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Post by WarningU2 on Jan 1, 2006 23:40:01 GMT -5
What is with this tendency now (in teamers) that if you are losing players immediately want to concede ? After spending nearly an hour trying to set up a game today, we finally got started, only to end in 40 minutes when two of our noob team mates were eliminated and the call to concede was raised. Am I the only person that finds this annoying? Seemed like I was the only person that wanted to play on today. If you disagree you are just bullied into agreeing to concede. I have found that when your back is to the wall losing (and believe me I have a lot of experience in this) I actually enjoy the game. Sometimes the battles can go one way or another and you can have fun with different moves and tactics. Maybe I'm the sadist but I enjoy getting pummelled and watching my men spit blood. But no more on this ladder. It's all about winning it seems. "We can't win lets concede so I can find another game I can win". Pardon ? Thats not what the ladder was supposed to be about. Shakes my head with heavy sigh.
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Post by yyrkroon on Jan 2, 2006 3:53:38 GMT -5
I would also likely concede at that point.
You migh find it enjoyable to play a hopeless scenario as the loser, or you might find it enjoyable to grind out every last unit and city as the winner, but I suspect most people don't.
In my gaming experience, online (since the mid 80's BBS's) and off, it is usually considered poor form not to offer to concede once the game has been decided.
I even remember a player almost being banned from future Age of Empires tournaments because he insisted on playing until his very last unit was hunted down and destroyed.
Most players don't find non-competitive play very exciting - which I would think would be even more true for ladder players.
Just as there is little fun for a noob to get hammered by a vet or for a vet to hammer a noob; there is also usually little fun in grinding out a long since determined victory or loss.
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Post by lorddragon on Jan 2, 2006 3:54:34 GMT -5
While admittedly some people do concede too readily, I understand why people concede most of the time.
When it becomes clear, beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are dead, half your team is killed or whatever, then really the other team has already won. At that point most people find little fun in the game. I mean its boring spending an hour slowly grinding down a crippled foe, or just delaying an attack that you have no chance of stopping.
If you really want to fight to the last breath, try a cton:) No one else will make you retire when you are hurting in that.
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Post by Sidhe on Jan 2, 2006 4:27:00 GMT -5
Personally I find the adversity fun, and there is sometimes a chance you didn't quite think of, but agree most times you should let it go at that point. Having said that though I was playing with a guy and we lost to a really well though out strategy that I'm still dying to put into practice. Kinda like guinea pigs. I asked if my team mate wanted to quit or fight it out to the bitter end, he said bitter end. In this case we played on till I was then dead, and in a few turns so was my ally. It gave the opposition the fun of crushing us like dogs, and was good defensive practice. Personally I enjoyed it more than if we would have just left, but that sort of thing is hard to call.
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Post by tommynt on Jan 2, 2006 5:23:39 GMT -5
My last teamers where allways played till so end or at least turn 80 cause i just try to get a good crowd. easy like that where is the use of noobs in teamers??
ya game ends very often as u say so draw your consequences
sometimes it s also that 1 team is run over by chariots and axes and can only build bows and wait till they die to catas - no use to go on i guess - I played nuts load of game but never lost when other palyer or team was built in like that
and i really dont see where the fun of playing a lost game should be - sure if 2 noobs were killed and u are just killing the 2 noobs of other team u can go on - but if u are just built in or its a clear 2 vs 4 situation i see no sense
if u have fun in pain go out of the door naked - u ll suffer bad atm
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Post by WarningU2 on Jan 2, 2006 8:33:35 GMT -5
Ok then so far I guess I am the minority and I 'll throw the soapbox and my tiny violin out the windows. Conceding has its place true enough, but I guess what I was trying to say is that it seems it is too readily offered up at the first moment the win is not assured. And please don't think if you are in a game with me that I will be a pr**k and insist on playing on. If the majority want to quit then so be it - I will of course concede too. On the subject of noobies ... well we were all new to the game at one point. I think it behooves us to take a noobie under our wing and show him the ropes rather than the door. It will grow the ladder more. We should not immediately toss a noobie from the game.
You may not realize it, but because I play the odd non ladder game, the caliber of play amongst the majority of the ladder far exceeds the CIV4 community. The non ladder do not have a clue how to play but our CIV4Players do. We dominate.
Oh and on the subject of pain ... I just ran out the door naked to put the garbage out. It wasn't too bad. The freezing rain we have at the moment did however stick to my member so when I came back in and tried to urinate, I had to wait till the end thawed out before I could go. That was both exhilarating and excruciating.
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Post by NicodaMax on Jan 2, 2006 9:12:16 GMT -5
As somewhat of a noob myself I don't know whether dramatic comebacks are possible or probable in teamers, in cton I've seen some last minute saves from people that could have conceded half way through the game, though only to come in third or fourth instead of last or dead. In teamers though, it must be even harder to do and there's less incentive to try. IMHO, right now, in the Ladder, I think there's a little to much emphasis on winning instead of having fun, but I concede to the fact that Ladder is about competitive play.
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Post by MMV on Jan 2, 2006 11:03:34 GMT -5
never concede
but - with some players, it's a "mindset" - in which case if they don't want to play anymore, they "won't."
Conceding without majority vote? That's a quit and the player should report to all remaining in the game - including those who are on his own team.
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Post by tommynt on Jan 2, 2006 11:42:01 GMT -5
sounds like i wont do many teamers with mmv
there are 2 groups imo the noob and the learing noob
noob: dude who plays the game for the 1. time but rocks in ego shooters, most times arogant and disgusting, somtimes quits or drops and blames other when dying
learing noob: newer ladder player who possible played other civ versions before. he looks how others play and listen to hints and advise.
I ll allways play group 2 but try to never play group 1
and civ isnt that random, so what many people call odds is in fact just hoping for big mistake of other team. espacially after patch the odds for a chariot beating a bow in city are VERY bad - i call it hopeless
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Post by Sidhe on Jan 2, 2006 13:07:05 GMT -5
Ok then so far I guess I am the minority and I 'll throw the soapbox and my tiny violin out the windows. Conceding has its place true enough, but I guess what I was trying to say is that it seems it is too readily offered up at the first moment the win is not assured. And please don't think if you are in a game with me that I will be a pr**k and insist on playing on. If the majority want to quit then so be it - I will of course concede too. On the subject of noobies ... well we were all new to the game at one point. I think it behooves us to take a noobie under our wing and show him the ropes rather than the door. It will grow the ladder more. We should not immediately toss a noobie from the game. You may not realize it, but because I play the odd non ladder game, the caliber of play amongst the majority of the ladder far exceeds the CIV4 community. The non ladder do not have a clue how to play but our CIV4Players do. We dominate. Oh and on the subject of pain ... I just ran out the door naked to put the garbage out. It wasn't too bad. The freezing rain we have at the moment did however stick to my member so when I came back in and tried to urinate, I had to wait till the end thawed out before I could go. That was both exhilarating and excruciating. Actually that sounds rather like what I feel when playing the hopless situation and then turning it around. Nice unintentional metaphor Tommy I can't believe in that teamer they were calling you fast fingers, you really should of told them how you do that, I can take out scouts or any units before they can move every time and I can move before anyone else, there's no great secret to it Sorry: about a teamer I subbed in, I was dying to let them know how to be fast, but I thought nah, let Tommy have his moment
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Post by markweston on Jan 2, 2006 13:32:20 GMT -5
I'm with you U2
As long as I have some resources to call on, and options to try, and small victories to win (even if ultimate game victory is out of reach) then I enjoy playing losing situations. And I've seen a team in a 3v3 go one player down in the first third of the game and still go on to win.
Mind you, I was in the opposing team in the game that U2 mentioned, and it occurs to me that you weren't very assertive in saying you wanted to play on. If I'd read it as anything more than a vague preference for playing on, I'd have spoken up in favour of continuing the game. (Maybe you said more in team-chat, but obviously I wouldn't have seen that.)
It seems to me a good default position is that Ladder Players Don't Quit. If your team-mate wants to play on, you should play on too; with good grace, and without trying to pressure them to concede. It's the polite thing to do, and it's in the rules.
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agent_x7
Settler
Agent of Truth
Posts: 65
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Post by agent_x7 on Jan 2, 2006 17:44:22 GMT -5
What is with this tendency now (in teamers) that if you are losing players immediately want to concede ? After spending nearly an hour trying to set up a game today, we finally got started, only to end in 40 minutes when two of our noob team mates were eliminated and the call to concede was raised. Am I the only person that finds this annoying? Seemed like I was the only person that wanted to play on today. If you disagree you are just bullied into agreeing to concede. I have found that when your back is to the wall losing (and believe me I have a lot of experience in this) I actually enjoy the game. Sometimes the battles can go one way or another and you can have fun with different moves and tactics. Maybe I'm the sadist but I enjoy getting pummelled and watching my men spit blood. But no more on this ladder. It's all about winning it seems. "We can't win lets concede so I can find another game I can win". Pardon ? Thats not what the ladder was supposed to be about. Shakes my head with heavy sigh. I REMEMEBER THAT GAME: we pawned your asses cuz those guys had empty capitals....I was able to moove from 280 to 75 on the ranking because of that. I think conceding is reasonable when you have a 3v5 game.
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Post by Magzi on Jan 2, 2006 17:58:24 GMT -5
No WarningU2. There are still plenty of us that will enjoy playing despite odds looking against us..........Maybe that's why I'm never high up the ladder? All good fun
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Post by yyrkroon on Jan 2, 2006 20:39:23 GMT -5
sidhe : It's a big secret to me. How do you move 'first?' w2u : re: cold - that sucks; our high in Florida was 78 degrees today.
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Post by Sidhe on Jan 3, 2006 2:00:23 GMT -5
use the keypad not the mouse. near the turnover of the turn click on the unit you want and keep clicking it, if it's a stack time it so that you have all selected at the turnover. hit the key to attack at the turnover of the turn and bamn the scout or whatever is dead . Use ctrl A to move all automoves or end your turn with ctrl enter, which is even faster, you have to do a bit of guess work sometimes but move all your units before the next turn and see if you guessed correctly. One or two moves you can do fast, with the rest do them all as automoves. Quite simple really. Sorry Tommy cats out of the bag Of course if your enemy also does this it's a toss up who moves first but never mind Now civ is about strategy not fast fingers I personally find it a more rewarding game than c3c, but I still play it.
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Post by civfloaterhun on Jan 3, 2006 13:37:21 GMT -5
Since i tell everyone about using keys whom i play with (Im really angry at devs that they f**k up a strat game with this. Soon people have to trink coffe before game, and is not enjoyable anymore), in short time we have to figure out if its becomming random who gets the kill, and who escapes.
I mean there can be a certain loop that checks key/mouse puffers of the participating players, and maybe who sooner joined the staging room will always be the winner. (i have this bad feeling)
If it were really random who gets the first moove when everyones moove puffer is full with the killer moove, than it would be at least just, but still makes the game less enjoyable.
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Post by WarningU2 on Jan 3, 2006 15:19:07 GMT -5
ok getting a little off topic here. The topic was about what people thought about conceding not about whether the game sucks ... there are enough threads on that I'm locking this as asked and answered ... thanks for your comments folks.
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Post by Avogadro on Jan 3, 2006 17:07:27 GMT -5
Hehe I get to unlock it to say "Hehe" ;D
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