Post by longhorn on Nov 7, 2006 11:50:56 GMT -5
Calling on ALL ladder players to keep these games balanced and (if you are banning Russia in your games) to BAN SPAIN as well.
Reasons why:
With the hijacking of REN to inland under 100 turns- they have morphed this game into early rushes and early rushes only. Before they ruined these teamers, there was at least a balance or repercussion to these all production early rushers, called teching. Now the under 100 turn limits they imposed makes teching irrevelant (past mil trad and perhaps chem/astro).
SPAIN is the best civ for this and completely UNBALANCES the game for the following:
1) Conquistadors can be built IMMEDIATELY, not an extra tech required. The ONLY unit that can possibly counter this UU is elephants, which you have a 50% chance at best being able to find in time, if you can even find them on your side of the (small) map they have forced you to play on. Do you really think its fair to risk your chance to survive a rush on whether or not the random map you are playing on has elephants? Heck, even Russia's dominant UU requires the team to tech 3 full techs before they appear.
2) 50% off workers. See number one above, now they can chop their overpowering UU army (roughly) 2 times faster then you can chop your defensive elephants IF you were lucky enough to get any elephants on your teams side of the map.
3) Overpowering seige units that can start heroic. Again see number one above. Now these unstoppable UU's that can be built from turn 1 without having to tech 1 single turn, that can be chopped 2X's faster because of half price workers, can be supported by 3 upgraded seige weapons, again after just building a citadel. And it gets even better, after solely creating one loaded up seige weapon, you can now build heroic epic. So now, after heroic, they can build 1+ conquistador to every 1 elephant that you might be lucky to have, and chop 2 to your 1 units.
So what we have here is basically a civ that is playing on blazing while you are stuck playing on slow (aka my computer). The imbalance here is absolutely ludicrous. And there a better than 50% chance you can't even counter the attack that they are outproducing you on a more than 1 to 1 basis in the first place. And all this is happening starting on TURN 1.
Ok, i have heard these lame arguments:
1- Well both sides can have a Spain:
Answer: Well both sides could have a Russia, but you have no problem banning that civ. What was the reason for that??? Oh yeah, because Cossacks are ridiculously imbalanced. WOW- that sounds familiar. And cossacks require 3 techs before they can be built.
Also, Spain is not guaranteed to be on the same side as the other teams Spain. And one side having Spain on front versus the other team having it in back, is a very real possibility. Do you want to face a Spain rush before you can even tech to gunpowder?
2- We can ban the citadel:
Answer: I believe it was Nero who came up with the cossack compromise. Any player playing Russia may not be gifted Knights, he must make his own cossacks. The reponse to that was well how can you enforce that rule. My answer is as easily as you can enforce banning the citadel. You are either going to abide by the rules, including agreements, or you aren't. Besides, banning the citadel, only prevents the ungodly powerful seige units and the early heroic epic. It does not prevent the dominatingly unbalanced UU, or thye fast builtr workers.
Anyway, you should STRONGLY consider banning Spain now and ABSOLUTELY before the next CCC. OR- you should lift the ban on Russia, that agreeingly has a dominating UU, but that takes 3 full techs to get to.
BAN SPAIN
thank you!
Reasons why:
With the hijacking of REN to inland under 100 turns- they have morphed this game into early rushes and early rushes only. Before they ruined these teamers, there was at least a balance or repercussion to these all production early rushers, called teching. Now the under 100 turn limits they imposed makes teching irrevelant (past mil trad and perhaps chem/astro).
SPAIN is the best civ for this and completely UNBALANCES the game for the following:
1) Conquistadors can be built IMMEDIATELY, not an extra tech required. The ONLY unit that can possibly counter this UU is elephants, which you have a 50% chance at best being able to find in time, if you can even find them on your side of the (small) map they have forced you to play on. Do you really think its fair to risk your chance to survive a rush on whether or not the random map you are playing on has elephants? Heck, even Russia's dominant UU requires the team to tech 3 full techs before they appear.
2) 50% off workers. See number one above, now they can chop their overpowering UU army (roughly) 2 times faster then you can chop your defensive elephants IF you were lucky enough to get any elephants on your teams side of the map.
3) Overpowering seige units that can start heroic. Again see number one above. Now these unstoppable UU's that can be built from turn 1 without having to tech 1 single turn, that can be chopped 2X's faster because of half price workers, can be supported by 3 upgraded seige weapons, again after just building a citadel. And it gets even better, after solely creating one loaded up seige weapon, you can now build heroic epic. So now, after heroic, they can build 1+ conquistador to every 1 elephant that you might be lucky to have, and chop 2 to your 1 units.
So what we have here is basically a civ that is playing on blazing while you are stuck playing on slow (aka my computer). The imbalance here is absolutely ludicrous. And there a better than 50% chance you can't even counter the attack that they are outproducing you on a more than 1 to 1 basis in the first place. And all this is happening starting on TURN 1.
Ok, i have heard these lame arguments:
1- Well both sides can have a Spain:
Answer: Well both sides could have a Russia, but you have no problem banning that civ. What was the reason for that??? Oh yeah, because Cossacks are ridiculously imbalanced. WOW- that sounds familiar. And cossacks require 3 techs before they can be built.
Also, Spain is not guaranteed to be on the same side as the other teams Spain. And one side having Spain on front versus the other team having it in back, is a very real possibility. Do you want to face a Spain rush before you can even tech to gunpowder?
2- We can ban the citadel:
Answer: I believe it was Nero who came up with the cossack compromise. Any player playing Russia may not be gifted Knights, he must make his own cossacks. The reponse to that was well how can you enforce that rule. My answer is as easily as you can enforce banning the citadel. You are either going to abide by the rules, including agreements, or you aren't. Besides, banning the citadel, only prevents the ungodly powerful seige units and the early heroic epic. It does not prevent the dominatingly unbalanced UU, or thye fast builtr workers.
Anyway, you should STRONGLY consider banning Spain now and ABSOLUTELY before the next CCC. OR- you should lift the ban on Russia, that agreeingly has a dominating UU, but that takes 3 full techs to get to.
BAN SPAIN
thank you!