axius
Warrior
CCCAC Representative
Posts: 220
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Post by axius on Apr 16, 2007 17:43:00 GMT -5
I still don't see a reason to use this particular mod in this particular event. OCC games are already quick. They don't need to be even quicker, especially seeing as it involves using a mod. Is this just a 1-person decision by CS or something?
To improve OCC, it would be much better if somebody from the mod community found a way to overcome the problem with flood plains overwriting resources (both C4F and HB maps suffer from it).
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Post by Canucksoldier on Apr 16, 2007 18:17:29 GMT -5
I still don't see a reason to use this particular mod in this particular event. OCC games are already quick. They don't need to be even quicker, especially seeing as it involves using a mod. Is this just a 1-person decision by CS or something? To improve OCC, it would be much better if somebody from the mod community found a way to overcome the problem with flood plains overwriting resources (both C4F and HB maps suffer from it). It was a decision made by the Admin team, not that that matters, the reason we chose the OCC for the first kick at UQC was Because it's a simpler game and easier for us to test for balance and not as much of a learning curve as a cton or teamer would be for UQC. As Tony stated so well already, we need to move the ladder into new and different directions, people are getting bored and mods can keep this game fresh. Perhaps if this works out well we can move the UQC event to the ancient teamer or something else next CCC, or introduce the UU Madness or Future Regicide mods if we get all the bugs/features worked out. As to the map script problem, I'll see if that can be fixed in python or if it's a deeper problem with the core map generation code. CS
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Post by alice on Apr 16, 2007 23:16:57 GMT -5
seems that including mods in the ccc makes sence, if you can expand the mod'ing aspect of the game amoung the bulk of players then it can adapt, however if moded games can not be seen from the lobby then i predict that the game will continue to, not grow..
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Post by Canucksoldier on Apr 17, 2007 0:15:06 GMT -5
seems that including mods in the ccc makes sence, if you can expand the mod'ing aspect of the game amoung the bulk of players then it can adapt, however if moded games can not be seen from the lobby then i predict that the game will continue to, not grow.. I've asked to have the mod code changed to allow mods to be loaded like maps, but I've been told that this is no small change to the game code and isn't something that is going to change in an XP. I really don't think loading a mod when you want to join a mod game is that hard or complicated. People here have become experts at fast moving with the key pad but can't use the Advanced->Load a Mod menu to play a good game of civ? If this is true it is really sad. CS
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Post by TheClash on Apr 17, 2007 1:28:22 GMT -5
I still don't see a reason to use this particular mod in this particular event. OCC games are already quick. They don't need to be even quicker, especially seeing as it involves using a mod. Is this just a 1-person decision by CS or something? To improve OCC, it would be much better if somebody from the mod community found a way to overcome the problem with flood plains overwriting resources (both C4F and HB maps suffer from it). CS think about Axius commment again pls. Playing OCC with that MOD will give you from the mid of the game nearly every turn a new tech. Even with 120 turns you will reach Future Tech with an anc start !
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[KC]Bopper
Worker
The Knight Who Says 'Giddy-Up!'
Posts: 136
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Post by [KC]Bopper on Apr 17, 2007 1:52:44 GMT -5
Don't be shy to try the UltraQuickCiv out before writing your reviews. I've been trying it out for the past week and have had a 4 player, 3 player and several 1v1 games. They're kinda fun! I've played vs the AI too... and that's not so fun...
It's interesting to see some of your assumptions get thrown out the window, and learn some new levels of play.
We've been playing it with a turn limit of 120 and that gets you into pretty advanced eras as it is. WARNING! Playing the UQC mod with OCC settings is like crak for CIV - high addiction factor.
Give it a try and then post some feedback. If you need help getting it into your civ4/warlords/mods folder then ask in the lobby, there's lots of helpful little elves there.
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Post by smatt834 on Apr 17, 2007 9:55:45 GMT -5
lol same here bopper AI builds like 10 cities on you and around space race time i fell behind so i gave up. MP was fun though. Would be nice to test bigger game like a 3v3 occ on it.
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Post by Canucksoldier on Apr 17, 2007 13:52:21 GMT -5
I still don't see a reason to use this particular mod in this particular event. OCC games are already quick. They don't need to be even quicker, especially seeing as it involves using a mod. Is this just a 1-person decision by CS or something? To improve OCC, it would be much better if somebody from the mod community found a way to overcome the problem with flood plains overwriting resources (both C4F and HB maps suffer from it). CS think about Axius commment again pls. Playing OCC with that MOD will give you from the mid of the game nearly every turn a new tech. Even with 120 turns you will reach Future Tech with an anc start ! And is that bad? and why? CS
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axius
Warrior
CCCAC Representative
Posts: 220
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Post by axius on Apr 17, 2007 16:02:07 GMT -5
seems that including mods in the ccc makes sence, if you can expand the mod'ing aspect of the game amoung the bulk of players then it can adapt, however if moded games can not be seen from the lobby then i predict that the game will continue to, not grow.. I've asked to have the mod code changed to allow mods to be loaded like maps, but I've been told that this is no small change to the game code and isn't something that is going to change in an XP. I really don't think loading a mod when you want to join a mod game is that hard or complicated. People here have become experts at fast moving with the key pad but can't use the Advanced->Load a Mod menu to play a good game of civ? If this is true it is really sad. CS Right now mods are not widely used at all. To find a ladder game, you just check the list of games in the lobby. Either there is a game you'd like to join or there isn't. A lot of time there isn't, so you just re-check once in a while. Now suppose you've succeeded in making UQC, UUM, etc. mods popular on the ladder. Finding a ladder game becomes harder. If there is nothing you'd like to join in the game list, or you want to see what all games are available - then you have to log out, select one mod, log on, check the list, log out, select another mod, log on, check the list, etc. And if you host a ladder game - finding players for it also becomes harder because they are all split between different mods and can't easily see your game. It made me sad last night to see Bopper (my favorite host!) having to spam the lobby like the obnoxious noobs do - but how else would anybody know that he was hosting a UQC game? Civ4 doesn't have a good support for modded MP games. If you want to add more variety, custom maps still work. How long do you think it will take for these new mods to become popular? A couple months at least? But in July we are getting a whole new expansion - Beyond The Sword!! Just like with Warlords, most players will switch to it and everything before it will soon be forgotten. Yes, I know, some people still play vanilla Civ4, but the whole point of the mod deal is to bring something new to the ladder community. So you will add that mod for what, 2-3 CCCs, and then the whole thing will migrate to BTS and nobody will care about mods for a long time again.
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Post by Death to ALL on Apr 17, 2007 16:22:31 GMT -5
well actually we will have the mods moved to BtS also amd by that point they will most likely still be included in the CCC line-up.
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moineau
Warrior
Administrator
Posts: 330
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Post by moineau on Apr 17, 2007 17:55:34 GMT -5
Well we tried it and it is very fun. I think it should be putted in 130-140 turns to let people play space race, kill or points, as they want. Lot of way of win for more fun.
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Post by Canucksoldier on Apr 17, 2007 18:03:33 GMT -5
I've asked to have the mod code changed to allow mods to be loaded like maps, but I've been told that this is no small change to the game code and isn't something that is going to change in an XP. I really don't think loading a mod when you want to join a mod game is that hard or complicated. People here have become experts at fast moving with the key pad but can't use the Advanced->Load a Mod menu to play a good game of civ? If this is true it is really sad. CS Right now mods are not widely used at all. To find a ladder game, you just check the list of games in the lobby. Either there is a game you'd like to join or there isn't. A lot of time there isn't, so you just re-check once in a while. Now suppose you've succeeded in making UQC, UUM, etc. mods popular on the ladder. Finding a ladder game becomes harder. If there is nothing you'd like to join in the game list, or you want to see what all games are available - then you have to log out, select one mod, log on, check the list, log out, select another mod, log on, check the list, etc. And if you host a ladder game - finding players for it also becomes harder because they are all split between different mods and can't easily see your game. It made me sad last night to see Bopper (my favorite host!) having to spam the lobby like the obnoxious noobs do - but how else would anybody know that he was hosting a UQC game? Civ4 doesn't have a good support for modded MP games. If you want to add more variety, custom maps still work. How long do you think it will take for these new mods to become popular? A couple months at least? But in July we are getting a whole new expansion - Beyond The Sword!! Just like with Warlords, most players will switch to it and everything before it will soon be forgotten. Yes, I know, some people still play vanilla Civ4, but the whole point of the mod deal is to bring something new to the ladder community. So you will add that mod for what, 2-3 CCCs, and then the whole thing will migrate to BTS and nobody will care about mods for a long time again. I'm sure that any player hosting a mod game is going to be spamming the lobby to let you know about it. So that "problem" is a little over rated IMHO. Yes it would be nice to have our cake and eat it too, but if you ever played Civ2 or Civ3 you would appreciate the lack of ways to cheat in Civ4. If the cost is a separate games list i think most people can live with that. CS
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Post by Canucksoldier on Apr 17, 2007 18:08:13 GMT -5
well actually we will have the mods moved to BtS also amd by that point they will most likely still be included in the CCC line-up. Yes it only took Primax a couple days to port UQC and UUMad to Warlords, as soon as the SDK is available for BTS the same can be done easily. Yes BTS will bring much in it's own features but only a few will be popular in MP and they won't keep the excitement fore ever, mods are the civing no matter what, C3C has lasted 4 years because of mods. So I'd suggest trying out new tricks rather than remaining bored with the same old games and maps. CS
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Post by goodmyfriend on Apr 19, 2007 2:39:22 GMT -5
Tried the new MOD in general its very nice, no nuks/internet would be a must for CCC IMO, space race shut be off too imo, during the fact that a kill is nearly unpossibel. but over all a nice development and I looking forward to play the CCC with that settings, as all will agree the INDU OCC was a bit boring even I never did bad in it but the game not gives much space for diferent variation of game. With that mod we get plenty, go Oracle, go GL direct, go liberal direct, or go for a ultra quick kill, or skip all and go for space (if its on). concrats and compliment to the admin and programming team for this interesting new idea.
GMF
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axius
Warrior
CCCAC Representative
Posts: 220
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Post by axius on May 3, 2007 13:56:28 GMT -5
I finally managed to find a game with this mod (thanks Bopper), plus played a few of games with AI.
What was the biggest complaint about OCC in general? Its dependancy on luck with resources at the starting loc. Well, this mod only amplifies this problem and makes the game even more lopsided. Everything depends on how much food you get, and this mod takes it to extreme. Without the mod, it at least takes time for the resource advantage to bring results. With the mod, the advantage is right there from the very start and the gap between those who got lots of food and those who got less becomes a lot wider than in the normal game, and a lot faster.
Next thing: variety. "With that mod we get plenty, go Oracle, go GL direct, go liberal direct, or go for a ultra quick kill, or skip all and go for space (if its on)." Try again! Oracle is worthless as all techs research in 1-2 turns anyway. So is Liberalism. GL's worth is greatly diminished as it becomes obsolete way too fast after getting built. Quick kill - when the defending side can easily build a unit per turn when needed without even harming their research, killing somebody becomes almost impossible unless you out-tech them by a mile because you have a lot more food.
More variety? How about LESS? Industrial trait is worthless, wonders get built way too fast even without it. Financial trait is worthless, by the time cottages grow into towns it's time for Biology already. There go such popular early era leaders as Elizabeth, Mansa, Huayna, Ramses, Bismarck. Playing anything but Gandhi, Peter or perhaps Isabella is just silly. Realistically it's a full-blown Gandhi-fest.
To summarize: this mod results in less variety and more dependancy on food resources. It's a bad decision by the TD's to push it into CCC so early.
P.S. And if you still insist on it, increase the time to 130 or 140 turns to give us more chances for Space victory without it requiring a lot of food.
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Post by zzZhenon on May 3, 2007 23:07:14 GMT -5
I disagree slightly. If you use the Peter strategy yeah you don't have enough food. Elizabeth and Gandhi are still valid strats and don't require as much food.
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Post by toratoratora on May 4, 2007 1:39:11 GMT -5
Use HB TBG v3 much better map IMO ask Lestat he loves it
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axius
Warrior
CCCAC Representative
Posts: 220
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Post by axius on May 4, 2007 16:38:23 GMT -5
Use HB TBG v3 much better map IMO ask Lestat he loves it TBG is bad for OCC because having 4 neighbours and having just 2 can have dramatically different outcomes. Now, if somebody could make a HB-type map script that does not allow resources to be overwritten by flood plains... But that all is beside the point. UQC mod is not useful for OCC. It makes the game more lopsided and dependent on luck than without it.
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Post by venceslas on May 5, 2007 4:10:12 GMT -5
Hehe, maybe make a map where there is no resource ;D
chris.
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Post by toratoratora on May 6, 2007 15:29:06 GMT -5
HB TBG V3 as no Flood Plains unlike HB IS V2 and its a Great map trust me! as to where you get it ask Wumy No1 Oh and yes UQC is too fast when ya drunk
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