Lord_Phan
Settler
Member of the Nation of Domination
Posts: 52
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Post by Lord_Phan on Nov 19, 2005 10:36:37 GMT -5
and on the issue of History. I am far far far ahead of everyone here on historical knowledge. If you want I can give you detailed 11+ Page Chronologies and essays on the Crusade or any other event.
My library of historical knowledge is vast. I read history in my spare time. Why do you think I like the game of CIV?
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Post by whiplash on Nov 19, 2005 10:41:41 GMT -5
I'm sure LP is sincere; and I know he is well read. The problem I have is how do we know that the history books are not corrupted? Who was it that said "History is written by the victors"?
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Post by Lestat on Nov 19, 2005 11:48:41 GMT -5
and on the issue of History. I am far far far ahead of everyone here on historical knowledge. If you want I can give you detailed 11+ Page Chronologies and essays on the Crusade or any other event. My library of historical knowledge is vast. I read history in my spare time. Why do you think I like the game of CIV? Then u kno how Noble Im
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Post by Sidhe on Nov 19, 2005 13:23:25 GMT -5
Your right Phan I've never read the bible But woe unto you that are that are rich, for you have received your consolation. But woe unto you that are full! for ye shall hunger But I say unto you which hear, love your enemies, do good to them which hate you. Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which dispitefuly use you. And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other. For if you love them which love you, what thank have ye? For sinners also do even the same. And if ye lend to them of whom you hope to receive,what thank have ye? For sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again. But love ye thy enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the highest: for he is kind unto the thankful and to the evil. Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father is also merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged:condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven. Your right being liberal is bad and being conservative to the core is good. How silly of me I wonder where I got that idea from? Every man woman and child in Canaan was killed in the name of God, this is in the bible Phan. Is it lies then? So which part of the above is also lies,rhetoric and untrue, think your shooting yourself in the foot there, if you followed your own faith as mentioned above you couldn't possible be a as right wing as you are. I think it is you who appears the more ignorant. Being that history books are all wrong and you seem to think that includes your own bible,it seems anything that doesn't meet your approval can be easily ignored, this is precisely why fundamentalism is so dangerous, whichever side of the world you live on. As for the acts of the Catholic church I suggest you read up on the actions of the inquisition and also on indulgences,Where the wealthy were forgiven their sins for money they're are a myriad of corrupt activities and recorded atrocities documented about the church, I suggest you read about them, or are all history books lies, except the ones that meet your criteria. Phan like I said if you want to live in a fantasy world where the church has never done any wrong you do so. It's just the rest of the world doesn't so don't expect us to listen to you when you tell us you are well read, well read but not well learned. Explains why against all credible evidence you believe the world is 6000 years old too really. It's plain for all here to see Phan that that which you accuse me of is in fact exactly what you yourself are guilty of. yes I can't prove any of it. Because it's all documented history or recorded in biblical texts. It's all innacurate of course, yes: Welcome to La la land
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Post by archon on Nov 19, 2005 19:30:05 GMT -5
Think of this: all religions claim they're right and the followers will go to heaven and those who don't to hell. Religions are geographically dependent. Since there's only 1 god and 1 religion that's right you have no chance to go to heaven if you happen to be born in the wrong place in the wrong environment. God is a righteous perfect judge. In the end, every one will be judged completely righteously, much more than you could ever think of, whether in the past a person has ever heard of YAWEH or not.
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Post by archon on Nov 19, 2005 19:32:36 GMT -5
Everything is a matter of interpretation, and that in itself is a matter of interpretation.
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Post by zzZhenon on Nov 20, 2005 9:49:38 GMT -5
LMAO Zhenon 1st thing Lincoln going to war with the south was not about freeing the Slaves, That was Secondary Who said anything about going to war? I just said that freeing slaves was considered liberal. That's like me saying Conservatism = Pat Roberts Christian Right.
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Post by zzZhenon on Nov 20, 2005 9:54:30 GMT -5
They masquarade as the defenders of the oppressed. Total bull! History proves this. The civil rights movement of the '60's was opposed by the liberals (Democrats). Southern Democratic Governors defended the "traditional" way of life. It took a Republican Congress to pass the Civil Rights Act. Southern democrats were ultra conservative. It's only been within the past 50 years that the roles of both parties have reversed. Republicans used to be liberal and Democrats were conservative. I thought this was common knowledge.
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Post by Sidhe on Nov 20, 2005 13:40:06 GMT -5
well not that it matters anyway Zhenon, politics is in some way like philosophy's in that if you talk about a subject long enough you'll probably be able to tell someone that black is white and white is black, and hey if it's politically expedient for it to be white again, it soon will be. Hey sooner or later you might even believe yourself I'm afraid if everything was indeed a matter of interpretation and that a matter of interpretation, we'd all be philosophising and nothing would ever get done. At some point we have to say what is and what isn't right although how exactly we enforce this of course is a subject of debate. The bible was an attempt to do just that but some(by no means close to all) of it's laws are perhaps not as relevant as they were. Of course what is and what isn't right these days sometimes changes with the politics & economics of any given situation. Indeed like religion, that is what ethics tries to do, set some ground rules that aren't open to interpretation. Sadly ethics is often not something that sits well with most politicians, it certainly seems often to be their last consideration.
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Post by Avogadro on Nov 29, 2005 9:37:56 GMT -5
The bible and other sacred scriptures were written at a time when people needed "moral codes" to live in a more civilized manner. Don't get me wrong if one draws strength to do the right thing by reading them that's fine. I also like to read scriptures although I do not focus on one particular religion. I like to read these things simply to reflect and become self-aware of my strengths and weaknesses. Religion when used properly serves as a vehicle to the development of one's spirituality. We are all spiritual whether we affiliate to a particular domination or not. For me the value of the scripture are in the messages and concepts they convey, not in the language used. I find it more important to see "how" a reading makes me feel then to examine the words to see "what" exact step might be required from me. I dont think God has one way, expects us all to follow his will to the letter. HE/she/it simply wants su to grow the same as any good parent wishes a child to grow. I can undertsnad Phan concentrating on the "words" especially if he is a historian. This would be his job to read them in such a matter. But myself as a nurse focus on the "hope" foudn in the scriptures, the underlying "goodness" of God and the ability to find "purpose" in one's suffering. Job is not the only one to suffer. We will all be faced with dying some day, sucks but its a part of life. I therefore reflect on values in order to attempt to mend my relationships with both myself and my loved ones. If I am to die someday I wish to have some of my work done before the final stages. IT would be intimidating for me to know that I am about to die and have so many "issues" to resolve within myself and towards others. I therefore find it usefull to become self-aware and to do a bit everyday so that I may not be so overwhelmed in the end of my life trying to "come clean" before my last breath. I like the philosophical definition of spiritually which is often refereed to as the "capacity to come out of oneself to forge relationships with others". The power of empathy and understanding. The capacity to reflect upon the meaning of one's life to find meaning, love, and a purpose. In mind mind this is all that matters. WE can debate on GOD, Paradise etc etc. Fact of the matter, it is a debate and until we die, we will never know what lies ahead. These things are supernatural in nature, they are beyond the reach of our ability to conceptualize. We can theorize about what is to come but will never have the proof until we do cross over to the other side. This being said, I working in palliative care, can postulate that no matter what religion one may follow, or not follow, matters of the spirit seem to grow in importance as we are earning end-of-life. Everybody before dying needs to know that: they have made a difference in the lives of others, That they have loved and have been loved in return, That their lives had meaning, that they leave some form of legacy through their children or their work to better mankind.
"The way we feel when we come to die is very much dependent on the way we have lived" The Dalai Lama "Learn to live and you will know how to die, learn to die and you will know how to live" Paul Solomon
We are the most spiritual when we are the most human. Do not let your religion keep you from seeing the inherent goodness in all.
Use the tool of self-reflection to direct your life. How do you feel about what you do? It is by looking into the mirror that we become aware of where we have strayed. It allows for spiritual and personal growth on so many levels. WE cannot change and grow without looking back at what we do, how we feel etc. We are human and because of this we have biases and "quirks" of many kinds. It is by being aware of these that we stand a greater chance of objectively come to judge others. Do I feel this way about him because I think..... or Do I feel this way because it is so. We have all been socialized into being the persons we are today. To be unaware of what makes us tick as individuals is doing ourselves a big disservice. The only thing we can be sure off is what we wish to be. As for religion, death and such matter I'll simply say that...
"problems need to be solved, true mysteries do not"
So who care what religion you have, as far as I can tell they all promote love, peace and righteousness. It is in the twisting of their true meaning that troubles arise. I have yet to see a scripture tell someone to "hate". All preach tolerance and understanding, generosity and moral obligations. And I mean religions, I know there are a few cults out there that may speak on a different more pessimistic tone. But any religion that preaches on daily life,,and not the Armageddon, talks of peace, good will and respect.
Cheers
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Post by Sidhe on Dec 5, 2005 20:19:02 GMT -5
If only everyone would take there religion with the same objectivity and subjectivity you do Avo. One thing I can't stand is being told that in this world now when morals have moved on a particular sexual or behavioural morality 2500 years ago is still an unquestionably acceptable code, or that somehow it's right to take human life, even if there found to be innocent after the fact, because the ends justify the means, in some twisted little self fulfulling argument, that has no basis in fact. Look at the bible as a morale compass, with a deep and rewarding message, not as something set in stone. Don't force your narrow minded concepts on societies outside of your own, even if it is with a will to help, it's often destructive. You may live your life in a moral black area but unfortunately the wolrd is shades of grey, any ethical situation is just that, situational. Here's an interesting ethical question I found to think on. A train track with 5 people roped to it, a run away car speeding towards it. you can flip the switch and divert it onto another track where only 1 person is tied to the track, or you can let it kill 5? What do you do? Simple kill one to save 5. Ok your standing on a bridge, now you can push a large man off the bridge and under the carriage to save five people, what do you do? Not so clear now is it? Rules are made to be broken, it doesn't mean that we should find ways to break them, it simply means that when a situation arises where the rules are no longer apt, they need to change. BTW my answer to that ethical question was slightly unorthodox
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Post by Avogadro on Dec 6, 2005 12:26:41 GMT -5
I agree, the lines are not alwasy black and white. However if one spends a bit of time reflecting on their own values and comes to understand the way they are influenced by their own quirks then at least this person gives themselves the "chance" to see things in a more objective manner. No one is 100% right all of the time but if you work at it at least you get to use some "critical thinking" to influence you. (critical thinking being the capacity to draw upon acquired knowledge to help you navigate thourgh something new or not clearly defined) Point is if we spend more time looking for the "common" good values which have errputed in the past centuries such as world aid, medicine, social services and less time spent on thinking about differences between people then we would be better off. The notion of evil is not a new one, mankind has always had to deal with dark, sad things. But I think it is in cultivating the finer things that we will evolve to resolve alot fo these issues. You dont tell someone they are wrong in their values, you simply show them all the good that your own values have brought to you. you cannot change the world with proclamations but you can help a neighbor and change his world. Make enough of a difference to inspire him and he may change the world of another. In this fashion I hope that mankind has evolved. Sure racism and other things still exist but in most places they have become shameful morals. You may dislike other cultures or sexual orientations but at least it is no longer acceptable to publically say so. By not allowing these notions to be "politically correct" we are teaching our kids to be more tolerant. i remember being young in my hometown and hearing racist jokes and such in coffee shops. Now a man would look like a total idiot if he spoke that way in public. These are great things as the children do not grow up thinking these attitudes and slanders are the "norm"
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Post by archon on Dec 8, 2005 0:56:58 GMT -5
Racism and 'reverse' racism is unfortunately still the norm in people, both old and young.
I find it very ironic that people still describe other people of different melanin concentrations as that of another 'race'. There is no such thing as 'race'. I wonder where this race concept came form...
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Post by whiplash on Dec 8, 2005 1:45:11 GMT -5
Sorry, but Good, Bad, or Indifferent there are differences between people of the various racial, ethnic and cultural classes.
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Post by Avogadro on Dec 8, 2005 7:10:06 GMT -5
yet many more similarities then differences....
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Post by whiplash on Dec 8, 2005 9:36:10 GMT -5
Sure, but in our PC world we have to make believe that the differences don't exist.
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Post by zzZhenon on Dec 8, 2005 12:11:42 GMT -5
I think the biggest difference is in the social classes -- poor, middle class, & wealthy. If all "races" of people had an equal poor-to-rich ratio, I bet we'd see much less racism. If we gave the trailer trash of each race a bunch of money, however, they'd just be trailer trash with money. It would take a few generations to "fix" them. To quote Tupac: "Instead of a war on drugs, we need a war on poverty."
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Post by archon on Dec 10, 2005 0:34:12 GMT -5
The term "race" is used as differing between people with darker/lighter skin and slightly different bone structures.
Obviously there are cultural differences. That's a separate issue.
Here's a thought:
Does religion influence a culture, or a culture influence a religion?
Can both be one and the same?
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Post by Sidhe on Dec 11, 2005 16:46:48 GMT -5
Racism and 'reverse' racism is unfortunately still the norm in people, both old and young. I find it very ironic that people still describe other people of different melanin concentrations as that of another 'race'. There is no such thing as 'race'. I wonder where this race concept came form... It's used to describe people of different ethnic backgrounds be they French, English, Chinese or Kenyan. I would imagine the origins of the word race probably come from the dubious assumption that people who weren't as 'advanced' as us and who seemed to the 'civilized' cultures of Europe to be little more than savages , could not somehow be of the same race. Bigots have rarely been that clever. The differences between people are due to differing levels of education, environment and there culture. The bare bones of it are we all share an almost identical genotype and a common ancestry. Simply put take an English child and raise it in China and you'll be hard pressed to find any difference between that person and the indigenous population. The widely held belief is that we originated in Africa anyway. Which explains why white pigmentation is recessive, as it is simply an adaptation. It just so happens that we became more advanced, which is often put down to having to out-develop a host of neighbors, usually by violent means. Had the tables been reversed there would be no difference. Now there's a thought The term "race" is used as differing between people with darker/lighter skin and slightly different bone structures. Obviously there are cultural differences. That's a separate issue. Here's a thought: Does religion influence a culture, or a culture influence a religion? Can both be one and the same? Religion in some cultures is hugely influential: Iran, Tibet, India etc. In others especially the secular ones mostly of Europe, it has become supplanted somewhat. I think both is the case, where religion is introduced it can often adopt differing ideas from an indigenous culture. A religion influences culture and vice a versa. As for them being both one and the same, I'd say culture is influenced but also develops independently of religion. Literature, art, music, Philosophy being cases in point. Theres also that Zeitgeist thing, where culture moves with the times and reflects changing attitudes, sometimes in opposition to religion but not always. Culture is an aggregate of all forms of Religious artistic and behavioural expression in society.
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Post by whiplash on Dec 19, 2005 12:13:52 GMT -5
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