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Post by Elledge on May 25, 2006 13:17:29 GMT -5
The question is though is it worth building an extra warrior and wasting worker production turns just to get rid of him? If you just wait for axeman hookup he'll die anyway.
Depends where he's fortified I guess.
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Post by churchill1 on May 25, 2006 15:27:59 GMT -5
i dont think 10 hammers even this early in the game makes a huge difference. the pro tip about religion - that's the only reason i could see for getting religions really. does that make me a pro ? unless u go theology. but it seems that isnt really worthwhile. except that will give u another culture pop ( if u have a new city). cos feudalism has 2 xtra benefits. no 3. u have to go monarchy to get there. and imo hereditary rule is the best government civic. and u get serfdom. and u get rock solid longbows.
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Post by Tony on May 25, 2006 20:04:52 GMT -5
Religions can be useful then empire building, which 1v1's can resort to sometimes. The cheap second city expansion can be nice sometimes when you have resource outside your borders, olisks take forever to build and chops are exenpive and dont give may sheilds until maths.
As for playing 1v1's i dont think there is any great secrate, hook up resource and go kill the other guy.
EDIT: For me fead is not a good tech route to take, but thats just a personal opinion, sure longbows are SUPER strong, but i just dont think its a good route in 120 turns.
Obviously it depends on situation, but generally speaking.
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Post by tommynt on May 26, 2006 2:33:15 GMT -5
dude on mirror map it s not that easy - other guy gonna have same res as u - so in the 10 turn u need to go to him he got 10 more turns to prodcuce and ll usually kill u 2 vs 1 easy - it s much more about strategy and tactic. at least when 2 kinda equal skilled play and there are no early mistakes like worker losses
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Post by gratiaplacenti on May 26, 2006 10:50:03 GMT -5
tommy what are your suggested tech discovery routes depending on situation/civs ?
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Post by churchill1 on May 26, 2006 15:22:05 GMT -5
yeah, this is why i like mirror map. why is it so unpopular? it is unbelievably fair. when other maps can be easily weighed in one or the other player's favour.
u mentioned 5 cities plantable on any map. on mirror i usually find it is 4 max. i hate planting crappy cities. but of course it is a little xtra mfg (and gold), if nothing else. what's ur opinion: just build crappy cities?
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Post by tommynt on May 26, 2006 15:47:30 GMT -5
expand expand expand or kill u wana win so eihter u gotta kill or u gotta outpoint
teh path - sadly there s only 1
animal and iron - pot - math construction - monarchy- then either feud or codes
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Post by churchill1 on May 26, 2006 16:12:26 GMT -5
presume u mean 1.bronze, 2.iron, 3.animal....
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Post by tommynt on May 26, 2006 17:50:35 GMT -5
it dont really matter if u get 1. bronze or animal - once u got worker u usually got both
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Post by Elledge on May 26, 2006 22:21:02 GMT -5
Build loads of (minimally) crappy cities if it's not city elim, but if it's city elim make sure they are safe crappy cities at least.
If they're safe, though, they're almost definitely going to be worth it, unless they're -really- crappy.
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Post by churchill1 on May 28, 2006 9:33:07 GMT -5
yup tommy, so i would say if u got sheep or something then obviously go animal 1st. hm. in terms of civ: it seems aggressive is a must. u wanna compete in those early warrior exchanges and u want a quick barracks for ur early chariots and/or axes.
nappy and inca seem most popular choices. to me tho quecha is a pretty redundant uu cos archery isnt always worth getting anyway. but i dunno bout this. i will get archers in certain situation for sure. but it usually means i am in a losing position anyway. well what is everyone's opinion about this? obviously fast workers will connect ur res quicker so this is a factor as well.
hm i will need a crapometer to work out whether a city is worth founding or not.
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Post by tommynt on May 28, 2006 14:10:12 GMT -5
a city is forth founding if it got some green tiles (espacially woods) and u got some workers to work it
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Post by Bantams on May 28, 2006 17:27:15 GMT -5
i suggest you go scout before animal if you aint got 1 then animal or bronze and perhaps build a worker whilst doing bronze also its good to do 2 warriors then worker then archery then archer then worker but wtf do i know
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Post by churchill1 on May 29, 2006 3:22:58 GMT -5
so we are basically coming to the conclusion that ICS (infinite city something) is well and truly alive in civ 4. shame.
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Post by tommynt on May 29, 2006 5:55:18 GMT -5
no infinity city definatly not - but on duel size as many as u can work - oh well if u dont farce a warmonger as i am, usually u might win with less ciites and some tech and size - the infinite city approach i try usually leads to very bad teching rate
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Post by Tony on May 29, 2006 12:05:58 GMT -5
Oh man i've seen people do some silly things in terms of getting too many cites too quickly. Can have a pretty negative effect if you dont know how to expand, and at what rate.
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Post by Elledge on May 30, 2006 23:34:30 GMT -5
In my experience it's almost impossible to found cities faster than your economy can keep up, unless you have absolutely zero opposition or there is some other factor involved. On island maps my benchmark is 3 cities by 2000 BC (used to be 4 before patch, but sometimes early growth to work resource tiles is more effective than chopping more settlers now) and depending on land 10-15 cities by 0 AD. Pretty much you just need to make sure either your capital or a very early city is a primary commerce city to fund you, and you need to make sure you get cottages down fairly early. I prefer to go the capital route unless I'm in a really weird spot, stacking an academy and Bureaucracy on if I get the chance. Currency helps if you really are going nuts with the settlers, but I can't imagine that you would ever have to worry about growing too large if you have an opponent on the same landmass to defend against.
A small-city cottage approach will never beat an expansion-oriented approach for tech past perhaps a short time in the early game. A specialist economy can be very intimidating in my experience, however, if they can get both Pyramids and Parthenon, which someone else will have to try to beat them to because you are busy chopping settlers and workers instead. The worst part is that since specialists don't show up on GNP you never know if you're behind or ahead, or by how much. If they don't get (especially) Pyramids though then don't even worry about it.
Of course, in city elim, all bets are off. I think city elim kinda f**ks up the game, personally.
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Post by tommynt on May 31, 2006 2:42:39 GMT -5
elledge thread is how to own in 1-1 I dont see too many 1-1 s played on island map neither do most em em last till currency. playnting cities really just depend on your worker/worked land situation - if u worked all land (and that means cottage on every grass tile city can use) - there is no other way as too expand and if u can work it right away (food res 1. for fast grow) it ll help usually even gold in medium run
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Post by Elledge on May 31, 2006 13:00:25 GMT -5
Oh yeah, I forgot this thread was about owning in 1v1 =)
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Post by Atomation on Jun 1, 2006 14:08:27 GMT -5
The best way to go these days, with chopping nerfed, is b-line catapults. Then you get math along the way for faster chopping, and catapults/elephants rape everything together defensively. Just watch the power graph, so you know when they are building up. If you don't have ivory then unfortunately you might need to get metals for spears, if you fear horses. Playing aggressively, unfortunately, is pretty tough to do against a skilled player....the game heavily rewards players that grow large while abusing catapults to defend against any sort of stack.
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