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Post by Bantams on Sept 1, 2007 15:17:32 GMT -5
I agree with OTE if no simular player is available any sub should be allowed if the majority agree but only if!
If all else fails yahoo me i may be online ;D
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Post by longhorn on Sept 1, 2007 15:46:35 GMT -5
Once again you distort the truth. The MANY reports that came in on you cited a MUCH LONGER than 10 minute wait, MUCH LONGER. You are trying to make it seem like at 10 mins and 1 sec everyone is out to get you. You held the players in that game HOSTAGE by refusing to continue well after 10 minutes were up. Yes I find the people that filed the many complaints against you credible. You seem to want to continue this everyones a liar but Tony sham. Look, we all see through your crocodile tears. I tell you for the last time, be a man, report your losses, and get on with your life. Also stop trying to play the admins against each other. You going to lie to everyone else until you can find one that may buy your lies? Its not a mom said no and dad will say yes situation. Nothing to do with disrespect for admins or rules, I never had a disagreement with any of the admins(and pretty friendly to ladder players in general) or had a forced report. But i just find it impossible to beleive that not pressing continue after 10 mins is a ladder rule and if this didnt involve you losing face, i know CS would agree with me - other admins too. Because such a nonsense rule is uninforcable for a start. Now if someone doesnt press continue for 10 mins can i leave as they have auto conceeded? Because i know if anyone else ever done this, the admin on non-reporting duty would laugh. What makes the whole situation worse is CIV has a function that takes majority vote about about 15 mins. The reason i posted it in the forum, because its almost laughable, if you dont press continue you forfit the game. If this rule comes under good sportmenship, then LOOOOOOOOOOOOL doesnt this work 2 ways? Metallian and co. have exploited a loop hole, wait until longhorns on non-reporting duty. Well done guys gj. I know I'm in the right but tired of arguing But can i get some clarification on the rules, just so i know for next time - and as i said before not from longhorn please.
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Post by Tony on Sept 1, 2007 16:05:49 GMT -5
No im not calling anyone a liar, it was longer then 10 mins, but if there is a rule it must specify a time, i just said 10 because this is the most logical value. So how long are you allowed to not press continue for just so i know for next time?
And also GAME WILL AUTO CONTINUE if i dont press it for about 10 mins so how is this hostage? Do you know what the word means? They could have pressed continue or reloaded from the lobby hardley a hostage situation.
If i had known they were actually gonna get get the win i would have atleast seen how long i can defend for.
The piont is there is no rule saying you must press continue, well not that i know of. You just invented this nonsense rule, which is as i said above impossible to enforce, hence you lack common sense.
What rule was broken for the 4th time of asking? What did i do thats wrong? If you have to press continue after X-mins, then how long is X? Would be nice to know all the ladder rules, rather then suprise you have to press continue within X-mins or you conceede.
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Post by zzZhenon on Sept 1, 2007 18:23:49 GMT -5
It's under the rules tab on the myleague site.
The last sentence has to do with this situation.
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Post by Canucksoldier on Sept 1, 2007 19:13:27 GMT -5
Well I obviously was not present during this game. But I think the ladder rules are clear, players only have 10 min to return, if you give nthem a little longer that is fine. But 10min is the default rule. Implicit in this rule is that the game continues after the 10min expires, the rules do not have to state this, it is common sense.
Whether you chose to look for a sub or play with an AI is up to the two hosts or the majority of the players in a cton. Subs are not a rule however, so if that can not be agreed upon then the short team has to make a call on whether to concede or play with an AI, trying to call a scrap is not an option just because you lost a player. It sucks when this happens but that is the negative side of playing with people that might have issues during the game.
CS
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ot4e
Settler
Posts: 98
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Post by ot4e on Sept 2, 2007 5:45:08 GMT -5
Well I obviously was not present during this game. But I think the ladder rules are clear, players only have 10 min to return, if you give nthem a little longer that is fine. But 10min is the default rule. Implicit in this rule is that the game continues after the 10min expires, the rules do not have to state this, it is common sense. Whether you chose to look for a sub or play with an AI is up to the two hosts or the majority of the players in a cton. Subs are not a rule however, so if that can not be agreed upon then the short team has to make a call on whether to concede or play with an AI, trying to call a scrap is not an option just because you lost a player. It sucks when this happens but that is the negative side of playing with people that might have issues during the game. CS So rule is to play with AI? WTF? And if your shuffled ally drops he'd better be dead to warrior? Or how do you imagine AI in teamers? His side is doomed ... what's the blame of the other persons? Why do you punish them???
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Post by MMV on Sept 2, 2007 8:15:10 GMT -5
3. REJOIN WITHIN 10 MINUTES: When a player drops for the first time, the host (or another player, if host drops) will wait at the Diplomacy(vote) Screen for 10min, so as to not allow the dropped players’ civ to be taken over by the AI. At this time the host or a designated player will monitor the lobby via GS Arcade to see if the player is returning. Should the player not return within 10min the remaining players can vote whether to continue with an AI substitute (which would allow the player to rejoin the game later via "hot join"), to allow a human substitute, or to drop the civ from the game. If there is not a conclusive majority vote the host decides.
7. HOST AND PLAYERS MAY AGREE TO ALTERNATIVE DROP RULES: While the “1 alibi” rule is the default league policy, players may choose to discuss alternatives and may agree at the start of their league game on how the winner is determined and exactly what to do if the game crashes. The host and players may agree on a different policy rather than “one alibi,” as long as it is agreed to before the game begins, and all players have the choice to opt out of the game
8. NO CHANGING RULES ONCE GAME BEGINS: In all league matches, all conditions of play should be agreed on at the start of a match by all players. Once the game begins, no rules changes including victory conditions, time limits, or game restart conditions are permitted, unless unanimously agreed to by all players
9. UNCOMPLETEABLE GAMES: Sometimes due to connection, software, or human errors, a game cannot be finished. Players should reassemble in the game lobby, and either agree to report losses based on points held at time game ended (if there is a clear winner), or agree to a rematch, at a future time. To end such a game prematurely, referred to as "scrapping" a game, the vote must be either unanimous or nearly unanimous (all but one player agrees). Two or three player games cannot be scrapped without unanimous consent. Before scrapping a game, players should make multiple efforts to fix the problem including re-hosting the game, using alternate saves, etc.
15. GOOD SPORTSMANSHIP: The basic premise of the ladder is to facilitate players finding each other, who are devoted to Civilization IV, so they may compete in a sportsman-like manner. Our philosophy is play hard, but play fairly. It is NOT winning at any cost. Any player exploiting game deficiencies as determined by the Admin Team risk expulsion or severe penalties
TEAM PLAY RULES: 7 - A team can concede victory to their opponent(s) only if all team members who are still alive in the game unanimously agree
8 - In team games, the default “one alibi” rule is extended to apply to each and every member of the team and to be transferable among team members. Thus, a team with 4 players, for example, is allowed 4 penalty-free drops. In addition, hosts are encouraged to only assign drops when they are flagrant and unquestionable. If a host shows favoritism towards their own team when they apply the rules regarding drops, that will constitute sufficient grounds for Ladder Admins to nullify the game
Sorry for all the words - I didn't make them up, I just copied them for those that haven't ever read them or suffer from some kind of "rule-impairement."
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Post by MMV on Sept 2, 2007 8:25:52 GMT -5
To make it easier for those who don't want read all that (oh MY why wouldn't anyone NOT want to learn the rules.....) here's the short version.
3. Should the player not return within 10min the remaining players can vote whether to continue with an AI substitute (which would allow the player to rejoin the game later via "hot join"), to allow a human substitute, or to drop the civ from the game. If there is not a conclusive majority vote the host decides.
7. The host and players may agree on a different policy rather than “one alibi,” as long as it is agreed to before the game begins, and all players have the choice to opt out of the game
8. In all league matches, all conditions of play should be agreed on at the start of a match by all players. Once the game begins, no rules changes including victory conditions, time limits, or game restart conditions are permitted, unless unanimously agreed to by all players
9. To end such a game prematurely, referred to as "scrapping" a game, the vote must be either unanimous or nearly unanimous (all but one player agrees).
15. The basic premise of the ladder is to facilitate players finding each other, who are devoted to Civilization IV, so they may compete in a sportsman-like manner. It is NOT winning at any cost. Any player exploiting game deficiencies as determined by the Admin Team risk expulsion or severe penalties
TEAM PLAY RULES: 7 - A team can concede victory to their opponent(s) only if all team members who are still alive in the game unanimously agree
8 - If a host shows favoritism towards their own team when they apply the rules regarding drops, that will constitute sufficient grounds for Ladder Admins to nullify the game
Sorry, there is NO shorter version
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Post by MMV on Sept 2, 2007 8:41:05 GMT -5
oh, and one more which covers one team DEMANDING that the game continue with AI and "we will accept NO sub" -
2. If someone leaves a game (for whatever reason), the remaining players have the right to either continue playing the game, scrap the game, concede the game, or allow a substitute. A substitute should be of comparable skill. In a team game, the two captains have to agree that a substitute is fair
It's pretty clear, one "team" cannot DEMAND continue and one "team" cannot deny a sub, and one team cannot DICTATE that the other team play with AI. It's up to the captains to agree. Shuffle teams? Sorry, there should still be team captains exactly FOR this purpose (one team but with ONE VOICE) for EXACTLY all of the reasons posted here in this thread.
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Post by Ellestar on Nov 1, 2007 15:39:26 GMT -5
Actually, there are some meganoobs like [IL]Islandia who claim that the only fair substitute is AI and they'll not agree to any other. I wonder how fast they'll find that good players don't like to play with such meganoobs I bet he can barely beat AI on Noble so he thinks that "A substitute should be of comparable skill" (c) ladder rules means that AI is ok as a sub for a player Hey, how about you'll crawl away in your singleplayer and practice some more?
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Post by zzZhenon on Nov 1, 2007 22:41:26 GMT -5
[drunk]if it's a random shuffle game, then the "team captain" position should go to the person with highest rank on the team. By that rationale, one ret.ard on your team can't ruin the game for everyone unless he is the ret.ard with high rank.[/drunk]
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