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Post by venceslas on Apr 21, 2006 17:30:31 GMT -5
"Because of the strong intra clan rivalries, the only admin that could fairly arbitrate a dispute would be an admin with no affiliation to any clan."
It seems to me that is exacly the rules for the CCC.
Anyway, I trust the admin and the TD.
From time to time, I have a slighly different opinion, but I'm quite convinced that they make their best. So I accept their judgement.
chris.
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Post by Gogf on Apr 21, 2006 20:43:42 GMT -5
I don't completely agree. An admin playing in a game/tournament can remove himself from the decision making process if there is a conflict of interest where his team is involved. There seem to be enough admins, that they can probably refer a problem to another person to bring a resolution to order. /weak Because of the strong intra clan rivalries, the only admin that could fairly arbitrate a dispute would be an admin with no affiliation to any clan. That's not really true. As far as I know, all the admins are extremely fair people who can arbitrate decisions with as little bias as possible. Sure, it's a bit unfair, but since most of the larger clans are represented in the admins, this sort of cancels itself out. It's also completely unfair to the admins to not allow them to be part of a clan.
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Post by SirPartyMan on Apr 21, 2006 22:45:08 GMT -5
For those who aren't familiar with the rules. If there is any dispute during the CCC, first the TD responsible for that event makes a ruling.
If either side objects, the appeal then goes to a committee of at least 3 people (pulled from Admin team and TD team) who are impartial (in other words from clans not directly involved in the dispute). So if let's say KC and Illuminati had a dispute, admins and/or TDs from other clans (or no clan at all) would decide as a committee with majority ruling.
That's fair and avoids any accusations of bias.
Best, SPM
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Post by swissy on Apr 22, 2006 3:47:52 GMT -5
Could we please have more than two non-team events? As it is now there is only one event I can play and enjoy playing (Ironman). I don't like playing teamers, they are laggy and seem to bring out the worse in some players. It would be nice to have an Ultimate Cton event as we have done in C3P CCCs.
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Post by Sidhe on Apr 22, 2006 12:31:10 GMT -5
Ironman: Standard hub map was too big IMO for the players even with 11! It seemed land access was only possible by the spokes of the hub and so you either got Mexican stand offs or whole sale attacks. But even these were pointless as it took to long by land to get to someone. I'd suggest a different map, with more likelihood of war, boating is very unlikely to succeed early on particularly with no elimination conditions, and it wastes resources over a land attack, no offense when I got subbed I was bored out of my skull, some people like build fests, I don't think Ironman should be a build fest, yeah later on might be some war but till the middle ages were talking dead central, that's a bit dull for my liking. I'd be interested to know if any other maps might liven it up a bit, or if anyone from the game felt the same or I'm just whining as usual lol Oh and don't put 11 people in one game, if connections are OK it's fine but with Ironman, it lagged an awful lot, and scrap was bandied about several times, and there were some annoying drops too. I think we should have 2 semis as before, with low numbers such as 11 being split to 6 and 5 and then top 3 going through to the final maybe. Shame we didn't get more clans in there. I still don't see why rank should dictate pick or why civs are kept to one of each, it's just nonsensical under CIV, under C3c there was reason to have it: now? It's just blatant discrimination and serves no purpose, but hey I've said that before, my fault I hadn't played in 6 weeks, fair enough, but man why should the top ten player get an advantage, lets start even, fin civs are an advantage they are slightly unbalanced, let's get some fair play at the start of the game, cause all I'm seeing is the usual suspects picking first and it's really biased. That's from playing 2 Ironmans by the way. OK if it's not the case I withdraw it, the rule sucks big time, though and anyone who says well get number 1 then is missing the point before you say it What is the big hardship with having 2 civs the same who's hurt? Can we not distinguish between Elizabeth 1 and Elizabeth 2?
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Post by lporiginalg on Apr 22, 2006 15:42:23 GMT -5
I agree wholehartedly about the picking Sidhe. I've played many ladder semi-ctons and this is the only one where duplicate leaders aren't allowed. I dislike random civ selection because it can give an unfair advantage (imo) but decidingpicks by ranks doesn't make for a fair game, wtf is that? I can't make excuses about my civ this ironman since I got first pick but even if I was promised first pick I would still vote for duplicate leaders because the last thing I want is the person I beat saying 'well u had my civ...' I think there are alot of maps that could be better than hub for ironman. I also think making the map small size would make it a much more enjoyable event for all involved. If you've never tried hub map on small(or smaller) with 10+ people please do before you respond to this. I think it would be cool to rename the hub game 'tank race' and set it to small map, and create a new Ironman event played on a standard pangea, balanced or even great plains. These maps make for lots of action and probably won't lag as much as the standard hub. 'Tank Race' would be open to as many clans as are in the ccc wheras the pangea ironman would be played by 8 qualifers. That's my suggestions. (great plains needs more respecktpuh yo) lp ps ( I can see yur point levi but I've never been aware of any unfair decisions made by tds....when it's time to make a decision they're never around anyway but seriously as reverant as the ccc is it's still a game and these guys aren't getting paid so how you really gonna ask them to give up a huge chunk of their weekend without playin too)
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Post by tommynt on Apr 22, 2006 17:21:01 GMT -5
French guys are playing now since 5,5 hours in ren, and still some turns left ...
we really need a rule to stop that nuts - i d say 3,5 hours enough - after that call on points - if there s 1 team dropping and lagging much it gets disqualified - u need though td for that but we got em imo
it s just very unfair for other team what they do ... all def play very few ciites ( oh well i say that before playing next round vs em) and lagging and dropping maybe some off these points not right - i dont wana be offensive but 6 hours is just to much imo
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Post by rokkitlauncher on Apr 22, 2006 18:10:51 GMT -5
The ironman this time took 1.5 hrs to launch. This is just way too long. We had 11 players, and i hope that in the future more clans will arise to the challenge of the CCC and therefore, the ironman will take even longer to launch. I therefore believe that there should be 2 games of ironman, the top 3 from each going through to play an overall ironman. If we were to do this, i understand that the ironman would take even longer, so maybe just go up to 150 turns like most of the ctons that are played on the ladder anyway. We need one of these types of events anyway as 1 cton isnt enough, so maybe we keep the lag-fest, connection problems (which also kick in during substitutions) and have another cton event. Plus then we have 10 events which is a much more even number than 9 anyway
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Post by venceslas on Apr 23, 2006 1:24:20 GMT -5
Well, LKT was not in this match MDR-FUN whose tommynt speak. However, we were playing in the same time again Illuminati(our executioner ) . From what I know gameplay was good and none reload has occured(tell me if I'm wrong Illuminati please). MDR-FUN has just lasted about 40 minuts more. So, maybe the only fair conclusion to your post tommy, is made a rennaissance in 50 turns. Not sure a good idea. Anyway it's a bad solution to call the point when game last more 3.5 hours. All strategies will be changed with such a rule. I will prefer change the timer to "fast". But I agree it's far from a perfect solution. chris.
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Post by venceslas on Apr 23, 2006 5:09:30 GMT -5
Ok I had the feeling from FUN clan about the MUD-FUN match. It seems(with the suggestions given by tommy in the upper post) that MUD would have had to be disqualified(humm my english grammar is too bad, what is the correct sentence?) due to too many deconexions from tommynt. "Tommynt nous a fait moulte déco et on a dû l'attendre une bonne vingtaine de minute ...... faire des reloads" Maybe MUD will have a different story, I don't know. Better to heard the both side before to express an opinion ;D Sentences upper was a little aggressive(sorry). But it was a good way to reverse the casting in order to make more understandable to you what we are feeling sometime when we are reading your words. Well it's just a game, I think we should be more patient. Sometime game is long, sometime game is fast. In the 4v4, LKT has made 50 turns in 4.5 hours again A. That's the CCC. With time, things will improve I hope. We just need to find fair solution. Team A made their best, but there have no sub, and one player from A lagged too much(never seen something like that). They will have probably won against us(although sometime we have won game with worse situation), but due to that problem they conceded. I have no solution, but it will be easier to be gentlemen between us. I think the best way is to be fair play and concede when one team has the feeling that all problems provide from them. It will not resolve all problems, but it's better than nothing. Congrats for you victory on the rennaissance event MUD I have the feeling that MUD will struggle hard to keep its title. chris.
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Post by Sidhe on Apr 23, 2006 6:03:07 GMT -5
Oh one question, since the Ironman isn't a cases ran event we all report right, I'm assuming the first guy(not the subs) do all the reporting for the event, yes? Is this the case? Last time I played I was the only player(no subs) So I just reported to all still in game. To all still waiting reports bear with me.
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Juni
Worker
Posts: 137
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Post by Juni on Apr 23, 2006 8:22:25 GMT -5
Actually the indus start event has just started, with only 5 teams in it. 3 teams are sure to get 2 points while MUD and LKT must fight in quarter final. It is strongly unfair for them. In order to avoid this, maybe the rule of 8 clans only on sunday events should be changed.
We could allow every clan to register, but when event starts, only the 8 highest ranked clans are kept, others are kicked. Such a rule used in this CCC could have allow FUN, KC or CIP to play this event and have a complete quarter finals set.
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Post by charliebrownparker on Apr 23, 2006 8:33:12 GMT -5
French guys are playing now since 5,5 hours in ren, and still some turns left .. I know this game has been long but not due to lag. Game finished 3 turns before the end with lot a of fights and tactical moves. As you know tommynt ren games are always long. I'm really confused for time you spend waiting for us but i can assure you it wasn't due to lag. Problem was exactly the same on future start. This event was 11 hours long. That's CCC. Long but fun. Good luck for sunday event.
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Post by zzZhenon on Apr 23, 2006 9:52:41 GMT -5
an ancient OCC teamer would be fun -- and it would give us another ancient game for Sunday like Tommy was tallking about.
Personally I play ancient the most, so it's my favorite
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Post by eiffel on Apr 23, 2006 12:26:08 GMT -5
Please, if you intend to make another Industrial event in the next CCC, please review the map settings... playing it with small pangea fast is just crazy
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Post by tommynt on Apr 23, 2006 12:45:52 GMT -5
guys I really dont wana attack some1 specifically - vbut 6 hours are too long imo - oh well ren can be played in fast anyway to avoid that. I like long intense games - but even a long inteanse game should last not more then 4 hours - oh well i m not sure what to do to avoid 6 hour game - what can mean 6 hour waiting for another team - the 3,5 h was just some idea - but something d be nice.
vencelsas are u slowed? I had twice host drop bug what just happens but didnt drop apart from that even once in whole ren event - so pls dont attack randomly when having players in clan dropping and lagging more as á avarage player.
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Post by venceslas on Apr 23, 2006 13:29:09 GMT -5
Well, like explained I have just quoted FUN. Better heard both side. I was not in this game, So it seems fairer to me to repeat theirs words here. Most of them doesn't speak english. "when having players in clan dropping and lagging more as á avarage player." I'm quite aware of the connexion of my teammate, thy . Only people which has no played against us can say such a thing. At last CCC I have struggled hard to explain the truth. But when someone write a liar, always people keep the bad thing in memory. Anyway, attacked me because I have transmitted the words from FUN(the other side) is not very nice. 6 hours waiting is a pain, and for some people is unacceptable depending your time, I agree. chris.
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Post by Avogadro on Apr 23, 2006 15:42:16 GMT -5
I smell some Quick civ in the next CCC. ::Sniff:: ::Sniff::
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Post by MookieNJ on Apr 23, 2006 22:41:25 GMT -5
I feel that the start times for Sunday's were way too close together. Friday's events started at 3:00pm EST, 7:00pm EST, and 1:00am EST -- 4 and 6 hours apart each. Saturday's events started at 8:00am EST, 10:00am EST, and 1:00pm EST -- 2 and 3 hours apart each. Then on Sunday the events were all packed together -- 9:00am EST, 10:00am EST, and 11:00am EST. From the looks of things, a lot of clans had trouble finding enough people available for such a small window of time -- 1 hour apart each.
If the start times were spread out a little more on Sunday, players eliminated from earlier games may have been able to participate in the later games. Or, if a player were simply unavailable for the 2 hour window from 9:00am to 11:00am EST, he or she missed an entire day of CCC, whereas on the other days the events were spread out a lot more.
If this is a problem with not wanting Sunday's events to spill over into Monday, perhaps one of Sunday's events should be moved to Saturday.
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Post by willburn on Apr 24, 2006 3:30:15 GMT -5
I agree with mookienj. A few clans didnt make it for the events for sunday, and that was a bit sad. (We got some free points there)
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