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Post by rupman on Jul 25, 2006 9:08:54 GMT -5
Keep in mind that your are all talking about anc ctons. Ren ctons are a little different. I have killed the entire field in a ren cton with a stack of cavs(maybe 20 or more). In ren ctons I also like going for Demo if I can at some point and them switching to universal sufferage and buying even more cavs. In one Ren Cton I was bogged down in a war with PBB for most of the game that hampered my score, but I was teching well enough because I had a gold mine in my cap that I got to cavs before everyone and some people went the Ed-Lib rout early which I think is risky. Anyways I was in like second or 3rd to last till I got my cav stacks out and killed PBB and the other guy next to me. I ended up in second when at the beginning I wasn't sure I'd live. Other games I use the same strat and just slaughter the field. Huge cav stacks rock.
As for anc ctons, I like going for animal husbandry first so I can see where my horses are if I have any, then I go for bronze. You could go either order. Then I basically go for code of laws. Code's great because you can get a religion from it, which you don't really need till your cities are larger anyways and you can switch to caste and maybe get a GA or a GS out. Also if I'm teching well I try to get music. depending on the map size, a GA can add 100-200 points to your score if placed right. The smaller the map size the more points it gives you. Also Stonehenge is great if you can get it because it's free culture for new cities till calendar. The oracle can be tight if you get it later on. I like to try to get Code of Laws and the Oracle on the same turn so I can get Bureau as the free tech and then out tech and out produce everyone. Wonders aren't that key to a cton though. You can easily win one with out a single wonder if you simply build 7-8 decently placed cities and have enough workers to work the tiles. You should have at least 1 worker for every city you have maybe 2. Cottages, Cottages, Cottages. These things are da bomb, especially if you're fin. So many people don't use them, even in teamers. in a cton you can easily have anywhere from 400-700 of your points from tech. If you can make it to lib in an anc cton you are doing something right.
Just don't die.
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Post by ironclad on Aug 9, 2006 13:38:43 GMT -5
whats the average cities you guys get in cton... i ususally end up get 12-15 cities in the end once i get to knights and mace i turn tech off ^^
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Post by Bantams on Aug 9, 2006 14:27:17 GMT -5
whats the average cities you guys get in cton... i ususally end up get 12-15 cities in the end once i get to knights and mace i turn tech off ^^ damn not getting enough cities then thats whats up
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Post by decepticon on Aug 10, 2006 16:22:03 GMT -5
12-15 cities seems a bit much. I win approx 80-90% of the ctons i play and i usually have between 8 and 10 cities. i agree that is how you win ctons is by expanding aggresively without killing your science.
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Post by civerdan on Aug 10, 2006 19:57:34 GMT -5
I generally have between 5-8 cities depending on map size. My tactics depend a lot on who are my neighbors, what civs are they and what other civs are in the game, esp, are they indu. Of course my civ, terrain and resources I get is just as big a factor.
For me any game I dont get to Liberalism is a "bad" game. One 125 turn small inland recently I got to Rifles (used Lib tech for Rep. Parts).
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Post by churchill1 on Aug 12, 2006 0:41:05 GMT -5
Did u get cavs too. i got both once ;D. In fact I don't shut up about it.
Oh and i would say my strategy is somewhat similar to urs. Not often I make liberalism a real priority though. May be I should.
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Post by zzZhenon on Aug 15, 2006 0:20:29 GMT -5
i build about 7 cities and try to build lots of wonders. Usually score between 1100 - 1400
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Audrien
Settler
Administrator
Posts: 74
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Post by Audrien on Aug 23, 2006 8:40:39 GMT -5
Okay my Main research strategy for Ancient CTONS is: [/b]. Horses are great for choking. 2.1.) Bronzeworking. Desperately needed for chopping and defense. (One spearman into every city please at the beginning.) 2.2.) If there is no metal around my cap (lets say 8 tiles) i'll go for Archery. (After I got the basic techs i will go for Ironworking or get some Bronze far away.) 3.) The basic techs. (while i am doing this i try to choke my neighbours with 2 chariots at the same time if i got horses nearby) [/ul] ( Stonehenge and The Hanging Gardens are the only wonders worth their hammers for obvious reasons. Any other wonders only for points if you got Marble, Stone or you are Indu Civ. But they are not really needed to win.) [/b] ---> Construction! (With Metal and Construction there is no reason for dieing in a CTON.) [/ul] Since you are able to defend yourselves now there are 3 ways to carry on: [/b] (if your GNP is the best). ---> You may go for the Great Library. Its a pretty good wonder too. 5.2.) Go for Civil Service to make your GNP go crazy. 5.3.) Go for Feudalism if you do not feel save at the moment (Longbows are very good for defending). [/ul] 5.2. and 5.3. may be combined since Feudalism is leading to Civil Service. (This is probably the best way to go imo but it takes about 5-10 turns longer then using the Code of Law path depending on your GNP.) After you got that go for the "upper basics" to get more points. ( Currency ---> Calender ---> Metal Casting ---> Machinery and other left overs.) Those are my research strategies. But you need far more to win the game: [/color][/b][/i] As already said in previous postings build cottages! On every flood! (I have seen to many farms on floods lately!) And on grass land with fresh water access! Furthermore get a library in your cap and at least in every city with 10 research beakers. B.) Food. One food ressource for each city is just enough. Plant your cities wisely. Use "Alt+S" to mark spots way ahead before planting a city so you can think about it again. Good Food production leads to a good: C.) Population. That's the way Ctons are won. Get big cities. An I am talking about really big cities. (Like size 16 or even more.) Get health ressources to avoid sick faces. Build Aequaducts. Whatever: Get your population as high as possible. (Build farms on the spots without cottages.) Btw 7 or 8 cities are enough. If you get more your maintanance cost go up and you are wasting lots of Gold. D.) Land. Lots of land is good for your score. Try to expand you culture as much as possible till 20 turns are left cause any more culture expansion will not count for your end score. (Land points are added to your score after 20 turns.) A Great Artist is a great help here ... E.) Power. Ctons are usually won by early kills and maybe late kills. Try to kill one of your neighbours in the beginning. That way you have more land to settle and you can pick the best spots for your cities. Avoid long wars at the beginning and in the middle part of the game they will hurt your economy alot and therefore your buildup i. e. you wont win. There is actually no need for killing a neighbour imo (unless he is doing much better then you). My army is usually for defence only. [/ul] One more thing: People have asked me what I am building at the beginning. The building-path is: [/i]--->(maybe one more Warrior) ---> Worker ---> Worker ---> ... [/ul] When i planted a new city i build the following improvements always in the same order: [/i] ---> Granary ---> Barracks[/ul] Okay I hope this wasn't too long. Its kinda hard to tell what I am actually doing in a game since every game is different. My strategy gets changed if I get choked, my land sucks, or whatever but this is my way. I did it my way ... - Sir Tobey -
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Post by Bantams on Aug 23, 2006 15:16:20 GMT -5
nice thanks Sir tobey once i fix my damn isp problems i may play better now
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Post by mrsaturn on Aug 23, 2006 18:21:24 GMT -5
Each leader should have different tech paths IMO. I used to try the Civil Service slingshot with Oracle .> Code of Laws every time, but it can be crippling even if you finish it.
One problem I have is, if you go for bronze, husbandry, and priesthood all at the beginning, you get cottages very late. Early pottery is critical if you lack gold or some other nice GNP resources. All those early turns where you just hit <enter> repeatedly? They could be used to grow your cottages.
I always go for bronze working first- chopping and slavery are so useful. After that it really depends on what my neighbor has resource-wise, how close/far they are, and what leader I have.
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Post by notagoodname on Aug 23, 2006 19:05:52 GMT -5
mrsaturn is right early pottery is absolutly nessesary, not just for cottages but for granaries as well.
Tobey i take it you get animal husbandry before bronze working? - strange.
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Post by churchill1 on Aug 23, 2006 20:33:34 GMT -5
I always do if I have an animal res like pig or sheep. But it often doesnt make much difference if u go BW 1st or AH 1st.
Really nice work on this post Tobey.
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Post by tamijo on Aug 24, 2006 6:11:51 GMT -5
if i have one off the "unik carriots" i allways take a chance on AH before BW;
You can often adabt techpath a little to get your unik faster. without changing the general picture too much.
Im not sure it pays off to go for Archer early, if you lack horses & copper, especialy not if you havent got hunting, , often wont save you. Better to get iron, and pray to god it will get you metal in time.
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Post by Polydeukes on Aug 24, 2006 7:00:38 GMT -5
Hmm Cton strategy Here is my strategy for a cton. I always try to die asap. You should leave all your cities unprotected it works well all the time ;D
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Audrien
Settler
Administrator
Posts: 74
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Post by Audrien on Aug 24, 2006 11:51:29 GMT -5
Tobey i take it you get animal husbandry before bronze working? - strange. Yes i go Animal Husbandry right away (if i am able to). If not I will do Bronzeworking first. As Churchill said it doesnt really matter for me what I am researching first because I work my food ressource before i do my first chopps. And it takes a few turns to get a worker anyway. (Lets say 4-6 to grow city to size 2 and to get a warrior and another 7 - 8 for the worker depending on if you are settled on a plain hill. This means until you get your worker out it will take 11 - 14 turns.) Animal Husbandry takes 7 and Bronzeworking 8 turns (if you have to get another tech before like Mining or Agriculture each take 3-4 turns). So since I am working my food ressource first I will get Bronzeworking on time (15 - 18 turns maybe 1 or 2 less) to chopp right after that. (There are a few Leaders that need Mining AND Agriculture because they dont have the right starting technologies. So this strategy needs a change. Japan for example really sucks for that and you would need to reconsider your strategy.) If you would research Bronzeworking first you may be able to slave your first worker, but I personally do not like that idea. I usually slave my 2nd worker and/or my settler. One problem I have is, if you go for bronze, husbandry, and priesthood all at the beginning, you get cottages very late. Early pottery is critical if you lack gold or some other nice GNP resources. All those early turns where you just hit <enter> repeatedly? They could be used to grow your cottages. Early Cottages are great. Getting your GNP up right away is the best way to go. When I was talking about the basics I usually do the Wheel and Pottery. But I almost never get any early religion due to my researching path. But in my opinion religions aren't really needed. Each leader should have different tech paths IMO. I used to try the Civil Service slingshot with Oracle .> Code of Laws every time, but it can be crippling even if you finish it. Very true. It depends on your traits and on your UU. But i usually follow my Main Strategy.
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Post by tommynt on Aug 24, 2006 15:41:12 GMT -5
90% of ctons are just won by best builder
important isnt really tech path or so as it s obvious anyway, but to be able to expand tech and build army same time
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Post by civerdan on Sept 7, 2006 14:17:57 GMT -5
Yes I agree early attack is generally not worth it, unless you can get a very early chariot/axe/spear to someone before they get there metal/horse, then you can choke them to death and expand freely in their direction.
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Post by Bantams on Sept 8, 2006 9:35:03 GMT -5
If you have no bronze or horses nearby would you go for archers before Iron or go straight for Iron and pray
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Post by lordelgis on Sept 8, 2006 15:19:50 GMT -5
the only time I war in a cton is really early with chariots or if I see my neighbor has no war resource. The only other time I consider it is if someone i ahead of me on points. I rarely choke with more than 2-3 units. As Swissy pointed out a large stack in enemy territory is a great way to lose gnp. Tobey you forgot the Great Library. If I get marble I'm going for TGL as long as I can tech well. TGL coupled with national epic gives quick GS and maybe a GA both of which are really useful. Another strat i've seen is great wall then pyramids. This gives GE's to build more wonders with. But as rupman pointed out you dont need wonders to win the best way to win a cton is by rapid expansion,cottaging, and bullying/choking neighbors.
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Post by churchill1 on Sept 8, 2006 20:39:32 GMT -5
the only time I war in a cton is really early with chariots or if I see my neighbor has no war resource. The only other time I consider it is if someone i ahead of me on points. Or if I'm bored, or if I need there space to expand further, or if I just need their space for a culture bomb, or if they pissed me off. Oh yeah and the money boost can be good - especially if u pillage their towns, that can leave u at 100% science for a long time in some cases. How arrogant am I? (rhetorical, don't answer that)
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