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Post by SirPartyMan on Apr 13, 2006 9:21:45 GMT -5
This is the place to note your comments and suggestions.
The CCC Advisory Board will be put into place for the next CIV4 CCC.
Notables changes this time:
a) two fewer ancient starts, replaced by Classical and Industrial
b) generally fewer turns to speed up game
c) new rule limiting Ironman substitututions
d) different maps and map options to improve competitiveness
Thanks, SPM
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Post by islandia on Apr 14, 2006 11:24:40 GMT -5
Question about:
Event #1 -- Friday, April 21st at 3:00 pm EDT The Classic Singles Clan Tourney
Players: 1v1 Limit: 110 turns Timer: fast Map: Mirror duel , pangaea landmass, low sealevel reflection type Civ Choice: Yes Elim: 1-city ON Era: Ancient No City Razing: Checked Substitutions: no No Barbs: Checked
There is no "Pangaea" option for mirror. The options are small lakes, wide continents, snaky continents, archipelago, tiny islands, or varied.
I realize that some people were frustrated with losing this event last ccc because they had to play with a water strategy, but making it land only seems to cater only to a subset of players. If you want to prove yourself to be the best 1 v 1 player you should be able to win under any settings which is what the varied option allowed. Now it has become a horse cheesefest which may or may not be what was intended I suppose.
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Post by eiffel on Apr 14, 2006 12:35:43 GMT -5
What about timer in the new patch. I found it to be slower like pre-1.52 patch. Someone noticed change with timer too ? If it's really so, medium would be fast and fast would be blazing ?
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Juni
Worker
Posts: 137
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Post by Juni on Apr 14, 2006 13:12:02 GMT -5
Just a word about event #9 : I don't think that Shuffle map is a good idea. In ancient and classical start, if you get an Archipel map, the team with the biggest islands win. The worst is probably a future start on Pangea, Balanced or TB top v. bottom.
I don't see any interest in that. IMO, the previous Inland Sea was better.
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Post by matth on Apr 14, 2006 13:28:15 GMT -5
Question about: Event #1 -- Friday, April 21st at 3:00 pm EDT The Classic Singles Clan Tourney There is no "Pangaea" option for mirror. The options are small lakes, wide continents, snaky continents, archipelago, tiny islands, or varied. I realize that some people were frustrated with losing this event last ccc because they had to play with a water strategy, but making it land only seems to cater only to a subset of players. If you want to prove yourself to be the best 1 v 1 player you should be able to win under any settings which is what the varied option allowed. Now it has become a horse cheesefest which may or may not be what was intended I suppose. I am against the "varied landmass type" for this reason : -First, the host can directly choose the islands map or the wide continents and the 2nd player will not see that because this option is hidden to the non-host players. -Second, in the CCC 20 i was on a big continents and we were separated by 2 tiles of ocean. You cant travel trough 2 tiles of ocean in ancient (Cultural borders stop after 1 tiles of ocean, it will never add the second tiles into your borders even with a city with 100k of culture). A game without any battle, even on water is not a Civ but a SimCity. -Third, in last CCC we were on a map without iron or copper. Nowhere !! You choose Aztecs Islandia wich was a very good choice by the way. But the victory was for you at the second you choose Aztecs and we had a non ressource map. The better player should not automatcly be the one with the good civ. In archipelago and tiny Islands the map is often without any ressource so all the 1v1 players will paly Aztecs and Mali... That's not very interesting... -To finish a game with 2 tiles of land and only water is not very interesting too. In my opinion the small lakes map is the fairest map, where all civ and all players gets the same chance.
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Post by venceslas on Apr 17, 2006 0:16:45 GMT -5
I think SPM wanted a pangea, and small lake is the nearest map.
chris.
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Post by SirPartyMan on Apr 17, 2006 8:45:25 GMT -5
Yes, I have changed it to small lakes. I will also stick with Inland Sea instead of Shuffle, until we have more experience with it.
I am not sure about the timer. For now, I will leave it the same.
I am sensitive to the criticism to avoid last minute changes, on the other hand, the new patch might force us to do something, but for the time being I am trying to keep things as constant as possible.
SPM
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Post by tommynt on Apr 17, 2006 9:46:06 GMT -5
small lakes option is only way to go for 1-1
I m no fan of these few turns - once a game reach the 100 turn limit it gets usually very interesting. Most games end before that anyway
if there d be no more 1. round byes ccc should go off much smother as with fewer turns but waiting of 3 hours for games.
Oh well i cant play it anyway
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Juni
Worker
Posts: 137
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Post by Juni on Apr 17, 2006 16:07:41 GMT -5
I will also stick with Inland Sea instead of Shuffle, until we have more experience with it. Thanks SPM, this event will be much more intresting this way
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Post by friedrichpsitalon on Apr 19, 2006 3:01:05 GMT -5
The whole point of Event 9 is that it is RANDOM. Shuffle is the random map chooser; there's nothing to experience. It may give you one map, and it may give you another.
I find it very disappointing that we're going to de-randomize an event whose sole and only purpose is to reward players who adapt to a randomly determined environment.
If you get Ancient-Archipelago or Future-TB-Top/Bottom, that's part of the game - you adapt to what you've been given. Event 9 is the event that doesn't allow canned strategies before you walk in the door. With no disrespect intended, I know the French ladder has been making a lot of scenarios to insure this-or-that will always be on the map... Event 9 is about precisely the opposite; no controlled factors at all.
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Post by tommynt on Apr 19, 2006 3:19:16 GMT -5
FriedP is a revolutionist - NO CONTROL - NEW WAYS WE NEED
i like dat and kinda agree - all maps are somehwat playable - even as some are maybe no fun or unfair
I dont like that there s no more ancient in final events just because 1 player - who asks in every game for nonancient - stated ancient was dumb and overrepresetated - most game played are just anc - even as ren got popular
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Post by venceslas on Apr 19, 2006 5:44:19 GMT -5
I like playing CCC because it's exciting. I do not think playing an ancien archip is exciting. In my view it's bored.
I quite agree that an event where adaptability skillness is necessary is a good thing, but I'm not sure that a shuffle map is the best way especially if you get a larger island than the other team.
chris.
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Post by markweston on Apr 20, 2006 13:18:55 GMT -5
There are 7 eras in the game, and (is it 5?) map types that Shuffle chooses between. So we argue that we can't play shuffle because of the 1 in 35 chance that the game will be an Ancient/Archipelago?
Anyway, I don't see anything wrong with playing an ancient-era game when the teams can't meet. it's unusual, but unusualness is the point of this event. It is still however a test of CIV-playing skill. Live a little; embrace the random-ness!
If you can't manage that, just don't enter the Random event.
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Post by eiffel on Apr 20, 2006 15:12:59 GMT -5
If teams can't meet, only external parameters, that you can't control, will give one team the victory... size and quality of the land and random civ the team has. Where is the fun ?
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Post by tommynt on Apr 20, 2006 15:34:15 GMT -5
civ4 isnt designed to be fun but to get take2 money ...
it s not allways fair ..
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Post by venceslas on Apr 21, 2006 1:19:58 GMT -5
"If you can't manage that, just don't enter the Random event." We will be in (if we are qualified) It was just my feeling. I have no existential problem with shuffle map chris.
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Post by Levi on Apr 21, 2006 12:56:49 GMT -5
Admins and Tournament Directors should not be playing in the CCC because it poses a conflict of interest. Admins should also not be members of clans because, if they should be called upon to arbitrate a dispute between clans, they may not be able to arbitrate fairly due to the inherent conflict of interest.
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Post by weaksauce on Apr 21, 2006 13:11:20 GMT -5
Admins and Tournament Directors should not be playing in the CCC because it poses a conflict of interest. Admins should also not be members of clans because, if they should be called upon to arbitrate a dispute between clans, they may not be able to arbitrate fairly due to the inherent conflict of interest. I don't completely agree. An admin playing in a game/tournament can remove himself from the decision making process if there is a conflict of interest where his team is involved. There seem to be enough admins, that they can probably refer a problem to another person to bring a resolution to order. /weak
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Post by markweston on Apr 21, 2006 13:29:08 GMT -5
If teams can't meet, only external parameters, that you can't control, will give one team the victory... size and quality of the land and random civ the team has. Where is the fun ? What, you don't think it's possible for one team to simply play better than the other? Why do you bother then?
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Post by Levi on Apr 21, 2006 13:45:45 GMT -5
I don't completely agree. An admin playing in a game/tournament can remove himself from the decision making process if there is a conflict of interest where his team is involved. There seem to be enough admins, that they can probably refer a problem to another person to bring a resolution to order. /weak Because of the strong intra clan rivalries, the only admin that could fairly arbitrate a dispute would be an admin with no affiliation to any clan.
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