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Post by thevindicator on Jul 12, 2006 17:22:20 GMT -5
correct me if i am wrong, but is the ladder a community, or an excuse to shout at people for making an occasioinal wrong move.
the last 2 games which i have hosted have both ended in my shock at the attitude of some elite members of this ladder. the first incident included a more expericed member ordering a less experienced member to leave the game which i hosted. why? bcos he wanted a fellow clanmate whom he assumed is better in the game instead. it eventually fell upon one of the great benefits to our ladder, kazache, haaving to leave the game to make space for this 'elite' player...
the second incident occured only a few hours ago. i was in the staging room for a new game, and there arnt many people in the lobby. i invite my buddy list, which includes one less experiecnced player. my buddy list joins, when another 'elite' game ends. all the experienced players and i pray for another 'boot the noob' incident to occur. luckily, the game begins unscathed. i then take it upon myself to kill the less experienced player, to which an 'elite' member of the group decides to leave the game, proclaiming 'F*** the noob, and F*** the host for letting him in!'. does this shock anyone else?
anyway, i go to the experienced player after the game, and it turns out that he only wants the best players in the world to play with him, and no new faces to turn up. at one point he said 'he doesnt know the units so he can go to hell'.
i havent been a ladder player for long, but i certainly dont believe that there is any excuse for this type of attitude towards fellow ladderites, and towards the hosts for wanting a bit of variety to the ladder.
if the future of ladder is to have 2 different leagues, one for elites (mainly teamers) and one for the less experienced players (mainly ctons), then its certainly not a future i want to be part of.
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Post by Elledge on Jul 12, 2006 17:29:51 GMT -5
Although I don't dig booting people after they join or bitching about it after the fact, I don't agree, and I'm pretty sure that the 349234928 other threads on this same topic have covered this.
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Post by MMV on Jul 12, 2006 17:35:10 GMT -5
If you're the host in games/staging areas when this occurs, exercise your "hosting power" and boot anyone who "demands" players, conditions, etc - it's your game - you can host, play, and play with the people YOU want to.
If the "demanding person" doesn't like it - tell him to go host his own game prior to booting him.
note: the more of your family heritage mentioned and body-part words a guilty "elitist" uses when you do this is only an indication of what you will NOT be missing once the game starts.
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Post by Elledge on Jul 12, 2006 17:36:04 GMT -5
Your mother was a nose and your father had two ears!
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Post by decepticon on Jul 12, 2006 17:59:42 GMT -5
Apparantly in the week i've been gone some things still haven't changed.
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Post by Tony on Jul 12, 2006 18:28:30 GMT -5
This thread is pretty unbelivable IMO
1) You had a noob on you side today and you conceeded after 10 turns, yes 10. The new guy wasnt even on the front and no one had even lost a city or was getting choked. You totally go back on half the stuff you say, because first i had the new guy on my side and you were freaking out because i said the teams were not fair, after like 15 secs i agreed to play. When you had the new guy you moaned for 5 mins then you conceeded after 10 turns. What is worst not letting new people play or letting them play in a 15 minute game. I know which would put me off the ladder more.
2) We have gone down this elitism road 100000000 times, you want to play with newer players then do so, if others dont that not your business. I personally play with anyone, but i can understand those that dont like wasting time in such games, because if you are not getting support from behind getting choked is boring as hell !! Something else thats boring is 5v4 in terms of units, sure it can be challenging but i know most people like to do the attacking.
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Post by tommynt on Jul 12, 2006 18:36:07 GMT -5
people should figure that Michal Jordon dont play Basketball with some baller guy from the getho - neither do Tiger Woods play Golf with some business guy playing his 1. holes.
Good players in a game and "noobs" in same game just dont work out - if I play a teamer and face some1 unexperienced he dies and he dies fast - that s no big talk but a fact. He ll learn nothing by getting overrun. I show that nearly everyday in 1-1 where i play with players of each skill - 1. ladder game or 1000th ladder game - most people hardly live longer then 30 turns then they r surounded and lost all workers usually - at least the new player ll get advice after game instead getting flamed.
People should learn to rate their own skillz - and try play mainly with people from same skill. There is a learning curve in civ4, some needs longer to climb and others get most stuff fast.
It s just wrong to ask 9 people who invent nuts load of time when trying to get a good game to bring the 1 guy a bit further in learening curve
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Post by notagoodname on Jul 12, 2006 18:41:55 GMT -5
General manners- If you start a passworded game and give out the password you have an obligation to play with those people you invite in. If someone offers to boot a newb to make room for you refuse. You should also never give out the password to a game without asking the host first. The host chooses who to let in and who not to.
Back when i was a newb there were games i was invited into and then booted out of once the required numbers were reached. Inviting newbs in when you have no intention of playing is wrong.
As for kazache being booted, he isn't the best player but he is good enough to know the basics and won't do anything completely stupid. He has also played more ladder games than anyone else and will also listen to advice.
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Post by lporiginalg on Jul 12, 2006 19:23:42 GMT -5
ya vindi well the thing is if u let one n00b in you have to get another for balance, I was in that second game mentioned and it pretty much was a bs game and from about the 5th turn I called what would happen and I was right.
And nota is sooo right about not giving out the pw when you're not host this is a big peeve of mine. I'm not the type of person who enjoys booting people but when I decide every once in a while to host a pw game for l33ts only i don't appreciate it when some n00b walks in.
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Post by laststand on Jul 12, 2006 23:03:50 GMT -5
What a load of crap lol. Who cares. Man I suck and I pretty much refuse to play teamers do to the above mentioned elitest values placed in this ladder. Let the elitest play with themselves, enjoy, have fun. I would much prefer to continue to play this game and enjoy it and let others (Noobs and non Noobs) join my games. I host a Laddder Ancient Cton at least once a day. I remain totally Noobish probably because of this but I still enjoy the game with those that are new to the ladder and I am willing to impart any info I can after words to the noobs that lost. You want this ladder to grow? Then put up with the noobs. If you wish to be the best on the ladder, prove it by teaching the noobs and helping them in their game. If you are just here to pat yourself on the back and say look at me I'm the best. So be it but by not passing on any of your skills or knowledge the ladder may become stagnent and then you have to ask yourself are you really the best. Dam It Enjoy the game lol
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Post by tamijo on Jul 13, 2006 3:20:55 GMT -5
;D Noobs & NNoobe (nearly noobs) & Semigood players ect. have started hosting and playing their own teamers resently, so i guess, and new people comming all the time, it will be more and more easy, even for the compleete noob to get familier with most gametypes fast. If the rather few "superplayers" want to host for 45 min or more (that happens !) to get their "perfect" teamer, well fine with me.
My conclution so far is not to join a teamer unless im sure at least half off the players is not experts. And as soon as the experts start pupping in, just leave.
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Post by Elledge on Jul 13, 2006 3:26:47 GMT -5
How can you possibly insult players who wait 45 minutes to get a teamer with people they like, and then talk about how you leave games whenever people you don't like join?
That seems beyond hypocritical to me.
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Post by tamijo on Jul 13, 2006 7:04:42 GMT -5
How can you possibly insult players who wait 45 minutes to get a teamer with people they like, and then talk about how you leave games whenever people you don't like join? That seems beyond hypocritical to me. I think you got me all wrong Elledge, im just saying its good for everyone that more types off game are hosted, and new players not only play CTON anc. I think its fine that someone wants to wait to get the game they want. I'we waited 1 hour to get a 2v2v2 with a buddy of mine (the game crashed when finaly launched ! ) I will play with anyone, and there are noone i dislike, i just leave sometimes, I think its ok to say, hey i'll leave to make room for XXX if that will get this game going cu another time. As long as the mood of staging is fine i will stay and play. I admit i have left a game once due to bad parring, but i wont do that again, im into the "game starts with picking" but i guess thats kinda off topic You forget its not the noobs disliking the pros, it kinda tends to work the other way around. I was in a killer Cton, a few days ago, with mostly very good players, the game froze, so it was decided to do a teamer. the teamer was PW'ed, and i did not even get the : "sorry mate, but will be hard to make a fair game with you ok?" just silence..........no answer............................nice....right Thats the kinda thing that makes me a littlebit ........ But as i tryed to saw before, I can infact understand, if i try hard enough.
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Post by Bantams on Jul 13, 2006 7:27:01 GMT -5
Kazache aint a noob so i suggest he was booted to stack the other team perhaps This seems quite unfair to me but while the Elites rule the teamers guess those that dont like how they play (or there attitude towards other team mates) should just host there own games I dont mind who i play with elites or noobs or semi noobs like me after all its only a Bloody Game
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Post by Tony on Jul 13, 2006 7:36:23 GMT -5
OMG he wasnt booted, somsone in the game wanted his friend in the game so his guy started asking if anyone want to leave, eventually, i assume because the game was taking so long kaza left. This opening post by vindi is unbelievablly misleading! I agree with NAGN inviting a new guy and booting when somsone better is avalible is totally wrong!! I dont think anyone disagrees with this. But as he says who the host invites is up 2 him, trying to force people to play together is even worst, new guys get abuse and experianced guys get high blood pressure
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Post by Avogadro on Jul 13, 2006 12:14:14 GMT -5
This is a very valid point. To give out a password, have a player hang out for a whiel while game forms then to invite him to leave is insulting and frankly shows little civility. Yes a player can choose to play with whom ever he/she wishes. But point is this player was invited then asked to leave. Not cool.
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Post by ironclad on Jul 13, 2006 12:20:02 GMT -5
vindicator if ur the host... i dont c the problem... its ur game set the example. aka rokkit
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Post by civerdan on Jul 13, 2006 14:22:27 GMT -5
I think the issue is the balancing act between allowing new players to join in to learn how to become better vs having a game thats once sided and ends very early due to inexperienced play by the new player. When you have a player who builds new cities in front toward India and guards them with one longbow when he is being attacked by knights or continues to build Sistene by hand even after losing a city simply because "it was in my que" games end rather quickly.
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Post by Avogadro on Jul 13, 2006 18:35:37 GMT -5
not sayign it's balanced. saying bad form to invite someone then ask them to leave
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Post by Necrominousss on Jul 14, 2006 3:15:04 GMT -5
Theres nothing wrong with having some minimum requirement for teamers That not elitist. It's just common sense. Many take it too far with the I don't play with anyone I don't know attitude.
I would say a 300 or 400 games played with a win percentage above 55 should allow a player to receive an invite. Said player should have a basic working knowledge of the game with states like that. And also shows this player will probably be around in the future playing and improving.
Inviting then booting for better player is reprehensible IMO.
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