|
Post by agrokoka on Jan 18, 2006 11:27:44 GMT -5
Hi Let me share with you what I noticed in one of the multiplayer games. map is inland sea, standard size, 8 players players were able to pick civ. player who picked romans, did not accepted default city location, as 95% others do, but he moved his settler 5-6 turns what was very unusual for me. (i scouted him so i have seen what he was doing). He picked one of maybe 5-6 hills nearby and formed his capitol onto it. To my great suprise, when i discovered ironworking, hill he picked was one with the iron ) Now I don't want to discuss here what enormus advantage this player has in early ancient game (pretorian rush), but thing that bothers me is that he choosed one hill of 5-6 hills nearby and something tells me that this case can't be just pure luck. But if maps and resources on the map are generated randomly, as it Firaxis says, with only some irrelevant constants, how this situation can be possible?! regards
|
|
|
Post by Avogadro on Jan 18, 2006 11:55:29 GMT -5
Sounds like coincidence to me..unless there is some new trainor out there. Thanks for the post though we will keep our eyes open. BTW could you PM me the name of player involved?
|
|
|
Post by agrokoka on Jan 18, 2006 12:08:21 GMT -5
yes, at first I thought this is pure coincidence. But I am sure that detail I remembered is at least controversial: He moved his settler PAST two hills that were closer relative to his settler, and picked another hill 2 turns more away. Now, I am not such good civ player, but I think I am good enough to realize how costly is moving your first settler more than 1 or maybe 2 turns - and he did just that which afterwards payed off.
Now luck ? Who knows? Maybe yes, maybe no. But i dont belive in luck until each and every server goes under PunkBuster protection.
I will send you PM with player involved, but please do not escalate this thing as it is really hard to proove anything now , and finnaly, I can not be 100% sure if he was cheating.
|
|
|
Post by cmdishr on Jan 18, 2006 12:41:48 GMT -5
lets see...takes Rome, walks 5 or 6 spaces taking the risk of an early rush and delaying population growth to settle on a hill that just happens to have iron on it?? coincidence?? sure!! its also a coincidence that all those old guys that have hot wives just happend to have a ton of money
|
|
|
Post by Lestat on Jan 18, 2006 12:53:13 GMT -5
Sounds like coincidence to me..unless there is some new trainor out there. Thanks for the post though we will keep our eyes open. BTW could you PM me the name of player involved? I quess that only PM is not enuf AVO. He need to delivery to u screenshots of start position , shoots of scouting, shoot of building cite on iron and how he know that is iron here bc i dnt see resourse below enemies cite... and how close are they settlers at start of game If he scouting rome on start he was realy realy close and this is point for restart... why they dnt restart game bc to close start locations
|
|
|
Post by Avogadro on Jan 18, 2006 14:04:50 GMT -5
PM is enough for now. We have eyes all over the ladder and when someone's name comes up often....we know then to pick it apart.
|
|
|
Post by Tony on Jan 18, 2006 14:49:24 GMT -5
Moving 6 turns for iron is foolish in a cton IMO.
I guess he could have poped bronze AND iron, but most likely explaination is coincidence.
|
|
|
Post by Sidhe on Jan 18, 2006 14:55:09 GMT -5
Agree this is coincidence, if the land he moved to is better than the close hills it may of been worth it, but to me this sounds like flawed game strategy, with iron there he can place a second city or expand into it and the second city can then use the resource boost iron on hills gives, which is pretty great. In the long run there is less benefit to placing on Iron. Placing on hills now that's a different matter
|
|
|
Post by lporiginalg on Jan 18, 2006 14:55:54 GMT -5
It is possible that with wild luck he was able to pop iron working before planting.
I've popped horse back riding on the second turn of an ancient game before.
|
|
|
Post by Sidhe on Jan 18, 2006 14:59:08 GMT -5
Unlikely he could pop 2 huts in 6 turns, but not impossible by a long shot. Good point.
|
|
|
Post by alice on Jan 18, 2006 16:45:48 GMT -5
i poped both iron and bronze on the same turn last game, of course i had neither in my cap and soon fell to tommys axe/spear
|
|
|
Post by longhorn on Jan 18, 2006 16:49:16 GMT -5
Based on the facts given, i think its impossible to make an actual determination of any sort of wrongdoing by the Roman 'lucky' settler.. however I will share an experience with you that I had-- and I am curious to know if this person was host or played with the same host the prior game on the same map.
We played a cton game to conclusion and then another. The host created the same map type for each game and did not take the extra step of claring the cache before making the next game. Well, first thing the host says is things look similar. If the 'randomly generated map' hadn't been identical to the previous game... to the tile. As this player started in the same position he had previously started.. he knew exactly where the resources were.
This may have been befrore the patch, but is it possible that the situation you described could be similar?
|
|
|
Post by friedrichpsitalon on Jan 18, 2006 18:42:19 GMT -5
Without going into details, it would have to be pretty impressive trainer work indeed (much harder than C3C) to create something that would work with MP.
There were a pair of individuals during development who literally spent day and night trying to hack MP - hex editors, you name it. They never succeeded in doing something that didn't trigger an OOS.
I'm not saying it's impossible, but it'd really surprise me if a trainer managed it already. A coincidence is unlikely, but - at least this early - I'd say so is an MP-viable trainer.
|
|
|
Post by tommynt on Jan 18, 2006 18:51:49 GMT -5
these guy most be a big dude - moving 6 turns and then planting ON it - guys .. never ever plant on rescources if u wana do good in this game
still I wonder how the heck the thread starter know the start position and how many hills were in betwenn and how long he moved
ok u can figure time of movement but start position??
btw I can beam bows .. ask ICBM
|
|
|
Post by agrokoka on Jan 18, 2006 19:24:27 GMT -5
i did not know his exact starting pos. When i came with scout, that turn or turn later, he settled into hill. I think it was not default starting position as his score was 14 or so for a first 5-6 turns.
|
|
agent_x7
Settler
Agent of Truth
Posts: 65
|
Post by agent_x7 on Jan 18, 2006 20:32:29 GMT -5
Actually, I feel that he is unlucky because if he had built that city on any other tile he would be getting 5 shields per turn from it. He must be really stupid if he is a cheater.
|
|
|
Post by yyrkroon on Jan 19, 2006 10:15:49 GMT -5
Pre 1.52 it was very possible to do all sorts of "cheats" in MP with custom assets, such as revealing all military units, city locations, resources, etc...
Post 1.52 custom assets are not used in MP. You can't even load MP games in SP mode.
I wouldn't say it is impossible, the question is if anyone has put enough effort into attempting it.
Since everyone has the exe, everyone has access to all the routines used in this game, so someone with enough ASM skills could probably write an external map viewer with all resources revealed.
The key, I think, would be using an external (to CIV) process to completely avoid OOS. Or alternately - and this idea might have some merit - simply use a separate CIV instance (perhaps on another machine). No OOS should occur no matter what you do if there are no other player-peers, so that obstacle to hacking the system would be removed.
That would still be quite a bit to do in a blazing game though. Save game. Load on another machine. Look for resources in hacked game. AND get your moves in on time.
Dunno.
Hmm, another possibility depending on how CIV handles a mod in MP would be to host an MP game with a mod enabled. If the other players get a seamless transfer of the MOD without any sort of message, then it should be possible to mod the game via python to give the host (or anyone else aware of the mod) an advantage. For example, maybe a certain key sequence or hidden "button" might reveal all resources.
|
|
|
Post by MMV on Jan 19, 2006 11:05:18 GMT -5
Hi Let me share with you what I noticed in one of the multiplayer games. map is inland sea, standard size, 8 players players were able to pick civ. player who picked romans, did not accepted default city location, as 95% others do, but he moved his settler 5-6 turns what was very unusual for me. (i scouted him so i have seen what he was doing). He picked one of maybe 5-6 hills nearby and formed his capitol onto it. To my great suprise, when i discovered ironworking, hill he picked was one with the iron ) Now I don't want to discuss here what enormus advantage this player has in early ancient game (pretorian rush), but thing that bothers me is that he choosed one hill of 5-6 hills nearby and something tells me that this case can't be just pure luck. But if maps and resources on the map are generated randomly, as it Firaxis says, with only some irrelevant constants, how this situation can be possible?! regards You "scouted him to see have see what he was doing" Hmmm - well if you saw him move 5-6 turns before settling - ya shoulda' killed him; end of problem.
|
|
reptile
Worker
in desperate need of a new avatar
Posts: 106
|
Post by reptile on Jan 19, 2006 11:59:46 GMT -5
It sounds like a cheat to me, unfortunately.
1st: It is very likely to die, or at least get choked terribly without producing anything in the first 6 turns. 2nd: Good players don´t need to cheat. The good player wouldn´t settle on the iron, he´d rather use the bonus shields and settle next to it. 3rd: He needed to pop bronce and iron working. And he doesn´t have a scout, so it is very, very unlikely. And even then, would you move around several turns with your first settler just hoping to find an iron "somewhere"?
The only other thing I could imagine would be that he recognized this map from the game before - that weird map in cache thing.
|
|
|
Post by ironclad on Jan 22, 2006 12:35:53 GMT -5
if he was host maybe he didnt delte cache and had same exact map and if he chooses the same civ he will be in exact same place.
|
|