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Post by Death to ALL on Apr 24, 2007 17:06:40 GMT -5
Bring back the fun and excitement, make it more random, so what? Randomness and variety is fun. Random starts are fine in games for fun, but in the highly competitive atmosphere of the CCC, randomness and luck should be mitigated as much as possible in favor of balanced and roughly equivalent starts. I would disagree. Randomness and luck should be a part. This is something that has been much missed in CIV4. It was this aspect of the game that made C3C CCC so much more exciting, imo.
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Post by MookieNJ on Apr 24, 2007 17:37:50 GMT -5
There is randomness and luck in any game --
* Quality of land * Placement of civs * Resource distribution * Combat results * Great Person birth results
-- playing on crazy unbalanced maps isn't needed to have fun and exciting games. They penalize teams who show true teamwork and strategy in favor of praying for a lucky start and going for an easy kill.
Digging your way out of a "no-win" situation can be fun and exciting, but they should have no place in the CCC. Golfers may play with handicaps for fun, but when Tiger Woods plays in a tournament, he isn't penalized in favor of making the event more exciting for the other players. He's the best in the world for a reason, and to be the best you should have to beat the best. Not get lucky and kill a completely isolated player because the map turned out that way.
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Post by eiffel on Apr 24, 2007 19:04:47 GMT -5
Go tell this to Civ3 CCC fans... they play such games with great excitement for ages I agree we play always the same old games with fixes strategies, getting even worse lately... we need some excitement, some surprise, something else... Play chess if you want fair land and equal resources at start... you'll be sure to get horses ;D
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Post by MookieNJ on Apr 24, 2007 20:22:30 GMT -5
Go tell this to Civ3 CCC fans... I guess there will always be differences between C4P and C3P ... and there's nothing wrong with that!
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Post by DrShot on Apr 24, 2007 20:59:18 GMT -5
There is randomness and luck in any game -- * Quality of land * Placement of civs * Resource distribution * Combat results * Great Person birth results -- playing on crazy unbalanced maps isn't needed to have fun and exciting games. They penalize teams who show true teamwork and strategy in favor of praying for a lucky start and going for an easy kill. Digging your way out of a "no-win" situation can be fun and exciting, but they should have no place in the CCC. Golfers may play with handicaps for fun, but when Tiger Woods plays in a tournament, he isn't penalized in favor of making the event more exciting for the other players. He's the best in the world for a reason, and to be the best you should have to beat the best. Not get lucky and kill a completely isolated player because the map turned out that way. You cannot have it every way, pick a side. There is randomness and luck in any game --I would hope so, anything beyond a coin toss,if even, would display such characteristics. They penalize teams who show true teamwork and strategy in favor of praying for a lucky start and going for an easy kill.Presumably this is random/tbg maps. That said statrting location aside this is an accepted and nearly played out format. Does everyone really need identical starts with access to each resource? I disagree with your presumption that team work is penalized by a map hat is not the same (for everyone) every time. I find the exact opposite to be in order. Team work, by definition, is working together to accomplish a common goal. Overcoming diversity is the common goal I would hope, not to be the best at replicating the same game to the same exact move on clan nite every gathering. Surely you do not mean that you and yours are the only ones capable of "true" team work and others are reduced to 'praying for a lucky start and going for an easy kill' Digging your way out of a "no-win" situation can be fun and exciting, but they should have no place in the CCC.This almost makes me believe that you suggest an equal team strength for teams as well as an equal start for land and resources, likely I am mistaken. Golfers may play with handicaps for fun, but when Tiger Woods plays in a tournament, he isn't penalized in favor of making the event more exciting for the other players.Ok, poor golf metaphor, this one just went out of bounds, two stroke penalty. Golf Courses ARE NOT all created equal! Golf courses are different, the best players are geared to adapt to varied scenarios and situations, be it they are out of the gate or as they arise(like recovery from an errant shot). This is not done for the other players sake, it is done for the tourney's sake. Excitement and energy abounds when we watch people struggle to overcome adversity. We do not look to wards linear events for this gratification. He's the best in the world for a reason, and to be the best you should have to beat the best.Agreed, he is currently the world best. ( I like to think of players like David Duval, not that I cared for him much, that have dropped off he face of the Earth so to speak...) Tiger is the best because he CAN and repeatedly DOES overcome misfortune and dire situations that he is thrust into, regardless if from his own doings or otherwise(weather for example). I think Tiger would quit competitive golf entirely if it became the linear , same old same old that is being eluded to herein. Competitive is the operative word, I do not care for a redundant 'competition'. Chess, well there is no on /off for regicide for chess, Eiffel, sorry.
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Post by NumberOneMercury on Apr 25, 2007 10:12:14 GMT -5
I agree with the people asking for more randomness. Right now the CCC is more like an abstract practice exercise than a real war game. I think it needs a bit more complexity and reality to appeal to civ players (such as myself) and settings like start anywhere provide that.
I don't always host games like this, mainly because they take a bit longer since 1 kill is not decisive unlike regular tbg/insea games, but I definitely appreciate them.
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Post by monoha on Apr 25, 2007 12:09:19 GMT -5
hmmm
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Post by toratoratora on Apr 25, 2007 12:16:12 GMT -5
hmmm Hmm Get back in youre own forums
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moineau
Warrior
Administrator
Posts: 330
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Post by moineau on Apr 25, 2007 12:58:41 GMT -5
hehe spy (private joke)
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Post by toratoratora on Apr 25, 2007 14:29:24 GMT -5
And I thought the French didnt have a sence of Humour glad to see some do
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Post by eiffel on Apr 25, 2007 17:44:50 GMT -5
And I thought Bantams didn't have a brain ;D I was so right... Just kidding :friends:
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Post by geforced on Apr 25, 2007 21:18:05 GMT -5
Here's yet another idea to throw out to the breeze: What if we tried adding an event that specifically targetted the single player community, in an attempt to lure more single player people into the multiplayer realm. My idea is this: the staff starts a game with no opponents and saves the file at the start. Each clan is given the save and allowed to play it from the start by as many players and as many times as they choose to try and achieve an ultimate score by a particular date, or reach a milestone as quickly as possible (such as liberalism, music, take your pick - can be a new target every ccc!). This sort of event would challenge teams to form a think-tank on the fly to really come up with deep strategies of how and what to build, how to expand (if it's a multicity game), how to tech, the works. The save would be posted at a set time during the day, probably on the first day, and by discretion of the staff there would be a particular ending submission time whereby nothing could be submitted after. I think with the addition of this sort of event to the ccc, we might see some active GOTM single player people showing up to join in our fun, and perhaps entice them into real multiplayer games as well. I think this is a brilliant idea. There are tools to easily see if one has cheated. We could borrow from the experience of the moderators at civfanatics. Playing over a weekend like this would actually be bloody fun and something for everyone in the clan to gather to while waiting for other events! I think its brilliant. And it will make us better players too as we will discuss our tactics in different situations. Something we dont have time for usually on the fly in a mp game. this is a really nice idea, somthing constructive to do between events
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redphoenix
Warrior
CCCAC Representative
Posts: 253
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Post by redphoenix on Apr 27, 2007 1:46:47 GMT -5
I don't always host games like this, mainly because they take a bit longer since 1 kill is not decisive unlike regular tbg/insea games, but I definitely appreciate them. This also one of the many reasons why this format, or anything like it should be included in CCC. You can still rebound from losing a player in this setup. Even losing 2 players. Makes events a lot more exciting.
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Post by Atomation on Apr 28, 2007 3:04:54 GMT -5
Last time I checked, all the golfers started in the same spot and hit off the same tee area. Other than weather, there is very little here random from player to player, and when weather acts up they often wait to take their shots. In fact, I think the golf analogy points out exactly what sort of middle ground we should have - a very random map, but ultimately all players are shooting from the same land. This would be some sort of a mirror map but mirrored like a pattern on wallpaper - over and over with smaller increments rather than just a direct mirror. Or just make the scripts in existence better. There is absolutely no reason why a map can't be bizarre, difficult, and novel while still maintaining balance.
The comparisons to c3c are silly. C3c is a totally different game, and I would say much less land dependent than civ4. You can build new cities much sooner to take the resources you need. Even if you made map scripts absolutely identical to civ3, you crazy guys still wouldn't like the way the civ4 game played out on that map. And I wouldn't either.
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