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Post by cv431410 on Nov 12, 2006 20:14:12 GMT -5
I am new to the organization so while I am still fresh, please allow me to share me experience:
My ladder games usually last 30+30+30+ 5 minutes, here we go:
1. (30 minutes) Get into a game and wait;
2. (30 minutes) Captains select team members, usually with a comments like this "I do not know anyone";
3. (30 minutes) 3A (15 minutes). The game would not start, someone rejoin please; 3B (15 minutes). That does not work, reload game, everyone rejoin. Still won't start, take turn rejoin again. 3C (..) On third try, finally, the game starts.
5 (5 minutes) someone is killed by a warrior/archer.
Well ..., I did not get enough, so I try again; now
30 minute wait; 30 minute teaming; ...
You know the rest of story.
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[KC]Bopper
Worker
The Knight Who Says 'Giddy-Up!'
Posts: 136
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Post by [KC]Bopper on Nov 13, 2006 16:04:42 GMT -5
Hey CV, I think you might have struck a nerve... Not all ladder games are teamers, try the CTONs and FFAs more, they tend to launch quicker. Also, smaller teamers are usually quicker to the launch pad and play more smoothly. If you're still frustrated with these, play Ladder Bop OCC with me and I'll help improve your win ratio.
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Post by Bantams on Nov 13, 2006 17:42:01 GMT -5
yes cv you need to play more ctons/ffa/occ before the elite who mostly are noobs will let you join there teamers
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Post by cv431410 on Nov 15, 2006 12:44:31 GMT -5
Yes, yes, yes, I will do all that.
I love teamers too because it shows a lot:
1. 30 minutes waiting ==> ladder people are patient; 2. 30 minutes teaming ==> Ladder people are cooperative; 3. 30 minutes rejoin, re-hosting, rejoin, re-hosting, ... ==> Ladder people are persistent; 4. 5 minutes playing and the game is over ==> … I suppose that mean ladder people must be good.
How do I make your guys laugh? The first post supposes to be funny, not serious.
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Post by willburn on Nov 20, 2006 1:02:32 GMT -5
Lol its so true too What can I say - somehow thats how it has developed for teamers. You really hit the nail on the head there But yes most team players are persistant and will have a desire to finish a game and have fun. Actually the 30 min before game is sometimes full of fun smacktalk but usually its a utter waist of time. Heh.
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Post by cv431410 on Nov 29, 2006 19:28:06 GMT -5
My Ladder experience (5v5 Ren) -- Part II
As I get into my second months as ladder player, I begin to forget what the game used to look like before laddering.
Before I became a ladder player, producing artist for culture bomb is unheard of, which is also sometime call artist pollution. This is how 5x5 ren game “normally” (conventional way) played:
(1) After gunpowder, research Nationalism. (2) Pop up the first GS ASAP, it goes for University, so take it; (3) Before completing nationalism, usually 2nd GS comes out, also for University; hold it. (4) Research University (Very short because of the 1st GS); (5) If it is played correctly, the third GS will be out, again for university; hold it. (6) University completed; (7) Both GS turn into Liberalism; use it to get military Tradition; (8) Build cavalry; (9) Attack.
This “conventional way” obviously gets cavalry much, much faster than “ladder way”. I do not know exactly how many turns, but let me just say 10 turns faster. The culture problem can be compensated by theaters in front cities, library, non- polluting artist, bars, motels, yard sales, ;D….
While I am accepting Ladder way of culture bomb, but still want to see people justifying the two culture bombs by delaying cavalry by at least 10 turns.
It is difficult for me to justify it specially cavalry is the termination technology in Ladder game, which make calvalry far more important in Ladder games than conventional games.
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Post by MookieNJ on Nov 29, 2006 19:58:49 GMT -5
There are a lot of different ways to play a 5v5 Ren teamer, depending on your resources, civ set-up, and teammates.
The strategy you've described was very popular on the ladder last winter. However, when teams started to make Artists, attack early on with Knights and dominant culture, and defeat the teams rushing Scientists, strategies slowly changed and evolved.
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Post by cv431410 on Nov 29, 2006 21:42:02 GMT -5
There are a lot of different ways to play a 5v5 Ren teamer, depending on your resources, civ set-up, and teammates. The strategy you've described was very popular on the ladder last winter. However, when teams started to make Artists, attack early on with Knights and dominant culture, and defeat the teams rushing Scientists, strategies slowly changed and evolved. What happend if the culture rusher failed to take the city down ? Would that make the rusher double disadvantages: Failed rush (empty front cities); Facing cavalry. Rushing artists is not easier than rushing scientists.
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Post by MookieNJ on Nov 29, 2006 23:51:36 GMT -5
What happend if the culture rusher failed to take the city down ? Would that make the rusher double disadvantages: Failed rush (empty front cities); Facing cavalry. Rushing artists is not easier than rushing scientists. I'm not saying one way is right or one way is wrong. Also, your theory is flawed because Scientists do not go into Liberalism after Education, they go into Printing Press next. Anyways, if you'd still like to test your theory, get a team of 5 together and play your tech path and my team will play mine and we'll see who wins .
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Post by Speaker on Nov 29, 2006 23:52:33 GMT -5
I prefer the 10 merchants to Rifling path myself.
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Post by zzZhenon on Nov 30, 2006 0:47:01 GMT -5
lol I prefer to die to 4 slaved conquistadors on turn 12.
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Post by cv431410 on Nov 30, 2006 8:38:15 GMT -5
>> I'm not saying one way is right or one way is wrong. Also, your theory is flawed because Scientists do not go into Liberalism after Education, they go into Printing Press next. << Opps, We already openned too many research paths by renaissance time. Too bad. GS will go for liberalism if machinery is not available; otherwise, it will go for machinery, then Print Press. My memory is getting Rusty. >> Anyways, if you'd still like to test your theory, get a team of 5 together and play your tech path and my team will play mine and we'll see who wins << No, I will not be ready for Ladder game for a while. This is a style change. Ladder style is: Faster expansion More units Heavy Production Low tech (As results of the above) Low research Rate (As results of the above, Ex. library is optional) Prefer SE (Specialist Economy) than CE (Cottage Economy) Different Great Person Allocation Rush, Rush, Rush Heavy usage of hurry production (slavery, drafting, Universal sufferage, chopping, low tech units upgradding, 0% research, ...) ... This list is on and on. There is an adjutment from long term benefits to short term benefits. I am not yet fully adjusted. You sure know how to turn rooster into chicken.
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Post by Speaker on Nov 30, 2006 8:55:41 GMT -5
>> Ladder style is: Faster expansion More units Heavy Production Low tech (As results of the above) Low research Rate (As results of the above, Ex. library is optional) Prefer SE (Specialist Economy) than CE (Cottage Economy) Different Great Person Allocation Rush, Rush, Rush Heavy usage of hurry production (slavery, drafting, Universal sufferage, chopping, low tech units upgradding, 0% research, ...) ... This list is on and on. There is an adjutment from long term benefits to short term benefits. I am not yet fully adjusted. I'm not sure you should be generalizing the ladder after 1 month of playing. Several of your "conclusions" are flat out wrong! lol I prefer to die to 4 slaved conquistadors on turn 12. It's true, he does. I've seen it!
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Post by cv431410 on Nov 30, 2006 10:31:40 GMT -5
I prefer the 10 merchants to Rifling path myself. I am learning something new everyday. Beating horses is fun. Details please, when you have a chance.
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Post by islandia on Dec 2, 2006 2:11:30 GMT -5
Maybe you should try some of the other ladder games besides 5 v 5 ren. I have found that a lot of OCC games bring back more of the "flavor" of normal civ games within a reasonable amount of time.
And as far as your list of conclusions, I tend to think that while some may be accurate, the majority will just get you killed or way behind in tech at which point you are forced to go on the offensive and get catapulted to death as soon as you enter enemy culture.
Having played on this ladder at the beginning of civ 4 - taken a 6 month break and come back to play some more, I have not found it to be that hard to adjust to the differing play style. There are certainly a few different flavors of the month, but if you are good at civ, you will be able to pick up the nuances pretty quickly.
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Post by Ellestar on Dec 2, 2006 4:40:14 GMT -5
I'm not sure you should be generalizing the ladder after 1 month of playing. Several of your "conclusions" are flat out wrong! I think he's right with the exception that there is no "specialist economy" in ladder.
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Post by cv431410 on Dec 5, 2006 9:43:33 GMT -5
I think he's right with the exception that there is no "specialist economy" in ladder. Lol, I made up this one. What I mean is: the game lasts only 100 or so turns so everything are short term oriented. Specialist economy is up faster than cottage economy, A cottage need 20 turns to produce 3C (10==>1, 20==>2, 30==>3, 40==>4, non-financial); while a specialist produces 3C immediately. I guess No one buy this one. Of course, a large portion of research in SE is done by great person, so even 3C is much smaller than 8C or even 9C (financial) a cottage can potentially produce, 3C is compensated by great people.
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