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Post by mrgametheory on Sept 24, 2006 14:17:26 GMT -5
I overheard some people talking about this in the lobby and I felt that this needed to not only be brought up to the board, but needed to be added in the next patch.
Currently, when two players are pounding away at the numpad to get the instant first move, it is random, I believe that there is a better solution to this problem. There should be an internal counter on a unit that adds up all of the num pad presses and compares it to other numpad presses within 1 square and which ever unit gets the most numpad presses in a given turn gets the first move the following turn. This is a way to add skill to the equation because it will force players to micro manage and analyze what needs to be attacked sooner because if they dont their opponent who thought of the attack sooner will get the first move because they deserve it.
This needs to be pushed into the next patch along with wonder overflow. If two people get a wonder at the same time, they shouldn't just give it to a random player, but to the player who has the most hammer overflow. Its ridiculous to have luck in these two instances in the game, while inserting skill, will make the game better.
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Post by Canucksoldier on Sept 24, 2006 14:34:40 GMT -5
I generally agree that skill should be a factor instead of luck, and I certainly agree about using overflow for wonder ties, but I can't agree about key presses, taking this game more to a RTS style is not a solution, I think reflexes have no place in Civ4, that is not a "skill set" we want in this game IMHO. Sim moves is a neccesary evil in order to cut down on the time required to play a fun game. But IMO making battles/moves random within the same 1/4 sec was a good solution to a difficult compromise between taking the game back to a true turn based system and the old system of the top slot winning.
CS
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Post by Levi on Sept 24, 2006 14:37:32 GMT -5
This is far from a brilliant solution. In my opinion, whichever unit moved first in the previous turn should get to move first at the beginning of the next turn. simple.
As for determining who wins a wonder race, you really didn't post a brilliant solution, you didn't even suggest a possible solution. you just pointed out something we allready know.
I certainly wouldn't expect these things to be fixed in the next patch and I don't think your "add up the keypresses" would ever get on the list.
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Post by Tony on Sept 24, 2006 16:00:08 GMT -5
LOL crazy idea, what if you get one of those auto things joypads have, youll never lose a quick move race!
EDIT what effect will this have on lag when everyone is trying to fast finger each other and your tapping with like 60 secs still left on the timmer, if you dont have auto option your forearms will be HUGE after a week of civving ;D
EDIT 2: I dont think the outcome is random, some people are unbelivable fast!
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Post by tommynt on Sept 24, 2006 16:35:06 GMT -5
either gt is doing some decent joke or is very druk
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Post by Bantams on Sept 24, 2006 16:45:45 GMT -5
i need a new Keyboard any suggestions would be helpfull thanks
Banty ;D
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Post by Necrominousss on Sept 24, 2006 16:58:21 GMT -5
talk about moving unbelievable fast. There was one guy who beat my number pad quick move with an auto move, i guess, cause the scout moved 2 spaces instantly after turn timer, like he teleported there. Anyone know how this was accomplished.
BTW, just one time I would like to see MGT title one of his threads: Decent Idea or Maybe This Post Kinda Worth Reading or something less intense to match the post.
But I do very much like the idea of counting the number of times button is hit to see who goes first. I can just picture it now, no CIV players' keyboard would make it past the warranty before one of the buttons shattered during an action packed game.
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Post by notagoodname on Sept 24, 2006 17:18:29 GMT -5
In fact they should just give you a point for every numpad press added to your team score. That way whoever bashes the keyboard most wins the game.
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Post by swissy on Sept 24, 2006 17:25:47 GMT -5
talk about moving unbelievable fast. There was one guy who beat my number pad quick move with an auto move, i guess, cause the scout moved 2 spaces instantly after turn timer, like he teleported there. Anyone know how this was accomplished. Set the scout to EXPLORE. Its the same as setting a worker to AUTO to avoid capture at start of turn.
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Post by MookieNJ on Sept 24, 2006 17:36:23 GMT -5
talk about moving unbelievable fast. There was one guy who beat my number pad quick move with an auto move, i guess, cause the scout moved 2 spaces instantly after turn timer, like he teleported there. Anyone know how this was accomplished. The scout was on auto-explore. Units controlled by the AI move at the start of the turn.
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Post by MookieNJ on Sept 24, 2006 17:37:32 GMT -5
I think the person who smashes the numpad the least number of times should win the fast move every time. I have seen a few a-holes who spam the numpad so many times that they completely crash out of the game trying to fast move. Crap like that has absolutley no place in Civ4.
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Post by deyreepher on Sept 24, 2006 18:40:38 GMT -5
I generally agree that skill should be a factor instead of luck, and I certainly agree about using overflow for wonder ties, but I can't agree about key presses, taking this game more to a RTS style is not a solution, I think reflexes have no place in Civ4, that is not a "skill set" we want in this game IMHO. Sim moves is a neccesary evil in order to cut down on the time required to play a fun game. But IMO making battles/moves random within the same 1/4 sec was a good solution to a difficult compromise between taking the game back to a true turn based system and the old system of the top slot winning. CS As the ladder community has been shown, we're a minority. Bwahahaha, now you know what it's like. Enjoy the pain. Being a minority like myself, now you know what it's like to have your very good opinions discounted....if you still have your box, check out this line: "Greater Accessibility and Ease of Play - An easy-to-use interface will be immediately familiar to RTS and action game players, and newcomers to the series will be able to jump in and play." I like this game, but my heart still yearns for the dawning of Starcraft 2. Remember....the enemy is the Single Player Community
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Arvcran
Worker
Tourney Director
Remember the purpose of CIV / BtS is enjoyment, entertainment, and hobby!
Posts: 181
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Post by Arvcran on Sept 24, 2006 19:58:26 GMT -5
Hey folks,
With respect to the deciding of which side gets to move first would it not make sense to give priority to the unit that had not moved the previous turn?
Or perhaps the unit that was on look out duty would also be the 1st to be able to 'escape or react to units coming into it's main unit action of looking for on comers.
Or maybe even giving the defender - in this case a unit with same movement factor the initiative if it is not attacking.
Except if the unit trying to move 1st is outclassed by a 'faster' movement factor-wise unit. (I remember thinking how did that warrior escape my chariot? When I did not know how first moves were determined)
Horse units were used to slow the oncoming pursuers to allow the retreating army time to escape and still manage to escape them selves unless pursued by other horse units. Maybe this is too much a tactical issue rather than strategy though.
One could have exceptions by comparing range units like an archery unit vs a melee unit for example. This would negate any 'defender' initiative I mentioned.
These ideas wither brilliant or not are off the top of my head.
To respond to Dey ... I don't think the single player community is the enemy ... in fact I am quite impressed at how CIV is implemented in allowing for both SP and MP play. But then again I used to primarily play as SP with CIV II and CIV III. Are you suggesting CIV go real time rather than turn based? Like Age of Empires?
And to GT ... hey at least you came up with an interesting topic to discuss even though most don't agree with your solution ;-). I also am shivering at the notion of counting key pounding as viable strategical or tactical advantage. Although I'd rather see some ideas rather than none at all!
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Post by notagoodname on Sept 24, 2006 20:11:13 GMT -5
Yeah the button mashing idea isn't very good. Those who are good at masturbation will always win. Sucks for me since i don't know how to masturbate.
Been shagging women since i was 10 you see.
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Post by MMV on Sept 24, 2006 21:40:51 GMT -5
using the mouse is faster (argue if you wish, but 9-10 times I can move before a key-board smashing oponent).
note: it's good to see that notagoodname has been seeking professional help since such an early age, lol.
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Post by Atomation on Sept 25, 2006 2:44:10 GMT -5
What if the number of numpad key spams was tallied, but the person with the LEAST spams goes first in the event of a tie? All this is moot anyway - it's rarely ever a tie in my experience. It's always just a faster computer beats the slower computer. That's why some people can't automate workers to help them escape - they have slower computers so even the ai hasn't moved by the time someone else has killed. Levi's solution of whichever unit moved sooner in the previous turn goes first would be a better solution, if two players actually die have a tie, but again I really don't see this happening much. Perhaps civ needs a 1 second buffer time for all the people with slow computers to catch up, then use levi's solution at that point to determine who goes first. It seems like a very good way to go to me. In this way, players with units sentried would always be able to attack first if they wish (doesn't that make just a little bit of sense?) so much harder to just waltz in and steal a worker with a turbo fast computer and perhaps a forestry upgrade.
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Post by ironclad on Sept 26, 2006 19:03:24 GMT -5
i see most people do the 0 sec move trick, i cant do it well so i dont -0 Sec move Experts list- -In ranking order 1.Churchill 2.Jonneyboy 3.Knupp 4.Atomation 5.Tommy Alot of other MUD players as well
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Post by Atomation on Sept 27, 2006 16:20:07 GMT -5
Yeah right, knupp and churchill beat me 100% of every fast move..because they have a faster computer. I bet you have a faster computer too, you just aren't very fast .
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Post by tommynt on Sept 27, 2006 17:54:54 GMT -5
I dont even know a 0 sec trick - i usually just spam with my slow ass pc which isnt even able to handle fut after 20 turns
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Post by zzZhenon on Sept 27, 2006 20:29:41 GMT -5
Yeah right, knupp and churchill beat me 100% of every fast move..because they have a faster computer. I bet you have a faster computer too, you just aren't very fast . hehe I was going to mention churchill too, he's a master of the 0 second move, he even beats my automoves
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