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Post by MMV on Feb 6, 2006 20:50:47 GMT -5
My point was merely that the Bush administration has installed a fear of terrorism which allows it to keep the power at home. They control the flow of imformation so although freedom of speech may exist it is often ill informed particularily concerning anything muslim. it could be that, or the constant explosions and screams of pain during the immediate post-bombing period. These problems existed WAY before Bush JR. and Bush SR.
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Post by whiplash on Feb 6, 2006 21:16:37 GMT -5
I don't think the purpose was to offend even if they knew it would be offensive. The purpose was to support the free press principle. The reprints were done to say "we have the right to express ourselves regardless of the consequences".
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Post by whiplash on Feb 6, 2006 21:49:37 GMT -5
I find this whole "I'm offended" thing to be total crap. It's running rampant throughout society. Being "offended" by someone who expresses a contrary view to your beliefs doesn't mean the "offender" must suffer some dire consequences. Everyone should have the right to express their views without consequences, other than being made to look like a fool.
I see this problem in contemporary American culture. Some segments of our society hear an expression of what may be regarded as an insult react with "I have been dis'd, that means I can kill him". I see it in this ladder community, "he disagrees with me so I can regard that as a personal attack and I can insult him".
It's really primitive. Civilization is going backwards. And I will go out on a huge limb here, the fundamentalist Muslim movement encourages this primitive reaction to expressions of free speech. Primitive is what they want. They want the world to be just like it was in the seventh century. Primitive is what they can control. They preach that no idea expressed after the writing of the Koran has any value at all.
The world is in the early stages of a cultural war. The world has millions of people who are enslaved by these primitive beliefs. When these millions of non-thinkers are released against the rest of the world we will see massive terrorist atrocities. The backlash from the victims of the terrorism will result in millions of Muslims dead. At some point the free thinking world will say enough of suicidal attacks, enough of this hatred. The consequences will be dire.
It will happen.
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Post by MMV on Feb 6, 2006 22:02:18 GMT -5
The world is in the early stages of a cultural war. The world has millions of people who are enslaved by these primitive beliefs. When these millions of non-thinkers are released against the rest of the world we will see massive terrorist atrocities. The backlash from the victims of the terrorism will result in millions of Muslims dead. At some point the free thinking world will say enough of suicidal attacks, enough of this hatred. The consequences will be dire. EXACTLY - very well expressed.
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Post by yilar on Feb 7, 2006 1:37:02 GMT -5
Muhammed pictures (half way down on the page): HereAlso i suggest you see the frontpage that was brought in the french newspaper les soir.
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Post by Ascension/Necrominous on Feb 7, 2006 8:06:39 GMT -5
Maybe I'll make that my new avatar. What decision would the admins make on allowing that to remain.
Long live freedom of speech and the open exchange of ideas.
Any newspaper that shys away from showing thought provoking articles and cartoons in their commentary sections should just close up shop and print recipe books.
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Post by archon on Feb 7, 2006 10:30:00 GMT -5
Iran daily holds contest for Holocaust cartoons Tue Feb 7, 2006 9:19 AM ET
TEHRAN (Reuters) - Iran's best-selling newspaper has launched a competition to find the best cartoon about the Holocaust in retaliation for the publication in many European countries of caricatures of the Prophet Mohammad.
The Brussels-based Conference of European Rabbis (CER) denounced the idea and urged the Muslim world to do likewise.
The daily paper Hamshahri said the contest was designed to test the boundaries of free speech -- the reason given by many European newspapers for publishing the cartoons of the Prophet.
"A serious question for Muslims ... is this: 'does Western free speech allow working on issues like America and Israel's crimes or an incident like the Holocaust or is this freedom of speech only good for insulting the holy values of divine religions?'" the paper said on Tuesday.
Davoud Kazemi, who is in charge of the contest, told Reuters that each of the 12 winners would have their cartoons published and receive two gold coins (worth about $140 each) as a prize.
In Paris, CER President Joseph Sitruk, who is also Chief Rabbi of France, said: "The Iranian regime has plummeted to new depths if it regards the deaths of six million Jews as a matter for humor or to score cheap political points.
"Sadly, we are not surprised by this action," he said, recalling Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's calls last year for Israel to be "wiped off the map" and his dismissal of the Holocaust as a myth.
In a statement issued by the CER, which represents chief rabbis from over 40 European countries, Sitruk said the Iranian government menaced Jews and the whole international community.
Sitruk noted that European religious leaders had condemned the publication of images likely to offend believers' feelings.
"This is a test for the Muslim world to react immediately to condemn their own co-religionists in Iran for such obscene behavior as we condemned those who sought to insult them," he said.
Iranian protesters hurled petrol bombs and stones at the Danish Embassy in Tehran for a second successive day on Tuesday.
Iran announced it had cut all trade ties with Denmark because of the cartoons and hundreds of protesters hurled rocks and fire bombs at the Danish embassy on Monday night.
A Danish newspaper first published the cartoons in September, and newspapers in Norway and a dozen other countries reprinted them last month.
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Post by ajerzguy on Feb 7, 2006 12:20:43 GMT -5
What is unfolding here is both telling and amazing. This has shown that the Muslim Fundamentalist religion has "A plan", not so dissimilar than that of the Cylons in Battlestar Gallactica. The scary part is that the Muslim "plan" is real.
If fundamentalist Muslims can obtain the backing of the general religious population and there are 1.2 billion Muslims throughout the world this can lead to a modern day Holy War. Yes a Jihad, fueled by rogue states that have or soon will have nuclear capabilities.
A depiction Mohammad as leader of the religion that has adopted terrorism as a means to gain an end only shows that their goal is not just those areas of the world that have been Muslim throughout history.
Indonesia, Europe, Southern Asia, and the United States has more Muslims residing in them now than all of the ancient Muslim countries combined at one time.
Iran is the birthplace of the modern Islamic movement. It started in 1979 when the Ayatollah Khomeini departed his safe haven in England to return to Iran and assume the role of leader when the Shah of Iran was deposed. One of the first steps taken was to imprison US citizens for 444 days. An ineffectual President Carter was unable to free them. Of course when the "luny" Reagan was elected it took all of a couple of days after his inauguration to secure their freedom.
During his exile in England I can guarantee you Khomeini was not playing "pong" as he waited to return to Iran.
Saddam Hussein went to war with Iran to keep Iraq non-sectarian, not to conquer it. And the Americans in their attempt to aid the Afghanis in their defense of the communist Russians also aided the Fundamentalist movement. Europe adopted the EU and open borders which allowed the migration of Muslims (both peaceful and militant) to move freely around Europe. There is plenty of blame to go around leading us to where we are now.
The major question confronting all of the civilized world is; " How can we deal with our present circumstance"? Iran does not stand alone as North Korea does in it's pursuit of nuclear weapons. Even those moderate Muslim countries which are governed by Monarchy's turn a blind eye to the possibilities. The recent escape of Al Qaida terrorist from prison in Yemen shows that either the ruling government is unable to control or is either complacent or even co-conspirators is very disturbing. Pakistan's which already has nuclear capabilities and is a Muslim country could be overthrown as the monarchy in Iran was in the past, ally with the the Fundamentalist nuclear capable Iran. What chance would Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Jordan or Kuwait have against these two powers? I believe the destruction of Israel will embolden and solidify the Muslim movement world wide.
During the cold war "mutual destruction" was the deterrent. Do you honestly think that a "cause" that terrorizes worldwide with suicide bombers would, kill their own for the "cause" actually take that into consideration? I don't.
Civilization as we know it is at a crossroad right now. A counter plan to address this threat must be taken up by all that are peaceful before it's too late.
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Post by whiplash on Feb 7, 2006 12:36:13 GMT -5
It is too late.
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Post by yilar on Feb 7, 2006 13:24:15 GMT -5
lol
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Post by MMV on Feb 7, 2006 16:05:59 GMT -5
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Post by skidbladnir on Feb 8, 2006 5:59:16 GMT -5
now that's a serious piece of crap MMV
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Post by whiplash on Feb 8, 2006 7:34:59 GMT -5
now that's a serious piece of crap MMV Care to elaborate, Skid?
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Post by Ellestar on Feb 8, 2006 8:02:31 GMT -5
And the Americans in their attempt to aid the Afghanis in their defense of the communist Russians also aided the Fundamentalist movement. No, wait a second. Americans helped afgan terrorist bands (who also were fundamental muslims) to overtake a legal Afganistan civil government that tried to suppress muslim religion. A civil government that was supported by USSR.
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Post by MMV on Feb 8, 2006 9:28:40 GMT -5
now that's a serious piece of crap MMV perhaps - but it's historically accurate.
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Post by Avogadro on Feb 8, 2006 10:01:44 GMT -5
Dunno but depicting a cultures prophet, one who has spoken directly to God, with a bomb under his turban? It's woudl be oone thing to depict extremista as lunatics quite another to insult God himself.
Here we laugh at cartoon pics of catholic priest and children..hehe We would not find it so funny is if was a caricature of Jesus molesting children now would we?
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Post by yilar on Feb 8, 2006 10:07:53 GMT -5
Dunno but depicting a cultures prophet, one who has spoken directly to God, with a bomb under his turban? It's woudl be oone thing to depict extremista as lunatics quite another to insult God himself. Here we laugh at cartoon pics of catholic priest and children..hehe We would not find it so funny is if was a caricature of Jesus molesting children now would we? Naturally most christians wouldn't but that doesn't entitle him to immunity... Oh and I agree with skid, that slideshow is a bit over the top... It implies that all muslims are evil...
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Post by ajerzguy on Feb 8, 2006 11:45:37 GMT -5
Dunno but depicting a cultures prophet, one who has spoken directly to God, with a bomb under his turban? It's woudl be oone thing to depict extremista as lunatics quite another to insult God himself. Here we laugh at cartoon pics of catholic priest and children..hehe We would not find it so funny is if was a caricature of Jesus molesting children now would we? Naturally most christians wouldn't but that doesn't entitle him to immunity... Oh and I agree with skid, that slideshow is a bit over the top... It implies that all muslims are evil... Their complicity makes them equally guilty. No other religion practiced has a devoted blind eye following equal to the Muslim religion. Deep down they probably hope the extremists succeed. What part of that slide show is fabricated or inaccurate? The PLO emblem which was worn by Arafat depicted a map of the middle east with no Israel. The Hammas has vowed publicly to destruction of Israel at any cost. Jews were oppressed for thousands of years. I guess some only see the near past and the present. Had the supporters of the Jew haters now lived 200 years ago they probably would have supported the Jews.
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Post by yilar on Feb 8, 2006 12:02:57 GMT -5
Now naturally I don't too much israelian history, but I remember hearing something about the jews taking the arab land, which later became Israel?
Or am I totally wrong?
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Post by skidbladnir on Feb 8, 2006 12:24:26 GMT -5
about the slide :
Saying that beating Israel is just a step before world domination is at best a supposition.
Taking saoudis textbooks as references instead of plenty of other possible Coran interpretations is misleading if not deceiptive.
The map shown doesnt say anything about the multiple wars and tensions between countries with not the same muslim orientation or even having the same.
Presenting the war in Kosovo and Bosnia as the initiative of muslims is just plain wrong, it's Milosevic who repeatedly called for "ethnic cleansing" in the region before actually putting it into practice. Presenting any of the wars in Iraq as the consequence of religious hatred is wrong as well. In the first one, Iraq invaded.. Koweit. In the second one, it was Iraq that got invaded by the US, on facts now admitted to be wrong (WMD...)
I dont see what figures about muslims living in Europe have to do here. Unless you say those 6 M are all extremists.
I see even less what link there is "between Radical Islamists and Leftists in Europe". I mean, I live there, and can tell you that the most active fight against extremisms comes from "left" papers. Every Church on the other hand, support its colleagues. The Catholic Church took the occasion of those cartoons to ask for respect for Islam AND the Catholic church too. This union of the extremisms has a reason : subbing Law, Republican values with Communitarian ones. The Catholic Church here in France for instance was insanely negative during the 1905 Separation of State and Church Law celebrations. Not surprising will you say, but the ennemy isnt Islam as a whole, its all radicals, whatever their religion is.
Deep down you're probably a muslim yourself and therefore know how they all feel, dont you?
The fact that Israel was created on lands that had become arabs since the diaspora certainly hurt a lot of muslims, that doesnt make them all extremists or willing to take over the world.
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