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Post by alice on Dec 4, 2006 2:38:12 GMT -5
Seems that this game has become 2 dimensional, what used to be a robust and complex stratagy game has become a catapult mfg game, no longer are stacks best if they are diverseified, only unit that counts is the cata- in the 25+ ...
imo this game, the greatest game of chess, has been reduced to checkers...
I understand this will likely never be fixed. but i think that the balence of this game used to be better, but it has taken a turn for the worse/simpler
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Post by Necrominousss on Dec 4, 2006 4:05:27 GMT -5
It's not tuff to change and your not the first to ask for a change. Simply make catapults 25 percent more expensive or lower strength to 4 (I suggested and think 4 strength +50% city attack in the past and think a better balance, but who listens to ol necro). Another idea is to make it so that you can only build a certain number, say one 2 or 3 catas, for every forest tile you have within your cultural border that is in trade network (e.i on river or road-ed). I also am beginning to think catas need a check or lowered strength.
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Post by tommynt on Dec 4, 2006 7:58:04 GMT -5
game is designed for sp and sp needs overpowered units to beat ai on high lvl to then be proud to have beaten god or deity or whatever.
So I doubt that this issue ll ever be fixed, as less as most other problems, that Catas now dont take col damage from catas made the problem even worse i guess
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Post by Tony on Dec 4, 2006 9:04:41 GMT -5
The cats not taking collateral damge thing was a move i cant understand. I'm quite a logical man and can normally understand what others are thinking, even when i dont agree with it, but this i cant.
People were complining about cats being too powerful, so as a solution you make them more powerful?
First 50% of my army was catas now its more like 75%. The remaining 25% are just a handful of units, to counter any "single units" someone may throw at me, no matter what the attker will always get egg on his face, unless he has overwhelling power or resource advantage or big tech lead. Otherwise attacking is impossible, agiaisnt a mearly average player.
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Post by yilar on Dec 4, 2006 9:14:34 GMT -5
Catas are without a doubt the most imbalanced unit in the entire game. Taking cities is extremly hard due to these catapults. There is no way of protecting yourself from the collateral dmg.
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Post by tommynt on Dec 4, 2006 12:23:18 GMT -5
the way to avoid coleteral damage is to have catas only
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Post by cv431410 on Dec 4, 2006 12:27:35 GMT -5
the way to avoid collateral damage is to have catas only Such a cata-only stack can be killed easily; and therefore, is not a good standalone stack. Collateral damage units them-self need protection.
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Post by Canucksoldier on Dec 4, 2006 13:47:51 GMT -5
I agree that Cats strength should be lowered to 4 and that they should take collateral damage as well, and we could do this as a ladder mod if people on the ladder weren't so apposed to loading a mod for a good game of Civ.....
But I also think that cats and collateral damage are required as a game mechanism or we'll be back to the SoD of Civ3 and that was also a very boring strat as well. Balance is the key between collateral damage and super stacks and I'm sure we can find it, with a little work.
CS
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Post by churchill1 on Dec 4, 2006 16:08:11 GMT -5
the way to avoid coleteral damage is to have catas only Exactly and this makes (imho) taking cities a lot easier, of course you still need more power (usually, but sometimes actually you kind of don't ). If you manage to get CR siege units to a city, u kill, simple as that. Catapults are definitely wrong. Old news. Also I'm not sure this meassage will go to the appropriate people. Or will it?
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Post by Atomation on Dec 4, 2006 17:07:01 GMT -5
The real solution is to make some unit in a defensive stack defend catas first, and when they defend no collateral is taken to the stack....In this way a defender needs to determine how many catas are around and build the suitable counter, just like civ was meant to be.
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Post by MookieNJ on Dec 5, 2006 20:14:58 GMT -5
Between Catapults not receiving collateral damage and how overpowered Expansive civs are in the Ancient and Classical eras, Civ4 hasn't been too much fun lately.
With Renaissance and later Catapults aren't really so brutal as there are plenty of high value units available to counter them, and Expansive isn't so overpowered with free Granaries prebuilt in new cities.
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Post by Speaker on Dec 5, 2006 20:35:15 GMT -5
Also I'm not sure this meassage will go to the appropriate people. Or will it? The message has already delivered. A better question is will it be considered?
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Post by ironclad on Dec 5, 2006 22:30:36 GMT -5
easy solution
DO NOT PLAY INLAND SEA
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Post by ironclad on Dec 5, 2006 22:33:04 GMT -5
but yes cats are overpowered, -They should only have attack -they should have no defense, and can be captured by non siege units -but as well they should be able to bomb roads, so that you can immbolize a counter attack cat stack
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Post by MookieNJ on Dec 6, 2006 15:48:30 GMT -5
But I also think that cats and collateral damage are required as a game mechanism or we'll be back to the SoD of Civ3 and that was also a very boring strat as well. Unfortunately, people have finally caught on that a Catapult Stack of Doom works quite well in Civ4. This has stripped the early eras of skill, strategy, and fun, replacing them with alt builds of Catapults in every city.
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Post by willburn on Dec 6, 2006 16:34:24 GMT -5
Sadly a lot of people do catas only and to be honest in say renesance teamers they are a tool to weaken a stack. Not to be used for defence en masse when someone is invading you. (I cried a bit when a 80% defenece city where defended by 8 catapults vs 2 move knigts that would never even be catapulted)
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Post by churchill1 on Dec 6, 2006 17:17:26 GMT -5
Also I'm not sure this meassage will go to the appropriate people. Or will it? The message has already delivered. A better question is will it be considered? Can you tell us what the people who matter do say about catapults? How can they justify its design?
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Post by MookieNJ on Dec 6, 2006 19:15:54 GMT -5
Can you tell us what the people who matter do say about catapults? How can they justify its design? Not without breaking our NDA . But keep in mind that the battle is against single player people who just don't understand what it's like to play against a competent opponent.
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Post by notagoodname on Dec 6, 2006 19:23:37 GMT -5
The real solution is to make some unit in a defensive stack defend catas first, and when they defend no collateral is taken to the stack....In this way a defender needs to determine how many catas are around and build the suitable counter, just like civ was meant to be. If they do that I bet Firaxis will make cats the unit that defends first against cats, thus making them even more nessesary
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Post by churchill1 on Dec 6, 2006 19:25:59 GMT -5
Can you tell us what the people who matter do say about catapults? How can they justify its design? Not without breaking our NDA . But keep in mind that the battle is against single player people who just don't understand what it's like to play against a competent opponent. NDA? An American term?
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