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Post by avrieeee on Oct 24, 2006 16:42:09 GMT -5
I have just created my account to answer and give the point of View of the Host. At the beginning of the game, about turn 20, MrGameTheory said he had to go for having brunch. He was talking about that few minutes... Then... Nothing... I hadn't seen any message about his problem of brunch, I had concluded he was ok... At least One hour, or 1h30 later, because of lag and because of No ending turns from him. I asked him if he was there... No answer... The other players began to ask to him too and chat about the situation. About 30 turns remening. After 5 more turns, because it was very slow and because almost all players were talking about that, I decided to launch a vote to purchase for a Reload without him. For me it was clear he had let the game running for all the game. The Vote was almost Unanimous (Alice! ! ) and we reloaded the game. Unfortunatly, because of 1 AFK (ALICE ! ) we had to Reload the Game again ! She was back in the lobby after maybe 10 to 15 minutes after the rehost... We decided to reload for her. Unfortunatly we had to reload the game twice more because of Bugs... Maybe 2h30 Afk for MrGameTheory... And he claims a victory? He stayed stuck to 800 points and all remening players were before him at points at the end of the game I hope admin deceise will clean Ladder from such unpolite, annoying and selfich players. If he has logs of thisgame I hope he'll send to admins his language in game to many of us which is "really nice"... A last Thing, I can see some players here with a strange angry behaviour, against new players, or beginners... I'll take attention to not host games with them. Avrieeee PS: Sorry about language Faults; French Player inside.
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Post by tommynt on Oct 24, 2006 16:50:00 GMT -5
GT what u should have done was reporting to all instead u come here makin fun of yourself imo. U broke the ladder rule to be in reload before 10 min gone VERY CLEAR. I have gone afk at ends of game aswell but was allways fully aware that a drop might screw me.
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Post by Bantams on Oct 24, 2006 16:57:26 GMT -5
Jesus MGT just either
A: report to all
or
B:quit ladder
I would for 1 like to see you be a man and do A
[KC]Bantams
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Post by DrShot on Oct 24, 2006 19:35:47 GMT -5
NEVER wrestle with a pig; everyone gets dirty and the pig enjoys it! This is really the only part worth reading in the entire thread. BTW, why is this an open thread, this should be a Admin issue not a public debate. Are all the Admin. at the buffet too? lock this pos thread plz.
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Post by mrgametheory on Oct 24, 2006 21:35:10 GMT -5
3 Things 1) Avreee thank you for that post. 2) These reports are symbolic. I went through all this for the mere principality that I will not allow players to break or bend ladder rules at my expense. I could care less about my record or rank. 3) Not that it matters anymore, but at the point of restart I was ahead by 165 points and it was my stupid AI which caused my points to drop PS I didn't make the rules, but I will be damned if a bunch of newbies will bend them to their will. And to the Admin handling this situations, hopefully its still Speaker, The confession speaks for itself. And to everyone else Have a Nice Day
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Post by whiplash on Oct 24, 2006 21:57:56 GMT -5
I think it's kinda weird that the CIV4 game even allows the opportunity for someone to win the game while being afk for 1/2 hour while the game is running. Not much "intensity" in that.
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Post by Canucksoldier on Oct 24, 2006 23:36:01 GMT -5
NEVER wrestle with a pig; everyone gets dirty and the pig enjoys it! This is really the only part worth reading in the entire thread. BTW, why is this an open thread, this should be a Admin issue not a public debate. Are all the Admin. at the buffet too? lock this pos thread plz. Don't worry the admins are in the process of both ruling on MrGT's specific case and the issue of being AFK for extented periods of time. CS
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Post by Necrominousss on Oct 25, 2006 0:12:20 GMT -5
Well there is always 2 sides to every story. Nice to get a little bit of the others perspective. MGT has been known to ratchet-up up his adjectives and blow stuff out of proportion. I Find it hard to believe he actually would have won at the end of the game. But why not run just finish the game and find out so no doubts in anyones minds.
If they reloaded just to get rid of MGT, I would consider that sneaky, but, in the end, in my opinion, MGT is the one that should report for not showing for reload. Lets see if I forecast the admins ruling correctly.
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Post by MMV on Oct 25, 2006 13:56:04 GMT -5
My prediction of ladder Admin's rulings:
1 - going AFK for an extended period of time will be ruled as a "game exploit" and requirements will be set forth detailing what will be done (i.e. afk for so many turns, etc etc etc)
2 - mgt will have to report his losses
3 - mgt will receive a minor suspension (maybe 3 days) since no one has "exploited the game" like this before and new rules now have to be made because of it.
I bet the admins are REALLY jumping for joy at having to make "new rules" for a clear "exlpoit" of one person's personal behavior when it's already clearly stated.
Finally, ALL of us on the ladder now get to live with the results of his intentional admitted ladder exploit through the "new rules" set forth because he forced the admins to do it.
THANKS MGT!
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Post by Gogf on Oct 25, 2006 19:42:24 GMT -5
My prediction of ladder Admin's rulings: 1 - going AFK for an extended period of time will be ruled as a "game exploit" and requirements will be set forth detailing what will be done (i.e. afk for so many turns, etc etc etc) 2 - mgt will have to report his losses 3 - mgt will receive a minor suspension (maybe 3 days) since no one has "exploited the game" like this before and new rules now have to be made because of it. I bet the admins are REALLY jumping for joy at having to make "new rules" for a clear "exlpoit" of one person's personal behavior when it's already clearly stated. Finally, ALL of us on the ladder now get to live with the results of his intentional admitted ladder exploit through the "new rules" set forth because he forced the admins to do it. THANKS MGT! You seriously think that being AFK is an exploit?
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Post by mrsaturn on Oct 25, 2006 20:26:03 GMT -5
People complaining that somebody's not hitting the "end turn" button is ridiculous, especially once you hit mid-game. Since that was a reason for spurring the reload, I think it's unfair to penalize MGT.
I'm also hearing two stories here... it's kinda irrelevant to the case, but was MGT still leading after 40 turns of automation?
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Post by DrShot on Oct 25, 2006 20:35:32 GMT -5
lol, getting a lil long winded there MMV, eh? new rules likely will not change past events. new rules will be thought out and prevent confusion in the future. I imagine no advanced degrees will be required for learing new procedures. Conversely some may need a little help following them
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Post by MMV on Oct 25, 2006 23:51:37 GMT -5
the following are some lovely quotes from MGT (in THIS thread) which indicate that he INTENDED to manipulate and exploit the game - and did. (yes, they are NOT the full posts, but they are also NOT "out of context" with what's not posted) I am the King of Automation while AFK I knew I could beat these guys with a self automated Civ Now I understand its a little messed up when I came back to my computer from brunch I dont Give a Flying f**k about morals i attempted to make every resonable effort to continue playin the game and that meant lkeaving my computer on. If the rules will be changed afterwards that is fine there is a reason why this issue has never come up in 1 year and thats because noone does this I TOOK A RISK, IT PAID OFF, I DESERVE THE WIN, THE END mgt STATED he took a risk and also stated he knew that in a year, this had never been done before. he further stated that what he was doing was "messed-up" mgt also states he expects the rules to be changed so no one can do this again and that he has no moral issues with what he did - and brags accordingly. MGT brought this to the forums himself, he turned the spotlight on to himself. He WRONGLY brought it here to the forums as a "case of public appeal" It's not appealing. ================== for gogf - no, I don't think being afk for some occasional turn ending is an exploit, but that's not what happened and can't possibly be construed as such.
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Post by MMV on Oct 25, 2006 23:55:28 GMT -5
what he did is ALREADY a joke all around the ladder with humorous comments in game like, "I'm gonna' pull an MGT here" and "pardon me while I do an mgt"
well, it IS kind of funny, and right now? I'm gonna pull an mgt and stay logged in to the comp and get some sleep.
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Post by zzZhenon on Oct 26, 2006 0:24:26 GMT -5
While MGT didn't do anything illegal, I do think he showed usportsmanlike conduct (which can be interpreted as against the rules) by going AFK for half the game. Going AFK for a few turns is one thing, but leaving for half of a long, boring, and lagging cton is another. Let's not make ctons any worse than they already are. Admins please make a clear-cut and relatively easily enforced rule about being AFK for X number of turns please. I think its lame lame lame, people reloading because someone is afk, if you cant kill a guy thats afk, then you slowed(Slowed? i said ret@rded) IMO! I agree but at the same time, I wouldn't want to waste too many resources on 1 enemy in a cton. It could potentially make you come in 2nd or 3rd, especially if MGT queued up infinite longbows in all cities. Like Yilar said, there's no rule against reloading a game as long as you wait the appropriate 10 minutes. If they didn't wait 10 minutes, then I think no reports should be filed by any player to or from MGT. Chalk it off to unprecedented rule interpretation. We'll know from now on. Perhaps a rule isn't necessary. If all players wish for a reload, except the guilty party, then the players should wait 10 minutes for a response from the AFK individual in regards to a reload. If no response within 10 minutes, they forfeit their vote to reload. They then reload and wait 10 minutes for the AFK individual. This gives the player in question 20 minutes to come back from AFK-land.
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Post by eiffel on Oct 26, 2006 6:51:14 GMT -5
There is no excuse for leaving a game automated without notice, forcing other players to go to end of turn... games are already quite long. That's a lack of respect for other players. I've experienced this situation several times and that's very irritating, even more when it's in a teamer... and even more when the afk player is in your team ;D
I can't believe that such a player can post and complain about how unfair it is to be out of the game after automating his civ. Reporting to all is just a light consequence for unsportmanship and lack of respect.
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Post by Lestat on Oct 26, 2006 10:16:24 GMT -5
Fill in the Blank We can't cover every aspect of gaming in our rules. We have tried to be as thorough as possible and cover all the basics. However, just because something is not listed doesn't meant that it is allowed. Use common sense. If it is something that will adversely effect other players and you might think twice about doing it's probably against the rules. Our staff have the final say in such matters. If you have a specific question please feel free to contact us via E-mail. PS Then afk boy when u will going to mgt next time e-mail admins before it....
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Post by horizon on Oct 26, 2006 10:32:37 GMT -5
U shouldnt be able to walkaway from games like that ... regardless if u can think u can win the game or not ... if ur there playing and taking full timer then fair enough but to admit u left and to complain makes MGT look like a DAMN FOOL!
i never thought he was any good anyway!
PPL are still waiting for you amazing England thoery to beat everyone, playing noobs 5 v 1 on islands kinda makes u look foolish!
only ever time i played NoobTheory he got handled
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Post by KCwillthec on Oct 26, 2006 10:48:46 GMT -5
Hey all, I agree with most of the arguments that it was NOT the right thing to do. Goin afk for a few turns is no prob. Goin afk for 40-50 turns is a whole different story. He admitted that he went OUT for brunch. He wasnt even there. Thereby, he didnt play for most of the game. Why should he get credit for something he didnt even invest the time to earn?
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Post by miserymachine on Oct 26, 2006 11:22:50 GMT -5
This is woeful MrGameTheory. This attitude is shocking. It is sad that you cannot see it, and sad that there is so much support for it.
A complete lack of respect for the 'unworthy' (i.e. others) and an ugly holier than thou attitude seems unfortunately prevalent amongst the so-called 'elite' of this ladder.
i.e. my last 3 cton encounters with 'elites' from this thread represent my 3 ugly games out of around 30 pleasant and fun games in the last several months.
1st game - Tony. My first cton with this guy. Couldn't remember the last time I heard so many excuses and whining. There is no need for it Tony. He was my neighbour and I was pleased for the oppurtunity because I played with him in a teamer once and he seemed very good (was very short 4v4 teamer, me and Tony kill a guy in no time, EBD quits in disgust with lots of whining and game is over).
So in the cton I attack him (cos he's my neighbour, not cos he's Tony). And I never heard so much whining and excuses before. Yelling luck luck luck fifty times despite that nothing that was remotely unusual. Alternating all the excuses with smug things like 'you don't possibly think you are going to win do you'. So I smash his front city and hold his counterattacks easy booming my economy for a solid win. No gracious GG like everyone else who plays. More 'lucky' insults and woulda coulda shoulda.
I was being polite still, but it left a bad taste in my mouth and bad impression of Tony (and I imagine shared by everyone else who was in the cton), which is unneccessary and unfortunate.
2nd game - MissLadyLuck mentioned in this thread. My first and only game with her in a cton. Proves to be my neighbour again. I go with early warrior harrassment causing her some grief. She makes whiney comments when I survive attacks, but not when she kills one of mine of course. Then she is starting to get on top of the harrassment and has 3 warriors when I am next to her with one. She takes what I consider to be collosal and crazy risk and sends all 3 at me (mid turn) and misses by chance as I simultaneously move to another adjacent city square. So her city now open. New turn starts with me obviously mashing the number pad trying to beat her to it, which I do killing her.
She screams and rants and calls me a dirty player for beating her in, and how she has no respect for players who do that. I point out that the simple fact that she is the one that took the risk of moving 3 units out of a city - which woulda ended the harrassment if it paid off, but it didn't. She suddenly starts saying the computer did it and it wasn't her fault and I am a dirty player for taking advantage and she has no respect for such dirty players.
I had never even heard such a crazy excuse and got such unfounded abuse in my civ4 ladder life and then she left to a cton full of 'LOLs' and 'thanks Misery' and 'wtf is that!'. I go on to win game and everyone leaves with not much of an impression of MissLadyLuck.
3rd Game - MrGameTheory here. 4v4 BT Teamer. MGT opens with all this smacktalk you have no chance of winning kinda stuff. I was liking that. He is so c0cky and rude, makes for some fun and I did not think he was being serious. He demands to know who wants to die first and says he will follow request. I am very happy and say me first please.
Longhorn is my opposite but MGT is close next to him so it works out well. I plough through longhorn first with help from Pangea and he is dead in no time. Notagoodname takes out our ally Cav15 about same time so game is nice and even. I repel MGT harrassers and go all-out assault. He is proving very good but makes one error and I capitilise on it destroying a city. He rants and whines like a baby for rest of game. He calls me a cheater saying it was a double-move (it was not, exactly 8 seconds...I actually was paying attention). He screams how the admins are in his pocket and he is the most influential player in all of Civ4 and he will have me banned. I am saying, get a grip, it was not a double move you monkey. You were beaten fair and square, suck it up.
Meanwhile, I build a force against another city of his. Large mixed force of mine, large mixed force of his. I move into adjacent square ready for siege because I cross point where counterattack will be extremely unlikely to beat my stack. He attacks and loses, handing me the game. He is screaming about how the gods intervene and I am dirty cheater. I say "are you crazy!?! That attack was doomed". He is shouting "impossible, I did the math". He messed the math. And that was MGT dead and game over. Instead of a gracious GG it's more shoulda woulda couldas and more cheat accusations going on about the double-move that never happened.
Bad taste in the mouth again. Another rude 'elite' who can't conceive that anyone not the 'club' could beat them, and show no respect to the other players in the game, and look totally ridiculous as they whine and make the kinds of accusations and excuses used by primary schoolers when beaten.
I know I am not in 'the club'. I still got booted from the teamer only 4 days because I'm 'nobody', despite my stats which many people consider totally worthless except rank, which I have never had and never will because I don't play often enough. I am by no means the best player, but I am actually proud of my stats and feel I have earned the right not to be booted for fear of bad play.
But from my experiences of the 'club' and reading the outrageous attitudes expressed in this thread, I have to say that I honestly don't know why in the hell I was ever trying to get accepted. This was my first check of these forums in many months and will be my last as there is little here but an all too dominant attitude of maliciousness and bitterness.
It is only a matter of choice.
You all get to choose what you want this community to be, and how you want to lead it.
I hope common sense prevails when the admins make this ruling as to me this decision has more repercussions for this community than just a new rule and that is the reason I have posted.
MiseryMachine.
Found some quotes for you to consider MrGameTheory:
“I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel.” - Maya Angelou
“You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him.” - James D. Miles
"We aim to develop physique, mentality and character in our students; but because the first two are menaces without the third, the greatest of these is character." - Joseph Dana Allen
"Every man has three characters—that which he exhibits, that which he has, and that which he thinks he has." - Alphonse Karr
"Character is power; it makes friends, draws patronage and support and opens the way to wealth, honor and happiness." - J. Howe
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