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Post by SirPartyMan on Nov 11, 2006 13:11:36 GMT -5
Dear Friends:
This is the thread to make comments about the upcoming CCC 39.
I apologize for the late posting; however, only a few minimal changes were made, based on posted suggestions.
Best, SPM
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Juni
Worker
Posts: 137
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Post by Juni on Nov 11, 2006 13:43:16 GMT -5
There is a copy/paste error in OCC classical : Russia and Arabia banned does not have much sense in this event ;D
And one question : why is founding forbidden until turn 4 ? With Eiffel's map, you just have to found where you are and get a wonderful land. I don't get the idea with it.
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Post by Speaker on Nov 11, 2006 16:25:56 GMT -5
I don't understand a few things:
1) Why is the Ren event now 5v5? As is, we already spend way more time waiting than playing. We tried 5v5 for a few CCCs and it was unplayable with certain combinations due to lag. I am really looking forward to playing for 4 hours and waiting for 10.
2) Why is Spain banned from the Ren event? We have reached no clear consensus on this issue. Where Russia is and has been banned from all Ren ladder games for many months, Spain decidedly is not. One complaint from one person and we make this rash decision? If anything, it was provent that Spain is not "overpowered" as Gandhi was still chosen over Spain in Longhorn's "blast" report.
(Also, Inland Sea small might be a bit crowded for a 5v5 game?)
3) Why the 4-turn rule for the OCC events? It hardly seems necessary. You have 1 explorer, 2 longbows, and 1 worker to use to explore. This should be more than enough to reveal the land around your potential capital. 4 turns seems like major overkill to me.
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moineau
Warrior
Administrator
Posts: 330
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Post by moineau on Nov 11, 2006 16:35:37 GMT -5
Agree with all Speaker remarks. And why C4F on the ancient TBG? where will be the strategic play of the ressource? Some good changements like not allowed same leader, 2 rounds on the CTON or un new event
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Post by longhorn on Nov 11, 2006 16:40:37 GMT -5
What an excellent compromise of suggestions that were given for the ren event. You managed to keep it fair and balanced, allowed one 'bigger' team event as many requested, and kept it short and sweet - under 100 turns (which all but me liked). The mjority of Ren teamers are played 5v5, so this makes a lot of sense.
Excellent!
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Post by eiffel on Nov 11, 2006 18:00:39 GMT -5
Wha, saturday events require a lot of players... 11 to 14 depending how long you last in events. And from what i remember 5v5 renaissance was awful in CCC... if there are a lot of clans, get ready for a 15+ hours event due to rounds/byes and no doubt, lot of lag... and a lot of waiting between 2 games for some clans.
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Post by notagoodname on Nov 11, 2006 18:16:28 GMT -5
Why are there 2 OCC events that are the same?
Event 8 and event 12
Shouldn't one of them be a 1v1v1v1v1... OCC and the other a 2v2 instead of both being a 2v2 OCC.
You really should have a 1v1v1v1v1v1 OCC... as that is the traditional way of playing. 2v2 OCC is an all out military situation.
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Post by holocanthe on Nov 11, 2006 20:00:01 GMT -5
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Post by Gogf on Nov 11, 2006 20:31:30 GMT -5
Why the changes to the renaissance game? While I respect Longhorn's opinion, looking back at his thread, there is only one post that can be construed as agreeing with him about Spain. Two people say that a civ is overpowered, at least ten disagree, and we ban it in the next CCC ? Furthermore, 5v5 is not a great idea, especially on a day when clans are already pressed for players. I played in the event last time it was 5v5, and lag made the games take forever. And that was before Warlords. I also don't see a point in the four-turn settling rule. Eiffel's map generally gives equitable starts, but losing one turn to move to a better start isn't awful. Wasting four turns doing nothing other than shuffling the spacing seems pointless to me.
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Post by tommynt on Nov 11, 2006 21:52:39 GMT -5
the plant turn 4 idea ll cause only problems imo, no1 is used to it and I see some guys just planting, also when using eiffels map this idea isnt really needed as in 95% of games planting right away ll be best
I think that the 5-5 on small is a decent compromise between a playable not lagoverloaded game and a 5-5 many people wanted. Spain banned or not whatever, same for all. Not like there arent enough other civs to take and at least half of people stating spain isnt op gonna take spain in next game and get massconqu.
Still too many turns in like all events, in 95% of games the team leading turn 80 ll lead in turn 90 aswell, but these last 10 turns are the anyoing 1 turn = 5 minute turns
Overall a decent scedule with maybe too many players needed on saturday. But then like every clan ll have to drop 1 event and 1 out of 12 should not be deciding. But makin the 2-2 on Saturday a cton style event might be a decent idea favoured by lot people.
I sadly still see no clear rule about lagers and mentaly slowed flamers. Hopefully tds ll at least enforce ladder rules this time
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Post by MookieNJ on Nov 11, 2006 22:43:57 GMT -5
CCC lineup looks mostly good, but a few additional comments/suggestions: Event 4 -- I love the map change to Ring, I think it will be interesting to see a ground game in addition to the naval drops that have been so prevalent the last few CCCs. However, I am really not a fan of the no dupliate leaders in the game rule, especially picking by current standings. First, by denying one team certain powerhouse leaders they are at an extreme disadvantage before the game even begins, and second by using the current standings, only two or three events will be completed -- so by this logic the best clan at 1v1 and possibly cton or future if they are completed, gets first pick at industrial civs. Kind of silly to do a rule like this so early in the CCC. Event 6 -- I think the map change to C4F is good as it takes away a lot of the randomness of who wins the resource lottery in their capitals. With 1 city elimination on, the resource lottery becomes that much more important, so by slightly changing the map, the game can be more about strategy and less about Mali, Aztecs, and who gets Bronze and Horses. Event 7 -- 10 players on the Small map which was designed for 5 ... might be a little crowded? Banning Spain along with Russia, I think, is silly, especially if the game is extended to 10 players. 3v3 I still don't agree, but understand. I love playing this event 5v5, but worry about the lag -- CCC already includes a lot of sitting around and waiting, trying to mix in 10 players last time around resulted in a lot of lag you simply cannot scrap away like we can do with a regular ladder game. Event 8 -- Wow, extend the Renaissance event to 5v5 and add another event to Saturday? Seems a bit much. This is an Ancient start and civs are banned? Event 10 -- I still don't like the one leader per game rule at all here, but at least it's after 8 events are completed instead of 2 or 3 like in the Industrial event.
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Post by Canucksoldier on Nov 11, 2006 22:44:31 GMT -5
Well I don't think the 0CC plant rule can be bad, it just means the game is 4 turns longer and if you don't want to move you don't have to, but people that want to can, it's a risk between a potentially better spot and possibly being closer to a nieghbour, but I don't see how giving players a option can be bad.
As to the 5v5 Ren if it turns out generally too laggy then we can change it for next CCC.
SPM, did we not want to do a ironman prelim on friday? that way we can limit the saturday final to a 8 player game?
CS
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Post by Speaker on Nov 11, 2006 22:52:01 GMT -5
I assumed 5v5 Ren on small was a typo. Please tell me it is... Those settings have no relevance to the era whatsoever.
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Post by MMV on Nov 12, 2006 8:24:55 GMT -5
as posted in the other "suggestions" thread, the "no settle for 4 moves won't work
one person starts with scout/settler - the other starts with warrior/settler
warrior/settler moves (blindly) 4 moves closer to scout/settler - they both plant - end of game for scout/settler.
again, the C4F OCC Mod map took care of this situation so there should be no need for "tweaking."
Please change this rule
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Post by tommynt on Nov 12, 2006 12:38:41 GMT -5
unbelieveable how some dudes think that every setting they dont play everyday is a unplayable setting.
U ever heard of adopting?
mehääää no spain, how can u play without spain .......
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Post by Bantams on Nov 12, 2006 12:53:18 GMT -5
occ plant turn 4 = RUBBISH
Ren ban spain = RUBBISH
please cancel these 2 rubbish Ideas the rest is fine
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Post by MookieNJ on Nov 12, 2006 13:07:04 GMT -5
unbelieveable how some dudes think that every setting they dont play everyday is a unplayable setting. U ever heard of adopting? mehääää no spain, how can u play without spain ....... I'm not sure who you are referring to here, but since I said it was silly to ban Spain it's pretty safe to assume this at least partially aimed in my direction. And to that I can only say HUH??? This is a thread asking for suggestions. I made one, saying that I don't think it's necessary to ban Spain in a Renaissance game. Will I adapt to not having Spain? Sure. However, if this rant also includes playing 5v5 on a Small map size (which I pray is a typo) ... that's not even fun and not even worth adapting.
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Post by SirPartyMan on Nov 12, 2006 13:51:49 GMT -5
OK I made a few changes based on these suggestions: a) I added a Friday night IRONMAN Prelim so only 8 players are in Ironman on Saturday. b) I changed Rennaissance to 4v4 (compromising between 3v3 and 5v5) and regular size map. c) I eliminated the ban of Spain in Renaissance game and eliminated any bans in Saturday's OCC d) I changed the Saturday OCC to 1v1v1v1 - now clans need two players less on Saturday. Please note those events are spread out over many hours, so some players can be in more than event. e) I changed the no duplicate leaders rule in Grudge Event (was event 4, now event 5) As to the planting rule in OCC - I was responding to several posts in suggestions forum. I have put up a poll on this topic - please vote. civ4players.proboards44.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=ccc&thread=1163357662Best, SPM
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Post by SirPartyMan on Nov 12, 2006 14:03:56 GMT -5
I wanted to comment on two of Tommy's points.
a) rule about laggers - I don't know what we can do here - it's an international match and sometimes good people lag. People should be considerate of each other. If a substitute can be arranged, that's great - otherwise it would seem we need to grin and bear it. I'm open to suggestions here.
b) Rule about good sportsmanship - that rule is always in place. If anyone is subjected to abusive attacks, please cut and paste statements made and forward to TD in charge and/or Ladder Admins for action. The CCC is the event where we should have our best manners (like Thanksgiving when the relatives come over) - please act accordingly. Good Sportsmanship is a valued trait at C4P.
Sincerely, SPM
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Post by MookieNJ on Nov 12, 2006 14:46:08 GMT -5
OK I made a few changes based on these suggestions: a) I added a Friday night IRONMAN Prelim so only 8 players are in Ironman on Saturday. b) I changed Rennaissance to 4v4 (compromising between 3v3 and 5v5) and regular size map. c) I eliminated the ban of Spain in Renaissance game and eliminated any bans in Saturday's OCC d) I changed the Saturday OCC to 1v1v1v1 - now clans need two players less on Saturday. Please note those events are spread out over many hours, so some players can be in more than event. e) I changed the no duplicate leaders rule in Grudge Event (was event 4, now event 5) As to the planting rule in OCC - I was responding to several posts in suggestions forum. I have put up a poll on this topic - please vote. civ4players.proboards44.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=ccc&thread=1163357662Best, SPM Hey SPM, Thanks for the changes. Two more comments: If the Ren event is going to be 4v4 on Standard map, this set up works better on High Sealevel than Medium Sealevel in my experience. We usually play the Standard/Medium setting with 5v5, so for 4v4 it results with a bit too much land for 8 players. Changing the sea level to High usually helps out a lot here. Also, for the Ironman Preliminary round -- a Pangaea cton to play into the Ironman seems to be quite different game types. I've never really enjoyed ctons on Pangaea -- someone always gets stuck in the middle with opponents all around them. I think any Preliminary play in round should use the same settings as the actual event, only changing map size as needed.
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