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Post by Tony on Nov 20, 2007 17:05:17 GMT -5
Badseed IMO you are being just as ignorant as TGS, you are trying to defend something you, probably, dont understand.
Until you have read and understood something, in this case the Quraan, you are not qualified to make a definate comment, of course this applies to TGS too, about whose is in the right and wrong.
For all you know your friend, Ham, might be the biggest sell-out and not doing as his religion is asking him to do. Just because his behavior is acceptable to you it doesn’t mean its correct, speaking purely from a religious view point.
From what I've heard and im aware alot of it has probably been taken out of context, there are huge clashes between, western culture and islamic teachings. I see 2 solutions for these differences:
1) The west must changes its values a litte, which is already evidant in the england, a country alot less religious then the US.
2) A huge majority of muslims have to accept the "moderate" interpretation of the Quraan.
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Post by DrShot on Nov 20, 2007 18:18:42 GMT -5
OMG LOOK OUT IT'S A LIBERAL!! AAAIIIIIIEEEEE! It's difficult to make TGS and Doc understand when they ignorantly use the word liberal as if it were a racial slur On the very rare occasions i have said liberal it has not been with malice. My use of the word directly coincides with the belief system or agenda the other party has displayed. This in fact makes them a Liberal by definition, not by my opinion. If you perceive my use of said word as an insult perhaps your feeling guilty... I am not sure I would go as far as to say the State "properly" taxes gaming etc etc... To shelter your chidren from uncle JimBob's southern lexicon is doing them no favor. They should be afforded the op. to hear bad things then have someone with more scope of reality (hopefully parents) discuss the differing terms and why some form of speech are acceptable and others are not. This will only be for the ultimate benefit of your chidren. White trash - white nigar are the same IMO nigar, as I was saying has transgressed far from simply a racial term to a term indicative of mentality, value(lack there of) and attitude and the like. These surely do transgress race! Other terms have not 'progressed' (for lack of a better way of putting it) or evolved so far yet to escape their religious or racial classification. Example: Jewish or Jew can be used to describe a person of certain faith. Cannot this term also be used in a demeaning manor as ' Pat is a real Jew, he would not let me borrow $10' Pat's actual religion is irrelevant to the degree of his gender and or race. Therefore to say nigar is limited to Negro's is not true. This term has made the leap to a adjective or verb in some instances, not simply a noun. To say someone is a spicc(Spanish, not a Mexican as many think) or a Dink or other mentioned terms are still used in noun form. They represent a specific classification of peoples. Good bad or indifferent this is clear cut: Basically this comes down to parts of speech. Damn spell checker wants to correct my spelling of nigar- heh
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Post by TheBadSeed on Nov 20, 2007 19:23:25 GMT -5
I like to think I'm debating the issues of our time with a fellow civver. I have no negitive feelings toward TBS. Infact, I've learned a lot from him and this hole discustion. As for the Dog guy, I think its totally lame he can be sued. If there are hard feelings, the people liable would be the people that released the tape. If I found a secret tape of Hitler blasting the Jews, and I played it, and the Jews where offeneded, Do they sue Hitler? Glad you feel that way, TGS, debates can get contentious at times, but I certainly still like you and respect you. As far as Hitler being sued by the jews: 1: Hitler's dead 2: The German Government has been sued at least 100 times by the Jewish people for the treatment of the Jewish people both before and during WWII, as well as over material possessions stolen by the 3rd Reich from the jews. Many of these lawsuits have been successful. The most recent one that I can remember was only a few years back, over some paintings. 3. The Nuremburg trials tried many hundreds of German officers and lawmakers, mostly over their handling of the Jews during WWII, as that was the most heinous of the war crimes during WWII. For most of them, "I was only following orders" did not save them from execution. 4. Had Hitler been sued by the Jews while he was in power, the Jew in question would have summarily been put to death, as Germany during that period was not a country ruled by law, or decency. We are.
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Post by thegreatsatan on Nov 20, 2007 23:29:21 GMT -5
I like to think I'm debating the issues of our time with a fellow civver. I have no negitive feelings toward TBS. Infact, I've learned a lot from him and this hole discustion. As for the Dog guy, I think its totally lame he can be sued. If there are hard feelings, the people liable would be the people that released the tape. If I found a secret tape of Hitler blasting the Jews, and I played it, and the Jews where offeneded, Do they sue Hitler? Glad you feel that way, TGS, debates can get contentious at times, but I certainly still like you and respect you. As far as Hitler being sued by the jews: 1: Hitler's dead 2: The German Government has been sued at least 100 times by the Jewish people for the treatment of the Jewish people both before and during WWII, as well as over material possessions stolen by the 3rd Reich from the jews. Many of these lawsuits have been successful. The most recent one that I can remember was only a few years back, over some paintings. 3. The Nuremburg trials tried many hundreds of German officers and lawmakers, mostly over their handling of the Jews during WWII, as that was the most heinous of the war crimes during WWII. For most of them, "I was only following orders" did not save them from execution. 4. Had Hitler been sued by the Jews while he was in power, the Jew in question would have summarily been put to death, as Germany during that period was not a country ruled by law, or decency. We are. If I made a tape of Jack behind his back in a private conversation, and on it he is blasting the Jews, and I played it for the world, and the Jews get offeneded, Do they sue Jack? BTW Liberals, now that the court of public opinion has convicted me of being a hater/racist/bigot/idiot, what punishment do you think I deserve? What do you do with people like me? What would you do to Jack?
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Post by DustyDragoon on Nov 20, 2007 23:55:53 GMT -5
Bah I hate religion, so many use it for a means to an end that it completely kills what it was originally started for. To give one hope in the hereafter. Religions of one form or another have been around for longer than most can date. All civilizations in all parts of the world have had some form of god in which they believed was there to guide them. Ok, I have no problem with that, if you are "religious and follow the doctrine of your religion for what it was set up for, that's great. All the more to ya. Here's what makes me laugh though. The muslim, jewish and christian religions all beleive in the same god. Their holy books all begin in much the same manner. But yet for some strange reason some fanatics decided that there "same god" wanted the others all dead. Only they were the true believers. Only they deserved a place in "heaven". B.S. No where in any of the three books is it written to go out and kill your brothers even though they worship Me. No these fanatics are people very simular to the ones I know we have right here in North America. Only here the "Christian" ones are just out to get your money and get rich in the Name Of Jeeeeeeeesus. The so called muslim worshipers are very simular in that (Osama Ben Lama) they murder and say it is what their god wants. Well it ain't. Any real muslim will tell ya that. I've read all three books and a few others and no where did I read that. So though I agree 911 was a Horrible thing, however so was WWII, and we don't slam the whole German and Italian and Japanese race do to the acts of what their races have done in the past. What about the Civil War. Though there are still some tensions between the North and South in the States I beleive most is forgotten. The unjust treatment of the Blacks in slavery, should we all be shot and put in hell for that? Getting caried away I know but I think you should get my point. Yes get Osama and string him up and castate the bloody ass for all I care. But not the entire Muslim race. Most of them were just as disgusted by his act of cowardice as you and even more so since he stated he is doing it in the name of their religion. Nuff Said shut up Dusty
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Post by DrShot on Nov 21, 2007 4:57:19 GMT -5
I thought you layed off the sause, DD?
Actually I think your just ranting because you missed the religion lottery in the last game you played ;D
Yea, I get so damned irratated when I see body counts of lives lost in Iraq, running totals. Obviously it is bad to have people die that you care about, be it citizens of your country or otherwise.
Lets put this into perspective... You mention WWII , fine place to start. Take a battle of note and look at the figures (casualties). How many US- not even total deaths, occured on the FIRST DAY of the landing on Iwo Jima...
"Even before the attack, the Navy's bombardment of Iwo Jima cost more ships and men than it lost on D-Day, without making a significant dent in the Japanese defenses. Then, beginning at 9 a.m. on the 19th, Marines loaded down with 70 to 100 pounds of equipment each hit the beach, and immediately sank into the thick volcanic ash. They found themselves on a barren moonscape stripped of any cover or vegetation, where Japanese artillery could pound them with unrelenting fury. Scores of wounded Marines helplessly waiting to be evacuated off the beach were killed "with the greatest possible violence," as veteran war reporter Robert Sherrod put it. Shells tore bodies in half and scattered arms and legs in all directions, while so much underground steam rose from the churned up soil the survivors broke up C-ration crates to sit on in order to keep from being scalded. Some 2,300 Marines were killed or wounded in the first 18 hours. It was, Sherrod said, "a nightmare in hell."
I found this on the net. I will post the entire article next post, well worth reading, it will take you 2 mins and you will get a lot more oout of it than 2 mins.
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Post by DrShot on Nov 21, 2007 4:59:44 GMT -5
Iwo Jima The famous battle offers lessons for us 60 years later. BY ARTHUR HERMAN Saturday, February 19, 2005 12:01 a.m. EST Sixty years ago today, more than 110,000 Americans and 880 ships began their assault on a small volcanic island in the Pacific, in the climactic battle of the last year of World War II. For the next 36 days Iwo Jima would become the most populous 7 1/2 square miles on the planet, as U.S. Marines and Japanese soldiers fought a battle that would test American resolve even more than D-Day or the Battle of the Bulge had, and that still symbolizes a free society's willingness to make the sacrifice necessary to prevail over evil--a sacrifice as relevant today as it was 60 years ago. The attack on Iwo Jima capped a two-year island-hopping campaign that was as controversial with politicians and the press as any Rumsfeld strategy. Each amphibious assault had been bloodier than the last: at Tarawa, where 3,000 ill-prepared Marines fell taking an island of just three square miles; at Saipan, where Army troops performed so poorly two of their generals had to be fired; and Peleliu, where it took 10 weeks of fighting in 115-degree heat to root out the last Japanese defenders, at the cost of 6,000 soldiers and Marines. Iwo Jima would be the first island of the Japanese homeland to be attacked. The Japanese had put in miles of tunnels and bunkers, with 361 artillery pieces, 65 heavy mortars, 33 large naval guns, and 21,000 defenders determined to fight to the death. Their motto was, "kill 10 of the enemy before dying." American commanders expected 40% casualties on the first assault. "We have taken such losses before," remarked the Marine Corps Lt. Gen. Holland M. Smith, "and if we have to, we can do it again." Even before the attack, the Navy's bombardment of Iwo Jima cost more ships and men than it lost on D-Day, without making a significant dent in the Japanese defenses. Then, beginning at 9 a.m. on the 19th, Marines loaded down with 70 to 100 pounds of equipment each hit the beach, and immediately sank into the thick volcanic ash. They found themselves on a barren moonscape stripped of any cover or vegetation, where Japanese artillery could pound them with unrelenting fury. Scores of wounded Marines helplessly waiting to be evacuated off the beach were killed "with the greatest possible violence," as veteran war reporter Robert Sherrod put it. Shells tore bodies in half and scattered arms and legs in all directions, while so much underground steam rose from the churned up soil the survivors broke up C-ration crates to sit on in order to keep from being scalded. Some 2,300 Marines were killed or wounded in the first 18 hours. It was, Sherrod said, "a nightmare in hell." And overlooking it all, rising 556 feet above the carnage, stood Mount Suribachi, where the Japanese could direct their fire along the entire beach. Taking Suribachi became the key to victory. It took four days of bloody fighting to reach the summit, and when Marines did, they planted an American flag. When it was replaced with a larger one, photographer Joe Rosenthal recorded the scene--the most famous photograph of World War II and the most enduring symbol of a modern democracy at war. Yet, in the end, a symbol of what? Certainly not victory. The capture of Suribachi only marked the beginning of the battle for Iwo Jima, which dragged on for another month and cost nearly 26,000 men--all for an island whose future as a major air base never materialized. Forty men were in the platoon which raised the flag on Suribachi. Only four would survive the battle unhurt. Their company, E Company, Second Battalion, 28th Regiment, Fifth Marine Division, would suffer 75% casualties. Of the seven officers who led it into battle, only one was left when it was over. But the Marines pushed on. Over the next agonizing weeks, they took the rest of the island yard by yard, bunker by bunker, cave by cave. They fought through places with names like "Bloody Gorge" and "The Meat Grinder." They learned to take no prisoners in fighting a skilled and fanatical enemy who gave no quarter and expected none. Twenty out of every 21 Japanese defenders would die where they stood. One in three Marines on Iwo Jima would either be killed or wounded, including 19 of 24 battalion commanders. Twenty-seven Marines and naval medical corpsmen would win Medals of Honor--more than in any other battle in history--and 13 of them posthumously. As Admiral Chester W. Nimitz, commander in chief of the U.S. Pacific Command, said, "Among the Americans who served on Iwo Island, uncommon valor was a common virtue." Yet even this valor and sacrifice is not the full story of what Iwo Jima means, or what Rosenthal's immortal photograph truly symbolizes. The lesson of Iwo Jima is in fact an ancient one, going back to Machiavelli: that sometimes free societies must be as tough and unrelenting as their enemies. Totalitarians test their opponents by generating extreme conditions of brutality and violence; in those conditions--in the streets and beheadings of Fallujah or on the beach and in the bunkers of Iwo Jima--they believe weak democratic nerves will crack. This in turn demonstrates their moral superiority: that by giving up their own decency and humanity they have become stronger than those who have not. Free societies can afford only one response. There were no complicated legal issues or questions of "moral equivalence" on Iwo Jima: It was kill or be killed. That remains the nature of war even for democratic societies. The real question is, who outlasts whom. In 1945 on Iwo Jima, it was the Americans, as the monument at Arlington Cemetery, based on Rosenthal's photograph, proudly attests. In the jungles of Vietnam and Cambodia in the 1970s, it was the totalitarians--with terrible consequences. Today, some in this country think the totalitarians may still win in Iraq and elsewhere. A few even hope so. Only one thing is certain: As long as Americans cherish the memory of those who served at Iwo Jima, and grasp the crucial lesson they offer all free societies, the totalitarians will never win. Mr. Herman, a historian, is the author, most recently, of "To Rule the Waves: How the British Navy Shaped the Modern World" (HarperCollins, 2004).
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Post by Levi on Nov 21, 2007 7:24:03 GMT -5
BTW Liberals, now that the court of public opinion has convicted me of being a hater/racist/bigot/idiot, what punishment do you think I deserve? What do you do with people like me? Your punishment is that instead of buying your next game, you have to buy a word processor that has spell check. Then you have to use that word processor to spell check everything you post here before you post it. Once we have you editing your posts before you post them, maybe your posts will look more intelligent.
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Post by Lestat on Nov 21, 2007 10:13:52 GMT -5
les féminin
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Post by thegreatsatan on Nov 21, 2007 10:38:34 GMT -5
BTW Liberals, now that the court of public opinion has convicted me of being a hater/racist/bigot/idiot, what punishment do you think I deserve? What do you do with people like me? Your punishment is that instead of buying your next game, you have to buy a word processor that has spell check. Then you have to use that word processor to spell check everything you post here before you post it. Once we have you editing your posts before you post them, maybe your posts will look more intelligent. ok, you make me by a spell checker. Whats that, like 50 bucks? So what your saying Levi is that my offences carry the same penalty as not buckling a seat belt? What about my next offence?
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Post by thegreatsatan on Nov 21, 2007 10:53:31 GMT -5
Bah I hate religion, so many use it for a means to an end that it completely kills what it was originally started for. To give one hope in the hereafter. Religions of one form or another have been around for longer than most can date. All civilizations in all parts of the world have had some form of god in which they believed was there to guide them. Ok, I have no problem with that, if you are "religious and follow the doctrine of your religion for what it was set up for, that's great. All the more to ya. Here's what makes me laugh though. The muslim, jewish and christian religions all beleive in the same god. Their holy books all begin in much the same manner. But yet for some strange reason some fanatics decided that there "same god" wanted the others all dead. Only they were the true believers. Only they deserved a place in "heaven". B.S. No where in any of the three books is it written to go out and kill your brothers even though they worship Me. No these fanatics are people very simular to the ones I know we have right here in North America. Only here the "Christian" ones are just out to get your money and get rich in the Name Of Jeeeeeeeesus. The so called muslim worshipers are very simular in that (Osama Ben Lama) they murder and say it is what their god wants. Well it ain't. Any real muslim will tell ya that. I've read all three books and a few others and no where did I read that. So though I agree 911 was a Horrible thing, however so was WWII, and we don't slam the whole German and Italian and Japanese race do to the acts of what their races have done in the past. What about the Civil War. Though there are still some tensions between the North and South in the States I beleive most is forgotten. The unjust treatment of the Blacks in slavery, should we all be shot and put in hell for that? Getting caried away I know but I think you should get my point. Yes get Osama and string him up and castate the bloody ass for all I care. But not the entire Muslim race. Most of them were just as disgusted by his act of cowardice as you and even more so since he stated he is doing it in the name of their religion. Nuff Said shut up Dusty I think everything in the universe is made of 50% positive energy and 50% negitive energy. This means that everything can be bad. In the 1700s the christain churches in europe where running prostitution rings in the back for extra cash. I guess it was "love for Jesus". Islams burned the library of alexandria. Imagine how much cool stuff was in there. Islam is a militant religion. And maybe Islam is just what americas very *friendly* person culture needs. Wrap the women up from head to toe, and if they complain, you just stone them. Not to mention the level of foot hygene will increace making atheletes feet a thing of the past. The local carpet makers bussiness would boom. Seems everyone thinks when I say I hate Islams, that makes me a bigot. But the Islams hate jews/christains/hindus/buddist/communist/aithist/westerners. I think that one bigot hating another bigot neutrals out Here are some quotes from the religion of pieces O Prophet! Make war against the unbelievers [all non-Muslims] and the hypocrites and be merciless against them. Their home is hell, an evil refuge indeed." (Koran, 9:73) "When you meet the unbelievers in jihad [holy war], chop off their heads. And when you have brought them low, bind your prisoners rigorously. Then set them free or take ransom from them until the war is ended." (Koran, 47:4) "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and his messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be to be killed or crucified, or to have their hands and feet chopped off on opposite sides, or to be expelled out of the land. Such will be their humiliation in the world, and in the next world they will face an awful horror." (Koran, 5:33-34) "When we decide to destroy a population, we send a definite order to them who have the good things in life and yet sin. So that Allah's word is proven true against them, then we destroy them utterly." (Koran, 17:16-17) "In order that Allah may separate the pure from the impure, put all the impure ones [all non-Muslims] one on top of another in a heap and cast them into hell. They will have been the ones to have lost." (Koran, 8:37) "How many were the populations we utterly destroyed because of their sins, setting up in their place other peoples." (Koran, 21:11) "Remember Allah inspired the angels: I am with you. Give firmness to the believers. I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: you smite them above their necks and smite all their fingertips off of them." (Koran, 8:12)
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Post by DustyDragoon on Nov 21, 2007 12:03:47 GMT -5
Ah yes, the horrors of war, witnessed them myself, not a pretty site. Waundering in the wasted lands of the 70's in Lebanon having to seive threw dead bodies as we make our way through to see where the rebels may lie next in order to take us out. Nope not fun. A rant ummm yea I'll give you that, letting off some heat cause I'm tired of a "holy religion" being used as an excuse to kill people. Trust me DrShot, with all due respect, I am very aware of what WWII cost us all. And after they took that island they dropped A Bombs on them erasing people that did not even participate in their war. Civilians. Was it needed............... probably. Was it just............. probably not. You can still today go to that small village and see the "shadows" of the people that bomb erased. Again not a pretty site. Einstein himself was embarrassed to say he created the monster that killed so many. Oh and wait, for all you Jewish haters in the States and abroad, he was a Jew. OMG a jew helped to put an end to WWII. Anyways before I go on ranting again ( and I know I do), the article you posted Dr is very well written and said. And does give one pause and to think, what have we done. But what do we do. Do we anialate entire races before they anialate us? If so what will we lose? You know what I'd really like to see? I'd like to see all these pompous ass leaders who sit safely in their hidey holes sending troop by the hundred out to be slaughtered in the name of their GREED, put agaisnt one another. Face to face. No weapons of any sort. Just go at it boys till one of you pommels the other to death. Have fun lol. (Dam I'm ranting again aren't I. sorry).
Later, TGS quotes passages from the Koran, and again it is how you wish to interpret it. True Muslims know they worship the same god as the Jews and Christians, so they also know that Jews and Christians are beleivers. Also, you may want to check who's version you have TGS, cause the one I have is written a little differently. Go figure eh, 2 versions of the same holy book, who would have thought. Also (and I hope you aint a devote beleiver when I say this, if so, no hurt intended) remember they were all written by a man, not a god. They are the words "interpretted" by a man from a god. Boy if these gods could only bring these guys to court think of the money they'd make in slander suits lol. Just to use a more local example of what I mean, there is King James Bible, Gideons Bible, The Good News Bible, and on and on, think in whole there are at least 10 different versions of the Christian Bible. So in order to be a good Christian, guess you are going to have to do some reading up. Poor Christians. And then there are the different factions of the Christian religion, I was brought up Anglican, but there are the Catholics, Mormans, Evangilists, Prodestants, Methodists, Jehovah Witnesses, Baptist, Lutheran, Presbyterian, Pentacostal, and more I can't think of at the moment. Confused yet? Good Greif, by the time ya figure on which book ya ought to be reading, which Belief configures more to the way you want to live your life, you are going to be six feet under anyway lol. And I won't even go into the sub factions of the Catholic and Anglican faiths lol. Anyways I'll stop my ranting now and go sit in front of my TV and turn on......................... Dam it's another Jimmy Baker Holy Revival Special ............click
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Post by TheBadSeed on Nov 21, 2007 13:00:02 GMT -5
[glow=green,2,300]Quotes from the "Good" Book[/glow] On Punishing ‘Immorality’ Leviticus 20:9 If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death. 20:10 If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death. 20:13 If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death. Deuteronomy 22:20-1 If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl’s virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house. Exodus 35:2 For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death. On Destroying Other People Exodus 22:18 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live. Luke 19:27 "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me." -Jesus Christ Deuteronomy 7:1-2 When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations . . . then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy. 20:10-17 When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. . . . This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby. However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you. On the Evil of Biblical Law Ezekiel 20:25-26 I also gave them over to statutes that were not good and laws they could not live by; I let them become defiled through their gifts—the sacrifice of every firstborn—that I might fill them with horror so they would know that I am the LORD. On Slavery & Subjugation of Women Ephesians 5:22-24 Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything. Exodus 21:20-21 If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property. 1 Peter 2:13 Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every authority instituted among men. 2:18 Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh. Leviticus 25:44-45 Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. Please understand, I dont post this because I dislike Christianity. This is solely an example that if you look deep enough into any religion, you're going to find extreme examples of how your faith should be followed. These books were written by men, between 1400 and 3000 years ago. The world has changed, so has our interpretation of these words. There will always be extremists in the Muslim religion who advocate a strict interpretation of the Quraan, just as there will always be extremists in Christianity who advocate a strict interpretation of the Bible. These people dont represent the mainstream of either of their religions.
You will also find people of other faiths that dig out these extreme examples of opposing beliefs and present them as mainstream. They are not. Common sense is enough for me to know that any belief system that preaches nothing but hate and intolerance would not have survived as long as Islam or Christianity have. Both faiths, at their core, are faiths of hope and spirituality. Both these religions were founded in a part of the world that has been in nearly constant strife for thousands of years due to a relatively large diversity among the peoples living there. I would say religion plays a much larger role in that area of the world than it does in other areas solely because of the harshness of everyday life. We, as Americans, (Canadians, Australians, Brits, other members of the developed world) have life pretty good, and religion plays a smaller role, however, if death were a part of our everyday life, I think we might all become a little more religious.
Anyway, enough rambling.
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Post by thegreatsatan on Nov 21, 2007 13:34:12 GMT -5
Ah yes, the horrors of war, witnessed them myself, not a pretty site. Wandering in the wasted lands of the 70's in Lebanon having to seive threw dead bodies as we make our way through to see where the rebels may lie next in order to take us out. Nope not fun. A rant ummm yea I'll give you that, letting off some heat cause I'm tired of a "holy religion" being used as an excuse to kill people. Trust me DrShot, with all due respect, I am very aware of what WWII cost us all. And after they took that island they dropped A Bombs on them erasing people that did not even participate in their war. Civilians. Was it needed............... probably. Was it just............. probably not. You can still today go to that small village and see the "shadows" of the people that bomb erased. Again not a pretty site. Einstein himself was embarrassed to say he created the monster that killed so many. Oh and wait, for all you Jewish haters in the States and abroad, he was a Jew. OMG a jew helped to put an end to WWII. Anyways before I go on ranting again ( and I know I do), the article you posted Dr is very well written and said. And does give one pause and to think, what have we done. But what do we do. Do we anialate entire races before they anialate us? If so what will we lose? You know what I'd really like to see? I'd like to see all these pompous ass leaders who sit safely in their hidey holes sending troop by the hundred out to be slaughtered in the name of their GREED, put agaisnt one another. Face to face. No weapons of any sort. Just go at it boys till one of you pommels the other to death. Have fun lol. (Dam I'm ranting again aren't I. sorry). Later, TGS quotes passages from the Koran, and again it is how you wish to interpret it. True Muslims know they worship the same god as the Jews and Christians, so they also know that Jews and Christians are beleivers. Also, you may want to check who's version you have TGS, cause the one I have is written a little differently. Go figure eh, 2 versions of the same holy book, who would have thought. Also (and I hope you aint a devote beleiver when I say this, if so, no hurt intended) remember they were all written by a man, not a god. They are the words "interpretted" by a man from a god. Boy if these gods could only bring these guys to court think of the money they'd make in slander suits lol. Just to use a more local example of what I mean, there is King James Bible, Gideons Bible, The Good News Bible, and on and on, think in whole there are at least 10 different versions of the Christian Bible. So in order to be a good Christian, guess you are going to have to do some reading up. Poor Christians. And then there are the different factions of the Christian religion, I was brought up Anglican, but there are the Catholics, Mormans, Evangilists, Prodestants, Methodists, Jehovah Witnesses, Baptist, Lutheran, Presbyterian, Pentacostal, and more I can't think of at the moment. Confused yet? Good Greif, by the time ya figure on which book ya ought to be reading, which Belief configures more to the way you want to live your life, you are going to be six feet under anyway lol. And I won't even go into the sub factions of the Catholic and Anglican faiths lol. Anyways I'll stop my ranting now and go sit in front of my TV and turn on......................... Dam it's another Jimmy Baker Holy Revival Special ............click I'm not saying any religion is the right one because IMO none can be. There is no "book" of spiritual truth. If you expect to read a book to become spiritually enlightened, you are mistakin. Spiritual enlightenment is personal. You must have your own relationship with god/ahla/Jehovah/Tom Cruise. You must seek the answers to your questions. It is the journey itself that teaches, not the answer you find at the end. I am pointing out that Islams believe, and I've even heard it said myself, that "jihad is the hight of Islam". I've heard also them preach that "martyrdom is the greatest way to show your love for ahla" I'm sure Islams think I'm a bigot (we established that earlier. I was tried, convicted, and as punishment I must now spell check.) I just don't wanna get stoned (the bad stoned, with rocks) because I'm an infidel. So I resist them every way I can. In fact, they have declared a holy war on me, my family, and my friends. I will not stand by while they enforce there views down my throat. The Afghan/Iraq war is a small punishment for 9/11. What the Islams don't get is that the American populous is heavy into psychotic drugs. If they launch a big enough attack, the American people will go into a phycotic rage. No Islam will be safe.
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Post by DrShot on Nov 25, 2007 0:22:16 GMT -5
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Post by DrShot on Nov 25, 2007 1:20:47 GMT -5
TGS, when did the Christian crusades end? yea, thats what I thought. The book is not taken so literally in most places. Many things were lost in translation from old text to old text and copy to copy: often word of mouth was the bearer of scritpure.
I heard weird things about other books of the Bible that are not in the Bible... gospel according to Peter and such.
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Post by whiplash on Nov 26, 2007 11:29:31 GMT -5
There are many such books. Google "gnostic gospels".
Gnosticism is what TGS pretty much describes in his post. The answer is from within. So, you can basically invent your own religion and achieve salvation without the need for a formal religion. Personally, I think it's idolatry.
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Post by thegreatsatan on Nov 26, 2007 11:57:17 GMT -5
There are many such books. Google "gnostic gospels". Gnosticism is what TGS pretty much describes in his post. The answer is from within. So, you can basically invent your own religion and achieve salvation without the need for a formal religion. Personally, I think it's idolatry. having the answers, nomatter how u get them, from a book/club/yourself don't matter. What matters is the way you live and the effect you have. I could argue that I'm as much a sun of god as jesus. As are the rest of us. I could also argue that there is one bottom line energy that makes up everything. A "force" to rip off starwars. If life energy, God, = X. And say genetics+enviroment = Y. You could argue that everything "is" god. X+Y=you. The answers from within thing is kinda cool. In theory, if there is 1 truth. One guy could be on one side of earth, one on the other, and they both come up with similar anwsers. The 3 major reliogions we debate about all have roots in earlyer religions. But, at one point, religion had to begin. The Maya/aztex and the stonehenge guys had similar religions baced on astrological movement. The movements are the same, even some of the meanings are similar. I bet if you took a group of blank humans, stuck them on a world, let them develope a civilization, they would spawn similar religions every time you try it. Because religion seeks universal truth.
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Post by whiplash on Nov 26, 2007 12:09:09 GMT -5
The problem with gnosticism is that you won't come up with the correct answers, but rather the answers you are "comfortable" with (none of that ten comandments BS) and hence you will have created your own idol.
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Post by thegreatsatan on Nov 26, 2007 12:16:28 GMT -5
The problem with gnosticism is that you won't come up with the correct answers, but rather the answers you are "comfortable" with (none of that ten comandments BS) and hence you will have created your own idol. Then anything that is not god is an idol. Jesus is an idol. Jesus is not god. Jesus is the son of god. Last I chcked, god made me, so that makes him my father too. God says, commandment 1, no gods before me. It don't say, no gods before me but jesus is cool too. If i worshiped myself, then that would also be an idol to the same extent as worshiping jesus
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