Post by Canucksoldier on Apr 22, 2007 23:05:17 GMT -5
The Ladder's Early History by The Founder of the First Ladder
A long time ago in a land far far away ... wait ... no that was another story and someone made it into a movie. Back to the matter at hand ... In order to talk about the history of the ladder it's best to start at the beginning. I was born... no no too much information. I first starting playing CIV with the DOS version, which was CIV II I believe back in the late 80's and it morphed over time into the Multi Player Gold Edition (MGE) in the early 90's. You could play online with real people. Quite a concept in its day when gaming had been a solitary concept prior. You have to remember the Internet was only just passing its infancy and becoming more mainstream.
I played infrequently and lost interest with the CIV II solitary version but when the new multiplay came out ... it was a whole new ball game. The MGE version was very playable and had some features that have only just now, been put back in the Civ franchise with Civ4. Namely ... the ability to hot join and for the AI to take over if you dropped out. Gamespy was not involved, and no specific matchmaking service was contracted, instead several different ones offered their services, the most popular being the MS Gaming Zone.
It was difficult to find games to play with other people, but I eventually found a link to a site that was a group of similar minded people wanting to play CIV. It was a ladder of players who wanted to be ranked against each other. First called Civleague and then Gameleague, a site ran by a couple university students. I signed up and soon met several devoted CIV players that you could count on playing a game to its conclusion. We would meet every weekend for months at a time playing the game and discussing politics in between turns. I'm not sure what happened to that original ladder ... interest wanes when real life takes over. CIV for me was becoming obsessive with too many late nights affecting my personal life. I dropped out.
One day years later I remember reading about CIVIII and I thought I wonder how that shapes up to the older version? So a Christmas came and I installed the game. Within a day I was hooked like a heroin addict discovering the warm intoxicating needle again. I would dream of advancing with catapults and swordsman on my enemies. And just when I was tiring again of the game ... out came the multiplayer version - Play the World. Oh my ... this was great, this was amazing. But how do you find a game? The lobby was full of individuals cursing at each other. If you did find a game, someone would quit when it wasn't going their way. I wanted to play a game with dedicated gamers that would play a game to its conclusion. I wanted to play with folks who would not quit and would play with respect and sportsmanship towards each other. I wanted to play with the same people I used to play the old CIVII version. I went to CIVFANATICS and Apolyton and asked ... if you want to play multiplay how do you find a game? Post here, post there, don't play MP it sucks ... etc etc. I mentioned the old ladder of long ago and a few people responded ... yeah that was great ...start a new one up.
And without realizing what I was getting into I did .... forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=38033. This was the original post advertising the existence of the ladder for CIV3 Play the World ... for All on Dec 1, 2002. I didn't have the server to host a proper ladder with a rating system like the old one (based on a algorithm of victories and losses vs the players position) but I did know of a free service from CASES, where my wife participated in card games, and where you reported your losses. This would work I thought. I also knew of a free service using ProBoards that was easy to setup - that would be the forum. So I started the ladder, the very first one and started advertising in the lobby. Shut-up f*g ... we don't need no stinking ladder, was the initial response but there was some legitimate interest from other players. The first players to join the ladder (that come to mind) were Friedrich Psitalon, Nealcain, Canuck Soldier, Levi, Stinkynuts and Sallinger. Then more people began to join ... I lost 100's of games to promote interest (unfortunately I still lose games today and I'm not trying to) ... and I advertised incessantly in the lobby. It started to catch on, going from 10 to 100 to 200 to 300 users ... and I needed help ...desperately. Friedrich knew what he was doing and started to make suggestions and soon became the VP admin, shortly followed thereafter by Canuck Soldier as another admin. As more people joined up rules were written and are for the most part the same today as they were.
My main objective you have to remember was just to play a game to its conclusion and while doing so, to have fun. But people are devious and more and more rules were necessary to organize play. When initially I floated the idea in CIVFANATICS I was told that organized play never works because of multiple accounts so I was especially diligent to prevent that by checking each person that joined. Disputes arose and needed to be mitigated. Non Reports needed to be administered, people penalized and ultimately kicked. It became personally more than I could handle truth be told, but I enjoyed the role, and despite what others will likely tell you ... there is a little bit of power tripping involved when you can rule on an issue even if only in a contrived community. We had our laws, police, entertainment and characters. Certain characters came and went. Sometimes I wonder what happened to them. Some were going to war. Some I assume have died. There were emails exchanged late at night over the silliest things now ... "he backstabbed me, or double moved here" and you would think this is the most important thing in the world. New game play developed CTONS, FFA, Teamers, and then the CCC was born. I had to shake my head understanding how people can get so riled over a game. But they did and still do. That is in many ways why the ladder was successful and not.
After several months a new character came on the scene ... Diplomaniac. A name for me that will remain infamous. He started out harmless enough but despite several warnings he carried on with multiple accounts. He was likely the first imposter (CIV4 requires a sign in now and prohibits people impostering like they did). He caused much havoc in the community. I worked tirelessly to remove the extra reports and multiple accounts. When he was eventually locked out he even managed to duplicate the ladder's main page and phised people into getting their account names and passwords. He was brilliant really. Again myself and other admins managed to work to 4 am in the morning trying to reverse he actions. We managed to control it once again. This cycle repeated several times over a couple of weeks as he would get access to the ladder and report or imposter people over and over. One night as I worked to reverse his reporting, I received an email from him on my personal email account (not used for gaming) threatening me and my family telling me where I lived and worked. I knew where he lived in NY and it was feasible that he could visit me. At 4 am under pressure from an obvious lunatic without assistance I did something that I have always since regretted but I felt at the time I had no choice. I told Diplomaniac in the lobby that he'd won, that it wasn't worth the hassle and I deleted the league in Cases. That was July 2003. Of course he later said I was kidding you man ... why did you do that ? A game shouldn't threaten your life and livelihood. In a couple of days SPM and CS picked up the pieces with Friedrich. I had backups of rules and other HTML files that comprised the ladder and the forum and sent to them privately to help rebuild. I apologized profusely but I felt like I was a pariah of sorts. The good news is that Diplomaniac disappeared. I returned for a short duration as AgntSmith in the new CIV3Players that SPM created. Eventually I was allowed to help with administration of the league again, helping out with non reports as a resurrected WarningU2. The league then duplicated for CIV4 and became CIV4Players. That is someone's history to write.
It only takes something to be gone to realize how much you value it, and I think people realized that the ladder is something they all had to support, rather than complain about. Deleting the original league was required I think now ... it became stronger because of it. The fact that it has been in existence since December 1, 2002, was reborn and grew to become two ladders is a testament to the idea, the people that administer it and especially those that play the ladder.
WarningU2
April 2007
A long time ago in a land far far away ... wait ... no that was another story and someone made it into a movie. Back to the matter at hand ... In order to talk about the history of the ladder it's best to start at the beginning. I was born... no no too much information. I first starting playing CIV with the DOS version, which was CIV II I believe back in the late 80's and it morphed over time into the Multi Player Gold Edition (MGE) in the early 90's. You could play online with real people. Quite a concept in its day when gaming had been a solitary concept prior. You have to remember the Internet was only just passing its infancy and becoming more mainstream.
I played infrequently and lost interest with the CIV II solitary version but when the new multiplay came out ... it was a whole new ball game. The MGE version was very playable and had some features that have only just now, been put back in the Civ franchise with Civ4. Namely ... the ability to hot join and for the AI to take over if you dropped out. Gamespy was not involved, and no specific matchmaking service was contracted, instead several different ones offered their services, the most popular being the MS Gaming Zone.
It was difficult to find games to play with other people, but I eventually found a link to a site that was a group of similar minded people wanting to play CIV. It was a ladder of players who wanted to be ranked against each other. First called Civleague and then Gameleague, a site ran by a couple university students. I signed up and soon met several devoted CIV players that you could count on playing a game to its conclusion. We would meet every weekend for months at a time playing the game and discussing politics in between turns. I'm not sure what happened to that original ladder ... interest wanes when real life takes over. CIV for me was becoming obsessive with too many late nights affecting my personal life. I dropped out.
One day years later I remember reading about CIVIII and I thought I wonder how that shapes up to the older version? So a Christmas came and I installed the game. Within a day I was hooked like a heroin addict discovering the warm intoxicating needle again. I would dream of advancing with catapults and swordsman on my enemies. And just when I was tiring again of the game ... out came the multiplayer version - Play the World. Oh my ... this was great, this was amazing. But how do you find a game? The lobby was full of individuals cursing at each other. If you did find a game, someone would quit when it wasn't going their way. I wanted to play a game with dedicated gamers that would play a game to its conclusion. I wanted to play with folks who would not quit and would play with respect and sportsmanship towards each other. I wanted to play with the same people I used to play the old CIVII version. I went to CIVFANATICS and Apolyton and asked ... if you want to play multiplay how do you find a game? Post here, post there, don't play MP it sucks ... etc etc. I mentioned the old ladder of long ago and a few people responded ... yeah that was great ...start a new one up.
And without realizing what I was getting into I did .... forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=38033. This was the original post advertising the existence of the ladder for CIV3 Play the World ... for All on Dec 1, 2002. I didn't have the server to host a proper ladder with a rating system like the old one (based on a algorithm of victories and losses vs the players position) but I did know of a free service from CASES, where my wife participated in card games, and where you reported your losses. This would work I thought. I also knew of a free service using ProBoards that was easy to setup - that would be the forum. So I started the ladder, the very first one and started advertising in the lobby. Shut-up f*g ... we don't need no stinking ladder, was the initial response but there was some legitimate interest from other players. The first players to join the ladder (that come to mind) were Friedrich Psitalon, Nealcain, Canuck Soldier, Levi, Stinkynuts and Sallinger. Then more people began to join ... I lost 100's of games to promote interest (unfortunately I still lose games today and I'm not trying to) ... and I advertised incessantly in the lobby. It started to catch on, going from 10 to 100 to 200 to 300 users ... and I needed help ...desperately. Friedrich knew what he was doing and started to make suggestions and soon became the VP admin, shortly followed thereafter by Canuck Soldier as another admin. As more people joined up rules were written and are for the most part the same today as they were.
My main objective you have to remember was just to play a game to its conclusion and while doing so, to have fun. But people are devious and more and more rules were necessary to organize play. When initially I floated the idea in CIVFANATICS I was told that organized play never works because of multiple accounts so I was especially diligent to prevent that by checking each person that joined. Disputes arose and needed to be mitigated. Non Reports needed to be administered, people penalized and ultimately kicked. It became personally more than I could handle truth be told, but I enjoyed the role, and despite what others will likely tell you ... there is a little bit of power tripping involved when you can rule on an issue even if only in a contrived community. We had our laws, police, entertainment and characters. Certain characters came and went. Sometimes I wonder what happened to them. Some were going to war. Some I assume have died. There were emails exchanged late at night over the silliest things now ... "he backstabbed me, or double moved here" and you would think this is the most important thing in the world. New game play developed CTONS, FFA, Teamers, and then the CCC was born. I had to shake my head understanding how people can get so riled over a game. But they did and still do. That is in many ways why the ladder was successful and not.
After several months a new character came on the scene ... Diplomaniac. A name for me that will remain infamous. He started out harmless enough but despite several warnings he carried on with multiple accounts. He was likely the first imposter (CIV4 requires a sign in now and prohibits people impostering like they did). He caused much havoc in the community. I worked tirelessly to remove the extra reports and multiple accounts. When he was eventually locked out he even managed to duplicate the ladder's main page and phised people into getting their account names and passwords. He was brilliant really. Again myself and other admins managed to work to 4 am in the morning trying to reverse he actions. We managed to control it once again. This cycle repeated several times over a couple of weeks as he would get access to the ladder and report or imposter people over and over. One night as I worked to reverse his reporting, I received an email from him on my personal email account (not used for gaming) threatening me and my family telling me where I lived and worked. I knew where he lived in NY and it was feasible that he could visit me. At 4 am under pressure from an obvious lunatic without assistance I did something that I have always since regretted but I felt at the time I had no choice. I told Diplomaniac in the lobby that he'd won, that it wasn't worth the hassle and I deleted the league in Cases. That was July 2003. Of course he later said I was kidding you man ... why did you do that ? A game shouldn't threaten your life and livelihood. In a couple of days SPM and CS picked up the pieces with Friedrich. I had backups of rules and other HTML files that comprised the ladder and the forum and sent to them privately to help rebuild. I apologized profusely but I felt like I was a pariah of sorts. The good news is that Diplomaniac disappeared. I returned for a short duration as AgntSmith in the new CIV3Players that SPM created. Eventually I was allowed to help with administration of the league again, helping out with non reports as a resurrected WarningU2. The league then duplicated for CIV4 and became CIV4Players. That is someone's history to write.
It only takes something to be gone to realize how much you value it, and I think people realized that the ladder is something they all had to support, rather than complain about. Deleting the original league was required I think now ... it became stronger because of it. The fact that it has been in existence since December 1, 2002, was reborn and grew to become two ladders is a testament to the idea, the people that administer it and especially those that play the ladder.
WarningU2
April 2007