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Post by Earl Harewood on Jul 20, 2007 1:17:59 GMT -5
Any member of this ladder who openly supports piracy in the lobby and other places are tarnishing the good name of the multiplayer community. I want to make this absolutely clear, it is my opinion and i'm sure the opinions of many in this great league that STEALING IS WRONG END OF STORY. If you enjoy the game, have the decency to pay for it because the makers deserve it. Worst case scenario of all this is that piracy can become so bad that making any more civ games or other games in general can become economically unviable. In the least, the quality of future games can be affected as budgets for their creation will be more restricted!!! DO YOU WANT THIS TO HAPPEN?
I believe that all members of the ladder should challenge these individuals and scorn them for their blatant disregard for the hard work of the good people at firaxis AND EVEN MEMBERS OF OUR OWN LEAGUE who were involved in the BTS project.
I do not wish for us to be assosciated with piracy! We are grateful for the work of firaxis because civ is a game that we all love and enjoy. if you truly are a fan you should take a stand against piracy within our league before we become assosciated with thieves, thus damaging our standing in the community, and more importantly, with firaxis.
I have come up against several people in the lobby who are saying that piracy is a good thing...... The logic behind such words truly escapes me, i would be upset if many more share this view.
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Post by theunadonkey on Jul 20, 2007 1:39:44 GMT -5
Things are rarely as black and white as u seem to think they are. Sure, people who abuse piracy should be scorned, but if something is only available to someone from a black market source, that person shouldn't be condemned for being intelligent enough to take advantage of it.
Basically, I don't think piracy is wrong unless there is a legitimate copy available. I have mine reserved, as do most of the people in gamespy lobby.
If you don't like piracy, then don't pirate. Just don't go thinking you're better than those who do.
and no one was openly supporting piracy until that devil patch killed everything.
XD LOL
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marr
Worker
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Post by marr on Jul 20, 2007 1:46:48 GMT -5
The artist who is was in an indie band plays the small bars, relies on piracy to get his records out.
The artist who wants to build his portfolio in a smalll game project relies on piracy to get his wrok out.
The movie who etc...
etc.
Its not that piracy is wrong, its only wrong for big production moves and games?
4800 games made in one year and 10 of those wind up on walmarts shelves? What happens to the other 4600 and how do I hear about them as a consumer that makes me want to go out and buy one? Is it only the big production, big budget, big pr games were not supposed to pirate?
Developers get paid regardless, artists get paid regardless, muscicians and actors etc.
The only copyrights that matter are the ones that have a big budget, the rest need the exposure?
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Post by Earl Harewood on Jul 20, 2007 1:49:25 GMT -5
This is no fake moral highground! This isnt a personal grievance. This is genuine worry that the multiplayer section of civ will largely be pushed to the wayside in future installations of the game because of our apparent affiliations. We need to protect our reputation.
If you download the game with full intention to pay for it, you're bending the rules but morally you are fine. Telling other people with less integrity how to get ahold of a pirated version for free, is not acceptable in my view.
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Post by Earl Harewood on Jul 20, 2007 1:52:21 GMT -5
@ Marr
In the gaming industry, you rely on the media, free demos and other promotional ideas in order to get your work out. If you relied on piracy you wouldn't get very far.
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marr
Worker
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Post by marr on Jul 20, 2007 1:59:20 GMT -5
Tell that to Adobe Earl.
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Post by 9iron9 on Jul 20, 2007 2:11:51 GMT -5
well as bts is aimed at single player people im sure they wont mind if the multi player people dload it as they dont really care about us.
remember if we dont exist we cant be doing anything wrong
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Post by Canucksoldier on Jul 20, 2007 3:36:41 GMT -5
The way small companies get there work out is Shareware not piracy....that's a weak excuse.
CS
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Post by theunadonkey on Jul 20, 2007 4:16:29 GMT -5
This is no fake moral highground! This isnt a personal grievance. This is genuine worry that the multiplayer section of civ will largely be pushed to the wayside in future installations of the game because of our apparent affiliations. We need to protect our reputation. If you download the game with full intention to pay for it, you're bending the rules but morally you are fine. Telling other people with less integrity how to get ahold of a pirated version for free, is not acceptable in my view. Meh, u have a point. I agree. Good thing most people can't figure it out anyway ;p
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Post by deviousdevil on Jul 20, 2007 9:45:19 GMT -5
well as bts is aimed at single player people im sure they wont mind if the multi player people dload it as they dont really care about us. remember if we dont exist we cant be doing anything wrong I think they won't mind you d/ling it as you are abit of a pauper.
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Post by Tony on Jul 20, 2007 10:59:04 GMT -5
you have to think about this logically.
1) People download the game
2) Firaxsis have less money for future civ development
3) They can no longer afford to waste money
4) They stop hiring F-P
win-win?
Everyone that reads this report to your nearest torrent site ;P
In all seriousness, i think for every MP person that downloads the game, 10 SPers do. Its alot easier to pirate the game SP as you dont need to patch it and worry about no-cd thingys. So maybe this post is on the wrong forum, its just you dont get to see them "talking about it"
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Arvcran
Worker
Tourney Director
Remember the purpose of CIV / BtS is enjoyment, entertainment, and hobby!
Posts: 181
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Post by Arvcran on Jul 20, 2007 11:09:44 GMT -5
well as bts is aimed at single player people im sure they wont mind if the multi player people dload it as they dont really care about us. remember if we dont exist we cant be doing anything wrong I had only played SP up until 6 months after playing CIV (4). To tell you the truth I was very impressed how they were able to tweak the turned based game into a smooth flowing multiplayer game. To say they don't care is simply not true.
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marr
Worker
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Post by marr on Jul 20, 2007 13:43:53 GMT -5
I don't encourage piracy. I will be buying bts, but as una says, if it isn't on my market...
I was just playing devils advocate.
Just some examples of how there might be some logic.
A finally thought to piracy would be thus;
The internet is a form of sharing and communication. One should never limit that sharing of information; albeit games, music, wisdom, thought, intellectual debate. but instead encourage it and leave it up to the user/reader to determine what choice they have in the use of that information.
I have the choice to dl bts torrent, it is my choice and I choose not to. Having that choice to make is not wrong, nor is even dling it, its what I do with it that qualifies the choices I make.
Having the information readily onhand via the internet is not something to discourage, torrents and piracy are not something to discourage, what should be discouraged is persecuting those who make a choice one way or the another.
Is piracy wrong? Last time I looked, the geneva convention didn't include every country on this earth. Copyrights include only which countries and those countries that it doesn't include, WTO doesn't include...? Is it wrong in those countries? Its okay to morally bend the rules if BTS is released in other countries but not in NA yet, so its justifiable to dl it until its released. Those countries where it isn't released,... Its okay to dl it there? Is that piracy?
When the copyright laws apply to the internet, when they include every user on the internet, being every country on this planet because just about every country is connected to the internet and those laws are fair and equal to all as related to every user, then call someone a pirate. Until then that label is moot and morally ambigous.
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Post by lporiginalg on Jul 20, 2007 13:45:50 GMT -5
All I know is that the hard work of civ pirates has cast a light into some of my darkest hours. When my gf took away my CD cause I was playing too much, it was the no-cd crack that kept me going. And now I find myself in a similar situation, because having just reinstalled the game after a long break all I want to do is go own some noobs in MP, but I can't because when I hit the lobby I am told I need to update with this new BTS patch 213 (or 216 or whatever it is) but I have direct2drive version of warlords and this patch won't install and they haven't posted the "patched patch" up on their website yet. Think about that for a sec. If I had pirated the game for free I would still be playing fine but because I bought it legally I am now sitting on my ass twiddling my thumbs and waiting for the direct2drive patch to come out....or my pirate torrent to finish downloading ;D
lp
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Post by Earl Harewood on Jul 20, 2007 13:55:14 GMT -5
In all seriousness, i think for every MP person that downloads the game, 10 SPers do. Its alot easier to pirate the game SP as you dont need to patch it and worry about no-cd thingys. So maybe this post is on the wrong forum, its just you dont get to see them "talking about it" I am quite aware of this, but giving up and encouraging piracy because everyone pirates anyway is just as evil as cracking and distributing the game illegally. Where the hell are your principles? Where the hell are your morals? The more we allow this continue in OUR community, the more we alienate ourselves from the rest of the decent civ community. I for one am not prepared to just allow this to happen.
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Post by lporiginalg on Jul 20, 2007 14:47:57 GMT -5
giving up and encouraging piracy because everyone pirates anyway is just as evil as cracking and distributing the game illegally. Where the hell are your principles? Where the hell are your morals? Earl you remind me of my ol pal Dusty Dragoon. It must be nice taking nutss that smell like roses I know you mean well but I think you are taking a real short-sighted view of the subject and overlooking some of the points that have been made. I fully agree with mar that allowing piracy of your digital product is really a form of investment. Consider this: Ever have a hard time getting a ladder game? ever wish the civ mp community was larger than it is? well the only thing we would achieve by having no piracy is losing most of those players cause if they can't get it for free they just won't play at all because it's not worth it to them. Just remember that the kid 'stealing' games of today can easily become the adult buying games of tommorow. If you don't believe that than here's a cold hard fact: I pirated civ I, II & III, but when civ IV came out, I bought it, because at this point in my life it's easier to drop 60 bucks then go through the hassle of mounting images, editing registries, cracking exes etc etc But unfortunately, as noted in my previous post, I still have to go back to the oldschool methods time and time again, cause trying to do things the legit way just ends up presenting a new batch of tech issues, at least with civ lp
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Post by mrgametheory on Jul 20, 2007 15:02:35 GMT -5
First off Tony is on to something, If firaxis makes less money they wont be able to afford paying FP to run the fantastic MP experience and instead they will have to go back to using the tuxedo chimp with a cigar who was only getting $3 an hour and did the exsact same quality of work minus being able to get everyone whos job matted over at fraxis coffee 5 minutes quicker. Personally I preferred the Chimp because it at least had a personality, so I support what Tony is saying. Second off It is what it is so stop being so naive. If Firaxis made an extra 10 million from Civ 4 they wouldn't really change the MP experience due to the fact that they can look at the lobby and see the 300 people a day who play MP on line and see for themselves that Civ 4 MP isn't worth the investment. I am personally in shock that they made it as far as Civ Revolutions. Civ revolutions will be the true test for MP. Third off As an advocate of karma I can tell you that people who save $29 by pirating the game will end up paying for it later on or maybe they paid for it before. Same goes in terms of positivity when it comes to firaxis. Fourth off Earl: Based on the empirical evidence I have gathered from reading half your post, reading your quote and seeing your EMO Tag, I can say with 97% accuracy that you are a newb in Civ 4 and a smarter than your average chode in RL, even thought I docked you down some intelligence points for being douche enough to bring up such a topic. Obviously stealing is wrong, but so is treating employees like nuts, and as long as firaxis treats its employees like nuts they deserve to be stolen from
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Post by MMV on Jul 20, 2007 16:02:54 GMT -5
I think "piracy" began LONG before there were free downloads from the internet once BtS was release in some places of the world first - but not others. I believe piracy began with all those ladder members who were NOT testers or QA's that passed on the beta version to the friends. Those that would both offer or take the beta testing version without being a tester or a QA are the same one's who would pirate. I put them all in the category of LOWER THAN WHALE-SHlT
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Post by toratoratora on Jul 20, 2007 16:26:27 GMT -5
hey Piracy will always exist its a fact people want the newest release before anyone else hell i watch die hard 4 last week in the comfort of my own home Great Film Btw However People who download Pirate software from the internet do so at their own risk i know of two people now whom dl the torrant and had to do a format and fresh install of everything well like i said before dont do it it has a virus but I guess they leaned the hard way
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Post by lporiginalg on Jul 20, 2007 16:27:09 GMT -5
oh well guess I'm whale nuts but I'm still gonna pwn you For people who do want to buy BTS steam is offering a 10% discount if you pre-order by july 24 and allows you to pre-load the game as well so it's ready to rock the moment it's officialy released. lp
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