|
Post by ajerzguy on Feb 8, 2006 12:26:54 GMT -5
Now naturally I don't too much israelian history, but I remember hearing something about the jews taking the arab land, which later became Israel? Or am I totally wrong? The lands that are now Israel was an action of the UN in 1949. The movie "Exodus" was based on these events.
|
|
|
Post by yilar on Feb 8, 2006 13:09:21 GMT -5
This just in...
According to danish tv the same paper that brought you the muhammed drawings are gonna bring some critizing drawings of christianity and judism...
Man! Everyone is gonna hate us lol.
Edit: Bah, the editor has withdrawn his statement, no pictures afterall.. coward!
|
|
|
Post by whiplash on Feb 8, 2006 13:15:04 GMT -5
PARIS (Reuters) - A French satirical weekly reprinted cartoons of the Prophet Mohammad on Wednesday and published one of its own on its front page, further angering Muslim groups which say the caricatures are blasphemous.
French Muslim organizations tried to prevent Charlie Hebdo reprinting the 12 cartoons, which were first published by the Danish paper Jyllands-Posten, but a court rejected their suit on Tuesday on a technicality.
President Jacques Chirac condemned "overt provocations" which could enflame passions, but did not name Charlie Hebdo in his latest appeal for restraint in a dispute that has triggered violent protests across the Muslim world.
Charlie Hebdo carried the new cartoon on its front page, depicting the Prophet Mohammad burying his face in his hands and saying: "It's hard to be loved by fools".
Sales of the weekly were brisk in Paris. Inside pages showed the 12 cartoons that were first printed in Denmark and included an editorial explaining the decision to reprint them.
"When extremists extract concessions from democracies on points of principle, either by blackmail or terror, democracies do not have long left," Charlie Hebdo editor Philippe Val wrote.
As well as publishing the Danish cartoons, Charlie Hebdo published other cartoons on its back page which caricatured other religions including Christianity and Judaism.
Sources at Charlie Hebdo said some staff had been placed under police protection. Two police officers guarded the weekly's offices in the center of Paris on Wednesday morning.
The parking space in front of the offices was cordoned off and police checked people entering the building, where a sign said no more copies of the weekly were left for sale.
|
|
|
Post by whiplash on Feb 8, 2006 13:35:02 GMT -5
Yilar, it is the Muslim propogandists who want people to believe that the Jews stole Arab land.
Both Jews and Arabs have been living in the area for thousands of years. For a variety of reasons the Jewish People were subsequently scattered around the Middle East, Africa and Europe.
In about 1914 the British government issued what is known as the Balfour Resolution. This was an expression of support for creating a Jewish State in Palestine. After World War I and the collapse of the Ottoman Empire the British became sort of a landlord over the eastern and northern remnants of the Ottoman Empire. The French played a similar role in the west. They drew maps, established countries, and installed kings. The kings propped up by the British were members of tribes and families who helped the British fight the Turks in World War I, and were expected to be loyal to the British Empire.
The British expression of support for a Jewish State had the efffect of encouraging some Jews to emmigrate to the area.
The British influence in the area continued even to the time of World War II. At the end of the war it was a British Proposal to the United Nations that Israel be created in a portion of what was then Trans Jordan. The proposal had broad world support, perhaps stemming from sympathy for the sufferings of the holocaust.
There is a lot of "history" regarding these events on the web. Many sites though are slanted one way or the other. I think that slide show is quite pro-Israel. It's not outright propoganda and lies, but the presentation is biased.
I do agree with the main points though. Anti-sematism has been, and remains today, real and is fostered by the button-pushers to motivate the non-thinkers. Israel is indeed tiny as compared to it's hostile neighbors; it's only 9 million people. There are more people living in Cairo than there are Jews on the entire planet.
|
|
|
Post by MMV on Feb 8, 2006 14:54:11 GMT -5
Now naturally I don't too much israelian history, but I remember hearing something about the jews taking the arab land, which later became Israel? Or am I totally wrong? more complicated. (a VERY brief synopsis) The Brits had "CREATED" a previously unknown country which they called "TransJordan" post WWI (the same time and treaty that "Iraq" was created). The Hebrews (because I hate refering to them as Jews - a religous group) spent a LOT of time and money from the early 1920's BUYING "useless, untenable, desert land" from the rich arab landowners in Syria (while the landowners laughed at the purchases...) - somewhat later, israeli nationhood was founded, the Israelis introduced modern irrigation into the area BEHOLD - lol. TransJordan was a "state" under British Army control with a LOT of "terrorism" from both the hebrew and arabic/palestinian groups. During the entire time, the British were "promising" this land to the arabs.... but after overwhelming conflict and terrorism AGAINST the British by the Hebrews, they literally "abandoned" the land, thus literally abandoning the "palestinean" groups there. VERY shortly thereafter, it became a UN vote as to the creation and recognition of Israel - which won in the UN. (During this UN vote, England voted with "abstain.") of interesting note.... the late Yassar Arafat of the PLO was one of the original palestinean "freedom fighters" as well as the late israeli Menahem Begin, Shimon Perez, Yitzhak Shamir, Yitzhak Rabin (the more recent ones) as some of the original Israeli freedom fighters. (one BIG reason that the above listed israeli govt leaders/former freedom fighters refused to "deal" with Arafat, OLD enemies, VERY old, personal well established enemies of more than 65 years now) to keep it short.......... no, not "taken" by the israelis but more like "abandoned" by the british for the palestinean and israeli freedom fighters to settle amongst themselves. ahhhhhhhhh another case of those former british territories, protectorates, etc, lol.
|
|
|
Post by skidbladnir on Feb 8, 2006 15:05:35 GMT -5
Yitzhak Rabin didnt really refuse to negociate. He was actually murdered in public by a right (cos there are right and left wings in israelian politics too) israelian extremist who thought he was going too far. Very sad day for peace.
|
|
|
Post by whiplash on Feb 8, 2006 15:46:50 GMT -5
|
|
Trayk
Worker
Lets Party at your place!!
Posts: 148
|
Post by Trayk on Feb 8, 2006 16:25:47 GMT -5
We would not find it so funny is if was a caricature of Jesus molesting children now would we? I would be offended by this, BUT it would not give me the right to kill you, or rampage in general.
|
|
|
Post by whiplash on Feb 8, 2006 16:39:45 GMT -5
Back to Yilar's question about just who's land it is. Here's the history of Israel;
Clearly, from the Bible and all other historical accounts the Hebrews ruled Palestine/Israel from ancient times. It was ruled by a monarchy.
555BC - Hebrews defeated by invading Assyrians.
422BC - Assyrians kicked out by Babylonians, Jewish exhile begins.
370BC - Persians invade and defeat Babylonians, Jewish return from exhile. (some)
312BC - Greeks defeat Persians
63BC - Romans invade and expell the Greeks.
312AD - Region is ruled by Byzantines after seat of the Roman Empire shifts to Constantonople
638AD - Muslims under Caliph Omar drive out Byzantines
1095AD - First Crusade, Papal forces take Jeruselem
1291AD - Last (#13) Crusade, Moslems regain control
1917 - Ottoman Empire collapses, British Mandate, Balfour Resolution
1947 - United Nations partition
1948 - Israeli Declaration of Independance
OK, you tell me - who's land is it?
|
|
|
Post by yilar on Feb 8, 2006 17:32:47 GMT -5
Back to Yilar's question about just who's land it is. Here's the history of Israel; Clearly, from the Bible and all other historical accounts the Hebrews ruled Palestine/Israel from ancient times. It was ruled by a monarchy. 555BC - Hebrews defeated by invading Assyrians. 422BC - Assyrians kicked out by Babylonians, Jewish exhile begins. 370BC - Persians invade and defeat Babylonians, Jewish return from exhile. (some) 312BC - Greeks defeat Persians 63BC - Romans invade and expell the Greeks. 312AD - Region is ruled by Byzantines after seat of the Roman Empire shifts to Constantonople 638AD - Muslims under Caliph Omar drive out Byzantines 1095AD - First Crusade, Papal forces take Jeruselem 1291AD - Last (#13) Crusade, Moslems regain control 1917 - Ottoman Empire collapses, British Mandate, Balfour Resolution1947 - United Nations partition 1948 - Israeli Declaration of Independance OK, you tell me - who's land is it? So the brites took over the land in ww1 after the defeat of the turks and gave it to the jews?
|
|
|
Post by Tony on Feb 8, 2006 20:04:26 GMT -5
Saying that beating Israel is just a step before world domination is at best a supposition. Isn't that there objective, if you get rewarded for converting people, your goal IS world domination. Even moderate muslims will say this. Where im from, mosques set up groups of people whose job it is to basiccly go around and premote the religon and see who they can bring to the religion, i even had someone come to my door. I also remember about 7 years ago we had a group of people doing the same thing out side my school, this is when i was 15, also spitting out some nonsense theories about western propeganda. For me the worst part is, these people are seen as doing "good work" amoung there community, i wouldnt be suprised if they are funded by the government, in a typical reckless attempt to build bridges. Yes that presentation is a little far fetched, but also highlights a few key pionts.
|
|
|
Post by whiplash on Feb 9, 2006 10:23:06 GMT -5
So the brites took over the land in ww1 after the defeat of the turks and gave it to the jews? Yilar, the short answer is that the Brit's gained control of the region after WWI under authorization by the League of Nations. They supported the Jews until they were targeted by various Jewish "freedom fighters". In 1948 one of these groups blew up the King David Hotel killing nearly 100. Several officials friendly toward the British were assisinated by these groups as well. The Brits simply got tired of trying to be the referee in a volatile situation and themselves becoming a target of each side. They essentially walked away. Also, on the political front, many in Britain saw the advantages of support for the Arabs and the oil rich country of Saudi Arabia. For a complete picture go here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Mandate_of_Palestine
|
|
|
Post by ajerzguy on Feb 12, 2006 10:42:29 GMT -5
We go from the sublime to the ridiculous when Islamic clerics start calling for the rest of the world to apply Islamic laws in their countries. Such is the case with this;
"Saudi Arabia's top cleric said in a Friday sermon that those responsible for the drawings should be put on trial and punished. " I wonder what the penalty is? Could it be death?
Why should anyone apologize when you have zealots such as; Saudi Sheik Abdul Rahman al-Seedes, the imam of the Grand Mosque in Mecca, called on Muslims to reject apologies for the "slanderous" caricatures. I guess no apology is sincere and only punishment will be acceptable. The Van Gogh family knows what the penalty is.
It's time for the US to take a tougher stance with Saudi Arabia. The world cannot kowtow to religious zealots anywhere in the world irregardless of the religion. We certainly would put a stop to any modern day "Crusades". Islam is not immune in the same regard.
|
|
|
Post by Sidhe on Feb 13, 2006 16:04:07 GMT -5
Unfortunatley the fundementealists and the zealots have the loudest voice in any public debate. Much like they do in the west. I'm not questioning the right to freedom of speech, all I'm saying is just because you have the right to say something doesn't necessarily mean you should.
IMO it's pretty ret.arded to try and enrage hatred amongst the islamic minority that is fundementalism and then to step back and say well it's only freedom of speech like you'd done nothing wrong. It kind of reminds me of the child pushing his brother into the mud and then saying:
'what he fell over?'
All I can say is I'm glad it's illegal to demean a religion, to inflame religious hatred or to publicly belittle people for their beliefs in my country. If that's what passes as freedom of speech these days then you can keep it.
|
|
|
Post by Lestat on Feb 13, 2006 16:09:28 GMT -5
Wot about freedom of speech in CTON games All know where is border line... DONT CROSS IT
|
|
|
Post by Sidhe on Feb 13, 2006 16:35:15 GMT -5
OK technically game revealed who was attacking me as I din't say any names but whatever. Can we just leave it. Yes it was a breach of cton but then so was tommy saying he was bored and was going to kill someone intimating to all that the no2 was about to be attacked, I dont see anyone kicking up a big fuss about that even though it was as big a breach of cton. Just leave it no one cares any more anyway do they?
|
|
|
Post by Lestat on Feb 13, 2006 16:49:57 GMT -5
Sidhe, think you might have missed the point there.
|
|
|
Post by Sidhe on Feb 13, 2006 16:55:10 GMT -5
Probably, what was the point?
|
|
|
Post by Lestat on Feb 13, 2006 16:58:35 GMT -5
HINT :
|
|
|
Post by Sidhe on Feb 13, 2006 18:32:33 GMT -5
yeah yeah I got it, I'm just being deliberatley dim to draw attention to something:) or to reinforce your point
|
|