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Post by willburn on Apr 24, 2007 0:55:58 GMT -5
I recently started playing the ladder again and I am shocked at what it has become. I will not name any names (this time) but after playing 4 team games I had to file 8 none reports and so far have only gotten 2 reports out of it, roughly around 40% of the people i played vs. And mostly EVERYONE reported a whole day after playing - when one are supposed to report straight after a match. And dont think this are only noobs who are not reporting, its people in the top 20 too.
Well to you none reporters out there - let me tell you I will hunt you down and I will not rest until you are either kicked out of the ladder or change your ways. Report straight after a match is played. And dont give me any crap and try and attack my charachter on this one, all I want is for the ladder to function properly.
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Post by MookieNJ on Apr 24, 2007 1:46:13 GMT -5
Just finished my first ladder game in a while a few hours ago, only got 2/4 of the reports I won ... unfortunately I'm not suprised by this .
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Post by Tony on Apr 24, 2007 4:34:15 GMT -5
when nothing happens for a while, bring on a new non-reporting thread, elistist thread or gamespy is broken thread.
Let me look into my crystal ball and predict the following posts in this thread.
First some people will come on saying somthing like "yeah this non-reporting stuff is really getting out of hand, i played X games last week and only got Y reports"
Then admin, either longhorn or CS, will come on and say something along the lines of "well if you file a non-report, we will deal with it. If you dont file and non-report we cant do anything".
Then someone will complian i filled X non reports Y months ago and nothing was done, so now i stopped filing them. This may be proceeded by, open ladder isnt working lets make it invite only.
etc etc etc.
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Post by willburn on Apr 24, 2007 5:51:48 GMT -5
And its wrong to bring up a problem that clearly is affecting the ladder ? You dont really care about the ladder at all do you ?? There is a big difference between just talking about something, and acting on something. The reason the ladder is out of hand is that people dont bother to file none reports when they should. For each lazy person it gets easier to cheat. Its that simple. You can do whatever you want Tony, I know I will try and do my part to keep this ladder the great civ4 mp place it is.
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Post by toratoratora on Apr 24, 2007 6:07:57 GMT -5
This happens alot but i cant really see anyway to fix the problem of people Playing another Teamer before reporting a loss from the previous Game perhaps the time to file a none report could be reduced from 24hours to 2 hours after a game is over 24 hours is a long time to get youre Rank back up before Reporting a Loss thats the real problem here! One usefull feature perhaps would be if the game displayed the Date and time when taking a screenshot perhaps then you had some way of proving the amount of games played since by the losing players! But like tony says IDK either
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Post by willburn on Apr 24, 2007 7:16:11 GMT -5
Bamtams the screenshot has a date it was created, if you right click it it will show time and date. Also you can set in civ4 to show what time it is (ofcourse it will be your local time) but its still better than nothing.
I agree 24 hours is a bit long as many uses it to make sure they dont loose rank towards you. (Ive had this happen to me a few times too.) But there has to be a golden balance, personally I write down every time someone is late and if I see they keep it up I know who im not gonna recommend into teamers. Oh and I did one report today that was a bit bad i only waited around 17 hours before the report. This was a mistake of me but meh.. (I dont do naming here but if the admins want to I can tell who it is, he doesnt deserve to get a none report vs him since it was my mistake to report too early.)
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Post by Levi on Apr 24, 2007 7:25:29 GMT -5
I believe there are many reasons why this is happening. - We are not an invitational ladder.
- We allow 24 hours to report a loss.
- As a group, we have become complacent regarding the filing of non-reports.
- The punishment for not reporting losses is mild.
- We do not punish winners that fail to file non-reports.
- Our admin team has not addressed the problem.
Notice that I did not say the admin team is failing to process non-reports. Whenever I file a non-report, I always get results. That may be because I always take screenshots of every game or it may be because of who I am. My point is, the admins do seem to be processing non-reports.
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Post by Canucksoldier on Apr 24, 2007 8:38:58 GMT -5
I believe there are many reasons why this is happening. - We are not an invitational ladder.
- We allow 24 hours to report a loss.
- As a group, we have become complacent regarding the filing of non-reports.
- The punishment for not reporting losses is mild.
- We do not punish winners that fail to file non-reports.
- Our admin team has not addressed the problem.
Notice that I did not say the admin team is failing to process non-reports. Whenever I file a non-report, I always get results. That may be because I always take screenshots of every game or it may be because of who I am. My point is, the admins do seem to be processing non-reports. 1. I really believe this has nothing to do with reporting or the attitudes of the current players, but it would kill off the recruitment of new players which is our life blood. 2. We could change this but I doubt lowering it to 12 hours would change much, and we really do not allow players this time, we just demand the other players wait this long before filing a report, the rules are clear that players must report right away. 3. This I agree with, if you file non-reports constantly people would either get with the program or find themselves eventually banned. 4. I believe if you look at our new penalties, we have responded to this issue, and I hope it "encourages" people to report right away as even having NR's filed on you has reprcusions now. 5. I don't see how we could enforce that rule, and rules that are not enforceable are useless. 6. Well perhaps not to your liking, but be do take this issue seriously and have made changes, the ladder players as a whole also have a responsibility to use the system in place and not tolerant players that do not report. The Admin team can't solve this issue alone. CS
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Post by MookieNJ on Apr 24, 2007 10:32:20 GMT -5
Players could start to self-police a little more.
If you just finish a game and you're starting another one, and someone who owes you a report from the last game joins, go make him or her report before the new game starts. Let's try to form some good habits!
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Post by Bonsai on Apr 24, 2007 15:49:51 GMT -5
The rules are fine IMO. It just requires participation and some occasional house keeping to make the ladder rules work.
In the past I never really paid attention to reports I was supposed to receive. After noticing that I missed a lot of reports for won games when I checked it at some point, I now consistently take screenshots in games. Every few days I go through the screenshots and the daily results to see if I am missing any reports. If there are some, I file non-reports and eventually get credit for it. It’s really easy to do and does not take a lot of time.
My hope is that if enough people do it, the ladder rules work, since people don't get the impression they get away with it. You can't expect that the admins will take care of everything. A system like this ladder only works if enough people actively participate beyond simply playing in games.
The challenge is to find the right balance between punishing people that purposely do not report games and “forgiving” people that forget to report for whatever reason. I bet the admins have a very good insight into which players are the “black sheeps” based on the number of complaints.
My perception overall though is that repeat offenders are not punished hard enough. (I might be wrong on this due to limited insight.) To give you an example, I filed three non-reports against a certain “top 20” player alone in one week recently and was about to file a fourth one when I caught him in the lobby and confronted him. After listening to a series of insults, I finally received the report. In cases like this, players should be put on probation at the very least unless they have a good explanation.
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Post by Death to ALL on Apr 24, 2007 15:58:26 GMT -5
Players could start to self-police a little more. If you just finish a game and you're starting another one, and someone who owes you a report from the last game joins, go make him or her report before the new game starts. Let's try to form some good habits! You could also take a screen shot of your buddy list showing them in a new game. As long as the first game was not a teamer and they died early. In that case they may not know yet that their team had lost.
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Post by Death to ALL on Apr 24, 2007 16:02:24 GMT -5
My perception overall though is that repeat offenders are not punished hard enough. (I might be wrong on this due to limited insight.) To give you an example, I filed three non-reports against a certain “top 20” player alone in one week recently and was about to file a fourth one when I caught him in the lobby and confronted him. After listening to a series of insult, I finally received the report. In cases like this, players should be put on probation at the very least unless they have a good explanation. We have addressed the issue of stiffer penalties. They are listed in the non-report thread. New NR penalties
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Post by cryptococcus on Apr 24, 2007 16:03:05 GMT -5
Let me tell you what is amusing about this thread. Two of the 5 people who responded to this thread either always non report or report a day late and the other I had to remind just yesterday The one who used to be a chronic non reporter has improved greatly lately though I must admit. ROFL, how hard is it to just report the damn game? I hate filing non reports, they are not that easy and my secretary won't do them for me
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Post by 9iron9 on May 1, 2007 7:47:21 GMT -5
has anyone tried earl grey tea... its disgusting
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Post by willburn on May 8, 2007 22:28:41 GMT -5
Actually to compleatly derail this train into offtopic land yes 9iron9 ive tasted earl grey tea. In fact its the only thing keeping me going after long study sessions. Lots and lots of earl grey tea.
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Post by ironclad on May 8, 2007 23:57:29 GMT -5
i drink earl gray all the time
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Post by Canucksoldier on May 9, 2007 1:22:15 GMT -5
Actually to compleatly derail this train into offtopic land yes 9iron9 ive tasted earl grey tea. In fact its the only thing keeping me going after long study sessions. Lots and lots of earl grey tea. I prefer a nice strong coffee myself CS
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Post by Magzi on May 9, 2007 1:55:22 GMT -5
Lipton Blackcurrant tea for me
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Post by cryptococcus on May 9, 2007 3:24:40 GMT -5
Just finished my first ladder game in a while a few hours ago, only got 2/4 of the reports I won ... unfortunately I'm not suprised by this . I bet you were playing RaY vs RaY against rokkit and metallian
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Post by Tony on May 9, 2007 4:26:11 GMT -5
Just finished my first ladder game in a while a few hours ago, only got 2/4 of the reports I won ... unfortunately I'm not suprised by this . I bet you were playing RaY vs RaY against rokkit and metallian Or whatever name they are going by today
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