire, even fewer players playing. (Current civ4 players) *(0.50) = Warlords MP community = sigh This is not being negative, its just my thoughts Well the connection issues are certainly part of it, but there's not much we can do about that unfortunately. As to the game itself, well this comes down to individual opinions, but I do know that most die hard C3C players don't like Civ4, but I really don't think that means Civ4 is a worse game, just that it's absolutely not Civ3...susprise, susprise, it was never meant to be a upgraded Civ3. I personally think that the problem with bordom with Civ4 in MP, is our own fault, ladder players simpley refuse to try anthing but what they have mastered. I've tried many times to host 0CC games or QC games in the past couple weeks and I end up giving up due to lack of interest and joining another ancient cton on inland lakes or another ren teamer etc. There's so much variety and strategy available with Civ4 and we ignore most of it just because we might lose a game due to not having mastered that game/map? Sad. CS
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Post by tommynt on Jun 19, 2006 7:26:24 GMT -5
the main reason for less variances lies again in technical and design issues imo - for teamers other maps as tbf inland sea ring and pang/balanced are just to unknown in outcome and often unfair - the design problem behind there is the lack of shiekldgrass and therefore the reliances on resources and wood and space - good land is too important - therefore u need to play settings which guarantes decent land and fair amount of space for everybody.
My occ killersemictons allways filled kinda fast - but usually mainly with vets The problem with other mods as occ is that everybody gotta load em from main menu - a step back from civ3 times and as i wasted once 3 hours with trying to get a mod game running i rather play a anc teamer as wasting another 3 hours with unknown outcome.
I got no real solution how to make civ4 ladder more like civ3 ladder at high times - but (i said that often enough allready) we need imo admins who are more present and love the game instead just doing the job admins (what i truly respect aswell).
Maybe we should really start to host more different kind of games like FFA or worldmap which seem to be style of nonladder - I just dont like these 2 kinds - maybe some other experienced could do that
In the end most of problems are just reasoned by technical issues which arent accetable in a 2005/06 game.
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Post by Bonez on Jun 19, 2006 11:09:51 GMT -5
Just wanted to add my lil bit on this issue... while I lurk here quite a bit and am mainly a civ3 guy, I still indulge in a SP game here and there in civ4. While civ 4 was "supposed" to be designed for MP, it seems more technically less-frustrating as SP.
As for trying to make the ladder better then civ3's prime... maybe u need to look at civ3 now.... as of yesterday the total matches played in civ 4 was 389, this from a game that is WELL past it's introduction stage. Civ3 has been out more then 3 years and our matches played yesterday was 334 (a wider variety of scenarios as well). Maybe some former civ3 players should pop in this weekend for the CCC and see that it is still alive and well, then maybe together we can take ideas from both civ3 and civ 4 and make some modifications to come to a happy medium.
The thing about BOTH games, is that they are completely modify-able. Civ4 is about raping and pillaging until u can completely overpower ur opponent later on. There is even a recent thread where people do their laundry, play chess and other things in between turns. Where's the keep u on the edge of your seat suspense? Civ 3 has a thread entitled "Don't Blink and other tips for Ancient games" There's a surprise factor and a "I could kill or get killed on any given turn" kinda feeling. Thru modifications and changes we can make a game with the same good things as civ3, and get rid of the bad, and vice-versa with civ4. Yes what I am implying is NOT a different game, but an improvement of civ3 AND civ4 with elements of both. Almost every piece of this game and civ3 is completely changeable, as witnessed thru modified scenarios such as MoM, Masters of Myrror, where there are varying tech trees for the 4 elements and completely changed and invented units like orcs, ghouls, dragons.... the sky is the limit.
It may be just my opinion but the potential of the 2 games haven't been realized yet, and now that civ4 has come out, stores are selling civ3 at $9.99 at wal-mart, and there has actually been a surprising influx of new players at civ3 both ladder and open.
Well, that's my piece, I'll head back to my MP games in civ3 and play my SP in civ4 so i don't have to bang my head over the technical issues.
*disclaimer - this is not an ad for civ3, its suggestions on how to improve a game we all want to see made better
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Post by tommynt on Jun 19, 2006 13:26:24 GMT -5
I guess we dont want to play civ3 with civ4 graphiks - thats not the issue
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Post by zzZhenon on Jun 19, 2006 14:43:03 GMT -5
I dont really get this thread, so far i have heard sooo many reasons why the ladder is not growing: People dont welcome new players into teamers Not enough articles have been written The ladder not instant sign up Alot of open players dont know about the lader Not enough tornies No one ever reports The truth is ALL of the above is rubbish! Not only ladder player numbers falling but aslo non-ladder, i personally think the problem lies in the game itself and has nothing to do with anything else. 1) The game is rather buggy, the worst bug you can have in any game is not being able to connect to each other. This causes soo much fustration. But saying that i personally belive this is only a small contributing factor. 2) The game-play this is the real issue IMO, why have no many C3C players bought the game and basicly gone back to C3C? It just doesnt have that addictivness element prior versions in the series did. It seems even sirpartyman prefers C3C, although im sure he wount admit it, but you only have to see his reports on both ladders. Maybe i dont know what im doing but i find all too often i am doing the same thing game in game out, and the element of supirse is totally gone. Ship attack? quick moving horses? foget it!! It seems the only way to kill someone is with choking, or out produce/tech them, which can get awfully boring. When the game first game out i expressed concerns about the games longevity, and i guess i was right. Playing the same people, and doing the same thing game after game is only fun for a few months, which i also predicted. My next prediction is Warlords will add feul to the fire, even fewer players playing. (Current civ4 players) *(0.50) = Warlords MP community = sigh This is not being negative, its just my thoughts Tony I somewhat agree with what you say. Awesome MP changes that I would love to see: Borders - only allow 1 tile sight range across flat terrain. God forbid someone has to use scouts. Units in Ships/Cities- Invisible. Or only see a certain # of units. 2-move units- More, more, more! Let's face it. Catching your opponent off-guard is how many, many wars are won.... even in RL.
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Post by Canucksoldier on Jun 19, 2006 18:21:58 GMT -5
Sounds like something that a modder could make for us, although there are more two move units coming in WL's.
CS
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Post by agentdawg on Jun 19, 2006 19:15:21 GMT -5
I dont really get this thread, so far i have heard sooo many reasons why the ladder is not growing: People dont welcome new players into teamers Not enough articles have been written The ladder not instant sign up Alot of open players dont know about the lader Not enough tornies No one ever reports The truth is ALL of the above is rubbish! Not only ladder player numbers falling but aslo non-ladder, i personally think the problem lies in the game itself and has nothing to do with anything else. 1) The game is rather buggy, the worst bug you can have in any game is not being able to connect to each other. This causes soo much fustration. But saying that i personally belive this is only a small contributing factor. 2) The game-play this is the real issue IMO, why have no many C3C players bought the game and basicly gone back to C3C? It just doesnt have that addictivness element prior versions in the series did. It seems even sirpartyman prefers C3C, although im sure he wount admit it, but you only have to see his reports on both ladders. Maybe i dont know what im doing but i find all too often i am doing the same thing game in game out, and the element of supirse is totally gone. Ship attack? quick moving horses? foget it!! It seems the only way to kill someone is with choking, or out produce/tech them, which can get awfully boring. When the game first game out i expressed concerns about the games longevity, and i guess i was right. Playing the same people, and doing the same thing game after game is only fun for a few months, which i also predicted. My next prediction is Warlords will add feul to the fire, even fewer players playing. (Current civ4 players) *(0.50) = Warlords MP community = sigh This is not being negative, its just my thoughts Well I'm trying to play some Civ 4 because civ 3 is getting harder to find a game, but i rarely ever see a ladder game in the lobby for civ 4 and Ive been having connections issues of late with other players so I'm ending up with no civ at all. Agent_ Dawg
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Post by churchill1 on Jun 19, 2006 19:52:41 GMT -5
Tommy, Please start hosting OCC games again .
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Post by Canucksoldier on Jun 19, 2006 21:44:02 GMT -5
Funny I've tried hosting 0CC and QC games a few times during my weekend slots, and you'd think I was the devil incarnate CS
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Post by zzZhenon on Jun 19, 2006 23:12:56 GMT -5
Sounds like something that a modder could make for us, although there are more two move units coming in WL's. CS Yeah I'm hoping those units and "whatnot" will help.... but I'm not sure what's common knowledge and what is NDA breach, so I thought i'd keep my yap shut about it.
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Post by Ellestar on Jun 20, 2006 0:29:34 GMT -5
My occ killersemictons allways filled kinda fast - but usually mainly with vets The problem with other mods as occ is that everybody gotta load em from main menu - a step back from civ3 times and as i wasted once 3 hours with trying to get a mod game running i rather play a anc teamer as wasting another 3 hours with unknown outcome. Exactly. Mods are too hard to use at this moment. Civ should ask if we want to download and use a mod. Also, starting on a downloaded map shouldn't cause OOS all the time.
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Post by Canucksoldier on Jun 20, 2006 3:37:54 GMT -5
Sounds like something that a modder could make for us, although there are more two move units coming in WL's. CS Yeah I'm hoping those units and "whatnot" will help.... but I'm not sure what's common knowledge and what is NDA breach, so I thought i'd keep my yap shut about it. You can talk about what is already in the public domain Zhenon, so you can do like me and read poly and CFC to see what has been released, and that and only that can you talk about. Ofcourse if your not sure...don't talk about it CS
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Post by tamijo on Jun 20, 2006 9:17:57 GMT -5
Im all green about this hole ladder thing, and i never did play CIV3 online, so i cant say that Civ4 is better, but i like the game. and i think its possible to create a lot of difrent stuff from the setup. !
You might wonder why so many games are either Indland S Cton or Ren teamer (less than 25% of the ladder are invited) and if they do, they are the noobs that are the reason one team win the other loose (arnt they ?) But we can change that whenever we want to.
So my point is that i think its better to be nice to the new people in the ladder. And accept they act like noobs, its simple they are noobs, no reason to shout it out. And then on the other hand make it a little hard to get in, to keep people out that are not interested, and to help catching cheaters !
Conclution (if i lost y) keep the invite system !
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Post by tamijo on Jun 20, 2006 9:28:14 GMT -5
Better ask more direct: how often do we play:
"2v2v2v?" or "1 city elim CTON HUB" or "150 turns medival island"
I think there are lots of possibilities, but off course its a risk ans a better player might loose due to these changes
But on the other hand that can happen on a Indland Sea also.
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Post by ironclad on Jun 20, 2006 11:43:44 GMT -5
150 turns :/
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Post by MookieNJ on Jun 22, 2006 1:24:49 GMT -5
Exactly. Mods are too hard to use at this moment. Civ should ask if we want to download and use a mod. Also, starting on a downloaded map shouldn't cause OOS all the time. Everyone should download and install C4F. Eiffel has included some great mods and C4F can launch them automatically for you.
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Post by alice on Jun 22, 2006 1:35:26 GMT -5
why dosent myleague have a hotlink to c4f on the front page larger then life glowing and with fireworks
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Post by Hombre on Jun 22, 2006 3:06:46 GMT -5
Better ask more direct: how often do we play: "2v2v2v?" or "1 city elim CTON HUB" or "150 turns medival island" I think there are lots of possibilities, but off course its a risk ans a better player might loose due to these changes But on the other hand that can happen on a Indland Sea also. CIV is a diferent game than C3C. Its not fair to compare the two ladders, CIV needs to find his attractives, what has CIV that dont have C3C? Thats what we need to use. The main thing that CIV allows and C3C dont is a bigger variety of teams styles. And now the reason why I added tamijo reply: hes right about we need to host more 2v2v2v2v2 games. Also we need more 3v3v3v3v3 and 4v4v4v4 games. Lets use common sense, that kind of games sells by theirselfs, if a non ladder reached the lobby and see that the ladder games 2v2v2v2v2 or 4v4v4v4 and fill up soon, they would like to become ladder. Also that games allows the veteran player to give more advises to the noob, cause he just needs to control 2 or 3 players in less land. And if you play with a noob or two noobs you also have chances of win the game, cause maybe the team with 4 veterans is getting triple teamed!! I think thats what CIV ladder needs to gain terrain vs CIV non ladder. The war vs C3C should be finished now, cause dont have sense to compare two diferent games. Is smart compare CIV with Counter Strike? no.
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Post by churchill1 on Jun 22, 2006 3:19:26 GMT -5
why dosent myleague have a hotlink to c4f on the front page larger then life glowing and with fireworks Couldn't agree more.
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