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Post by miserymachine on Jul 6, 2006 12:28:30 GMT -5
Hi. I am not really into forums but this is what I came to post the other day when I got sidetracked reading stuff and posting in records instead. I doubt anyone here cares what i have to say, but it seems like I'm not alone so maybe it's still worth saying.
Basically, I just don't get why so much prejudice by the people here against anyone not in the IN crowd, which seems like a pretty big but tight group to me. I don't know what it takes to get into a teamer game but I think it seems pretty crazy.
I thought it was smack talk was the problem because when I started up 3 months ago I come from an RTS crowd where we like getting into the competition spirit and working up a sweat. But it don't go down well here and you people dont like it, so I toned it down like one week after starting here and have been mister polite since.
It hasn't helped. In 3 months now I am still never once in all this time been able to get ONE SINGLE team game though I have seen well over a hundred launched and asked and begged for the pass for at least fifty, usually to be totally ignored, but when replied it's always to say I'm not known or I'm probably a noob, ignoring my claims to contrary or saying stats mean nothing. I have sat in that room watching team games start, fill and launch for hours, always settling for 1v1s or the occasional cton. So time doesn't seem to help cos if you can't get one in 3 months... in a game, well there is no debate about time is there.
And skill don't seem to mean anything here either which is why I am now despite liking this game, wondering why and what. I mean really, in 70 games (ladder, 100s of open) or so over 3 months I am usually ranked in the top 5 in all the charts that seem to say something to me, like win percentage and skill, but still never got higher than rank 59 because none of the ranked players will ever let me into a teamer or their private ffas so I ultra rarely get to play anyone with ranks better than 50.
So, maybe before I go crazy figuring why the MP situation sucks so bad you can tell me why you have this prejudice in Civ4. Is it deliberate strategy to scare off anyone new from trying? Are you all like from the same school or town or something and don't like outsiders? I could understand that.
It hit a new low for me yesterday with the other type of prejudice, flaming ping prejudice. I actually got into a 10 player cton with a bunch of actually decent ranked people. I was like HOLY CRAP! And turn 10 they asked me to leave cos of my ping. I was 450 to two people, and 350 or less to everyone else, and 5 people chimed in agreeing then that I must leave for the good of all (which I figured means good of the IN group). Inside I'm like WHAT THE F&^%$# YOU MUST BE F%$&CNG KIDDING ME. Especially being Incan in a renny cton with 2 horse, gold, and endless flood plains. But I was, wait, no no Misery, no smack talk here, "Huh... Sure guys. NP. I'll go. Bye..."
I realised today when I started playing cossacks instead of civ4 without thinking, that it was like a final straw destroying my will to log in. I think I need a break and will try MP again when the expansion comes out.
In meantime maybe you can tell me what I have been doin wrong. If its not about being polite and its not time and its not skill, then what, a secret pass for goods that you all know? (we had one in AoK but noone here answers when I ask). You are all beta testers? (an issue in SWGB) You all wanna protect your ranks (an issue with arseholes)? You are all xenophobes? (an issue with rednecks...). Thats getting into pickin a fight but by the end of writing this I realised also that I dont think i care anymore about being polite. Lucky I finished.
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Post by zzZhenon on Jul 6, 2006 12:49:20 GMT -5
It's nothing personal MiseryMachine. Most teamers at night are Renaissance on Inland Sea where having an "unknown" / new player on the front is a deadly combination. If people played more TBG and whatnot, then sure I think we'd see more new people being invited into teamers.
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Post by Bantams on Jul 6, 2006 13:03:51 GMT -5
If im in a teamer come join me misery i dont mind who plays as long as we have fun neither does uastranger i think
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Post by lporiginalg on Jul 6, 2006 13:09:42 GMT -5
Hey Misery I know your a good player you'ld be welcome in any game I host, just add me to buddy list if you see me in lobby. I've actualy taken more to hosting open teamers lately with settings that I prefer to play like industrial highlands or medi great plains because i'm sick to death of ren inland_sea as well as all the personality conflict that go on in that 'tight knit group'.
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Post by Elledge on Jul 6, 2006 13:21:30 GMT -5
I was like HOLY CRAP! And turn 10 they asked me to leave cos of my ping. I was 450 to two people, and 350 or less to everyone else, and 5 people chimed in agreeing then that I must leave for the good of all (which I figured means good of the IN group). Inside I'm like WHAT THE F&^%$# YOU MUST BE F%$&CNG KIDDING ME. I hate that nuts too. Somehow apparently Civ4 seems to be overflowing with people who haven't used the internet before and just don't quite get the concept of ping time (not to mention firewalls.)
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Post by lporiginalg on Jul 6, 2006 13:24:14 GMT -5
Ya the funny thing is those people are probbaly all constantly monitoring the pings which only adds to lag.
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nicoya1
Warrior
Tourney Director
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Posts: 253
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Post by nicoya1 on Jul 6, 2006 13:44:13 GMT -5
Yes I have found the same. Took me like 4 months to actually get into a teamer gamer, but I never gave up. Yes there seems to be elite out there that only play with certain ppl. I only played 1 v 1 for the first 3 months I played Civ and I still play 1 v 1 because i like them, maybe I got use to them. There are ppl out there who don't care what the person rank is and play anyone because after all this is just a game where we have[glow=red,2,300] FUN[/glow] and the ladder is just a way to keep a record of your improvement. At least thats what I think about it.
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Post by Lestat on Jul 6, 2006 14:18:19 GMT -5
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[KC]Bopper
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The Knight Who Says 'Giddy-Up!'
Posts: 136
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Post by [KC]Bopper on Jul 6, 2006 14:32:46 GMT -5
Just to add my 2 cents here... I'm fairly recent to the ladder/multipalyer world - joined up about 2 months ago. I've played the solo version of CIV since CIV I and wasn't even aware of the community until I got CIV 4. I got razzed as a noob during my first couple of games but since joining the ladder, I've seen nothing but good sportsmanship. One reason I wanted to join the ladder was to be able to play games that people would at least complete, and not drop because they lost a battle. I have since played with alot of folks in the top 100 and never been made to feel unwelcome. Now if I could only convince my wife that playing CIV is a good use of time...
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Post by Tony on Jul 6, 2006 16:54:17 GMT -5
These threads are pretty annoying IMO, why dont people just host there own teamers? So simple!
Why people always crying over nothing?
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Post by notagoodname on Jul 6, 2006 20:03:02 GMT -5
Inviting newbs into teamers to make up numbers and then booting them once someone better comes along is rude. I waited an hour in a teamer once and got booted at the last minute for someone supposedly better back when i was a newb, very nearly put me off playing the ladder ever again.
If you invite newbs in to your game room to make up numbers and then boot them it becomes personal.
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Post by notagoodname on Jul 6, 2006 20:17:21 GMT -5
And turn 10 they asked me to leave cos of my ping. I was 450 to two people, and 350 or less to everyone else, and 5 people chimed in agreeing then that I must leave for the good of all (which I figured means good of the IN group). Inside I'm like WHAT THE F&^%$# YOU MUST BE F%$&CNG KIDDING ME. Especially being Incan in a renny cton with 2 horse, gold, and endless flood plains. But I was, wait, no no Misery, no smack talk here, "Huh... Sure guys. NP. I'll go. Bye..." No one can judge lag in Civ4 based on ping. I have boradband but I always have a ping of over 300 to Americans and Europeans due to my living on the arse end of the earth. Fortunatly everyone these days knows i am not a lagger. The simple fact is Civ4 only noticably lags when there is packet loss (modem players on poor lines) or when the ping gets to stupidly high levels (well over 500). Ping itself is not any indication of who is lagging the game. I know this from experience after leaving games and being asked to come back as i wasn't the real lagger.
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Post by mrsaturn on Jul 6, 2006 20:21:37 GMT -5
There are top players that are willing to give newer people a try, and there are top players that like to assemble the best players together. You eventually figure out which is which.
Everyone starts out as a noob on ladder teamers... thankfully a few kindly fellows like tommynt, nero, and weaksauce (yes, weaksauce) let me in a few teamers, where I learned the ropes and met some other people. I was only able to do this because some of them played CTONs once in a while... this seems rarer now. I guess the teamer player pool is pretty saturated now, so the tight-knit group isn't worried about keeping away future teamer players since it's so easy to fill up a 10-player teamer nowadays at most hours.
IMHO the Germans seem like the friendliest bunch. ;D
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Post by Avogadro on Jul 6, 2006 22:47:04 GMT -5
Boooo to the host of that game.....
Some players 4 months waiting on teamers??? Don't you guys know that the noobs will learn being at the front just like you learned when you started civ4?
First month ladder opened here I could whip all of you, now that you all been playing a while, I would surely lose. Players must be given a chance to learn, if you wanna have a league that endures the test of time.
If you play same 20 guys over and over...what happens when 8 of them start playing another mp game? Answer is simple, it becomes harder and harder for you to find a good match. But if you take in a noob or two every game then in 4 months everyone is a pro and you never run out of players.
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Post by Elledge on Jul 6, 2006 22:59:51 GMT -5
Boooo to the host of that game..... Some players 4 months waiting on teamers??? Don't you guys know that the noobs will learn being at the front just like you learned when you started civ4? First month ladder opened here I could whip all of you, now that you all been playing a while, I would surely lose. Players must be given a chance to learn, if you wanna have a league that endures the test of time. If you play same 20 guys over and over...what happens when 8 of them start playing another mp game? Answer is simple, it becomes harder and harder for you to find a good match. But if you take in a noob or two every game then in 4 months everyone is a pro and you never run out of players. I'm not saying this is the kindest or best attitude in the world, but my attitude and that of most of the people in my boat is: Here are these guys who are newer to the game. If they land in the front on our teamer and screw up, it honestly kind of ruins the game if everyone else in there is competent, because it's so difficult to recover from an eliminated player. They have to learn somewhere, but can't that somewhere be a cton, a non-ladder game, an ffa, or someone else's teamer? Plus, not everyone gets better in one game at the front. Personally, I feel like a good player with some intelligence and some prior experience is going to be able to play acceptably with minimal advice on the front in a teamer immediately, even in their first game; a crappy player is going to play, well, crappy. There are people who have played 20 games and are among the best; MissLadyLuck is a great example of someone who I think is in my top 10 player list, and got there about the time she played her second teamer ever. There are a lot of people who have played 500 games and are still very poor; I won't name names on this count. We're just looking to have fun. Maybe that's selfish, but it's a video game and that's what we do; we want to relax and play good games and to be honest we really don't want to feel like it's our responsibility to educate new players to the game. There are some people who like doing that and like being of service to the community in that regard, and cheers to them, but I don't want to feel that I am compelled to do that at the expense of my own enjoyment in the game and my friends' enjoyment. Honestly, it feels like this is way out of proportion to the issue. All we're doing is playing games of Civ 4 with each other. We're not harming anyone else in the world. If some friends go out to play soccer every Saturday and you see them at the park, do you get angry if you ask "hey, can I play?" and they say "No, sorry?" Come on.
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Post by mrsaturn on Jul 6, 2006 23:11:53 GMT -5
It was suggested that in Inland Sea teamers, if a new player is in front they can switch out with someone more experienced in the back.
My first 3 teamer games put me in the front, and it was terrifying. There is huge pressure not to screw up, otherwise you think it'll be the last teamer game you'll ever get invited to. Too bad you can't determine placement in the settings.
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Post by Elledge on Jul 6, 2006 23:18:36 GMT -5
Too bad you can't determine placement in the settings. I know, that would do so much to make the game more fun. New players could switch in theory, but in practice nobody bothers, probably because people are scared of having mysterious hotjoining connection problems. There's a lot of pressure, and that's how life is. Frankly even though I am confident that I'm a first-class player I still feel total pressure playing a teamer - almost more, because I know I have a lot of expectations on my shoulders from my team. You just have to be able to handle the pressure and perform at your top level or teamers are not the thing for you. The pressure exhausts me and terrifies me but it thrills me too and it inspires me to kick ass.
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Post by MookieNJ on Jul 6, 2006 23:46:26 GMT -5
It was suggested that in Inland Sea teamers, if a new player is in front they can switch out with someone more experienced in the back. Deyreepher came up with that suggestion. It's too bad this never caught on, I thought it was a pretty decent idea! It would certainly help newer players gain experience in the teamer setting without having to constantly fear death and frustrating their teammates.
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Post by tommynt on Jul 7, 2006 1:22:20 GMT -5
123 MiseryMachine 78-24 10-0 10-1 1830 76.471% +10 3.3 125.2 62.4% 47 1830 +13 dude u r allways welcome in every game i m in - I dont think that u should have problems to get into a teamer with 76% win if there isnt somthing like spot allready promised to some1 else or so. Apart from that there s really allways the option to just host the type of game u like yourself. or ask some friend to do so - also being in a clan is (if it s not kingz ) often like a free entrance card for teamers - btw MUD is looking for 1 or 2 more active player who is a nice guy and want become a good player oh ya and about the pressure to do good - I love that - in a sometimes pretty boring game this lil pressure thing is what can sometimes give u a good feeling when u did good - it s much more there in ccc - thats why i like da kick ass in ccc
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Post by Ellestar on Jul 7, 2006 2:03:09 GMT -5
The simple fact is Civ4 only noticably lags when there is packet loss (modem players on poor lines) or when the ping gets to stupidly high levels (well over 500). Ping itself is not any indication of who is lagging the game. Well, ping itself doesn't mean much. However, from my experience when 2 players with a ping of 450-550 join a game timer moves at a halved speed in big teamers. But one player with a high ping is ok.
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