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Post by rupman on Jul 25, 2006 10:48:58 GMT -5
Don't get me wrong I like great people. I just think the names for them are wrong and I think its dumb that you can pretty much only get a prophet early.
Imhotep was the guy who designed the Pyramids yet you either need the Pyramids to get him or a forge. Kinda lame. Moses is the first Great Prophet yet where are Abraham and Noah? Neither are in the game and Abraham is wildly considered the first prophet in the Judao-Christian-Islamic tradition. Jesus Christ and Muhammad Ali my be nice adds to the Prophet list as well, considering one founded Christianity and the other Islam.
While I'm here I think it's dumb that the Pyramids where built IRL around 2400 BC but it's damn near impossible to get them by that date in the game. Again Imhotep should be there to complete them but alas you can't get an engineer that early. Lamness.
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Post by Gogf on Jul 25, 2006 16:39:56 GMT -5
Jesus Christ and Muhammad Ali my be nice adds to the Prophet list as well, considering one founded Christianity and the other Islam. Um... are you sure about that?
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Post by Elledge on Jul 25, 2006 17:25:27 GMT -5
Priceless.
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Post by decepticon on Jul 25, 2006 19:12:36 GMT -5
I thought mohammad ali punched people for a living not saved them
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Post by MookieNJ on Jul 26, 2006 2:04:24 GMT -5
Jesus Christ and Muhammad Ali my be nice adds to the Prophet list as well, considering one founded Christianity and the other Islam. Um... are you sure about that? Quote of the year!
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Post by MookieNJ on Jul 26, 2006 2:06:41 GMT -5
Although, to reply to your post, the Great People are just part of the whole Civilization experience. You control history and the outcome of the game. It reflects history, but doesn't necessarily mirror it depending on your choices and those of your opponents. Come on, George Washington is the leader of the Americans at the start of the game and America doesn't even exist yet ... it's just a game .
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Post by tamijo on Jul 26, 2006 4:47:22 GMT -5
how about sitting bull and crazy horse, replacing Lincoln & Washington; looking forward to having Hitler or Stalin become my warhero
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Post by rupman on Jul 26, 2006 8:52:40 GMT -5
Oops, haha I put Ali in there. That's what I get for not proof reading my post. Oh well. Yeah I meant Muhammad the Prophet.
As for America I really don't think the U.S. should be in the game at all. The U.S. really spawned from England and wasn't a nation till a little over 225 years ago. I see it as little more than an ill fated attempt to fullfil some patriotic notions of both the Game's producers and potential buyers. In simpler terms its nothing more than a marketing tool to appeal to the game's major market in the U.S.
Um considering when you look into a mirror your opposite is called your reflection and "reflection" and "mirror" can easily be considered synonyms, would you care to rephrase?
Also you should in theory at least be able, if you so choose, be able to mirror history. This game at least makes an attempt for us to do it, other wise it wouldn't have real places, real names and quasi-realistic maps.
I know this is really knit-picking on my part, but this is really due to me being a history major in college. I want a great sense of historical accuracy. Of course I'm not saying the game should mirror history exactly but certain things should be possible by the date they actually occured in history. I.E. Imhotep being born rather early, as well as Homer. Homer is believed to have lived around roughly 700 B.C. Meanwhile the Greeks did not have a defined caste system. They also produced the Colussus, the Oracle, the Pathenon as well as conquering much of the known world under Alexander. Yet I see doing all of these things highly difficult in a regular single player game by the dates they occured IRL. I'm asking for these things to neccessarily happen by said dates in a single player game. All I'm asking is for the possiblity of them happening.
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Post by MookieNJ on Jul 26, 2006 11:30:19 GMT -5
In the end, you're really going to love Warlords. The Great People names are randomized throughout the game -- Homer is no longer necessarily the first GA and Imhotep is no longer necessarily the first GE .
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Post by Elledge on Jul 26, 2006 11:43:09 GMT -5
Oh, that explains it - last night I was playing the Alexander campaign and like twenty turns in, in like 900 BC, "Alexander Graham Bell was born in $SOME_PERSIAN_CITY!" I was all
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Post by knupp on Jul 26, 2006 13:04:13 GMT -5
USA shouldn't be in game? I guess they haven't had any influence in the world either.
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Post by rupman on Jul 26, 2006 14:04:58 GMT -5
I really think great people names should be civ specific. I mean they cared enough to give each unit language responses in their native language when you click on them, why not have Great People that only appear for certain civs like they did in Civ 3.
In last 200 years the U.S. has had influence, but compared to Civs like China, Egypt, Persia, Greece or Rome, the amount of influence we've had is minimal. 200 years of influence is hardly comparable to 3000-6000 years of influence. 2000 years later people still use Greek and Latin words or dirivatives of Greek and Latin words. Everytime you take drive or a walk you're on a Roman invention. Both concrete and asphalt were developed by the Romans. Our entire system of Government is based off of Greek, Roman and English traditions. Hell the name of this place is called the forum. I wonder where that word came from. I haven't even touched oh the others yet but I think you get my point.
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Post by knupp on Jul 27, 2006 0:43:53 GMT -5
Yeah, I suppose you are right. But America has had major influence in the world in the last 200 years. I think it should be included in the game but not going to argue about it. I've been in to many "Should America be in Civ" argument threads in C4F.
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Post by Elledge on Jul 27, 2006 6:25:29 GMT -5
Sure, but compared to civs like the Incas, Aztecs, Japan, and Mali, we've had plenty of influence.
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Post by rupman on Jul 27, 2006 9:24:24 GMT -5
I completely disagree with you Elledge.
The Inca's and Aztec's had widespread influence in the America's pre-Age of Discovery for hundred's of years. The main reason they were so easily conqured by their European counterparts if that 80% of the Native American population was decesmated by European diseases such as small pox. Their immune systems could simply not handle the huge influx of disease that the European explorers brought with them. Neither party had any true understanding of what was causing the massive death rate.
Japan has been inhabited as an island for 1000's of years and really became what we would call a civilization about 1000 years ago although it was not entirely cohesive. The Mongols tried to invade Japan twice in 1274 and 1281. Both of course failed and greatly slowed the Mongol expansion as a whole. Japanese armor and weapons during the feudal period between the 14th and mid 16th century were far superior to anything their European counter parts produced. Further, when gunpowder was introduced by the Portuguese in the 16th century the Japanese quickly developed superior tactics and formations that would have baffled most generals in Europe until the time of Napoleon. It was not until the establishment of the Tokugawa Shogunate in the early 17th century, that the use of gunpowder weapons was banned.
As for Mali, although they are a hardly worth mentioning as a nation today, they were at one point the richest nation in the world supplying more than half the worlds supply of gold. I myself was originally skeptical when I saw Mali in place of where the Zulu may have been. I will however let this one slide given the circumstances.
The reasons I don't think the U.S. should necessarily be on the list is that in the whole scope of world history the U.S. is a footnote at this point. I also see the U.S. as an offshoot of English Civilization. Although at this point there is an increasing amount of Spanish cultural influx. Although now we are the most powerful and influential civ in the world we have only worn the Crown for about 50 years. I simply think from a macro-historical perspective that is minuscule.
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Post by Elledge on Jul 27, 2006 10:08:53 GMT -5
I completely disagree with you Elledge. The Inca's and Aztec's had widespread influence in the America's pre-Age of Discovery for hundred's of years. The main reason they were so easily conqured by their European counterparts if that 80% of the Native American population was decesmated by European diseases such as small pox. Their immune systems could simply not handle the huge influx of disease that the European explorers brought with them. Neither party had any true understanding of what was causing the massive death rate. Japan has been inhabited as an island for 1000's of years and really became what we would call a civilization about 1000 years ago although it was not entirely cohesive. The Mongols tried to invade Japan twice in 1274 and 1281. Both of course failed and greatly slowed the Mongol expansion as a whole. Japanese armor and weapons during the feudal period between the 14th and mid 16th century were far superior to anything their European counter parts produced. Further, when gunpowder was introduced by the Portuguese in the 16th century the Japanese quickly developed superior tactics and formations that would have baffled most generals in Europe until the time of Napoleon. It was not until the establishment of the Tokugawa Shogunate in the early 17th century, that the use of gunpowder weapons was banned. To be fair, I don't know jack about Asian history, so I shouldn't have even mentioned Japan. Regarding the Incans and Aztecs, the question isn't "would they have contributed to our history if they didn't all fall down of disease", the question is "did they contribute to our history." Mostly, the answer is "not much", unless you count historical artifacts. And yes, disease is a big reason for the "not much."
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Post by booshwarrior on Jul 27, 2006 11:15:44 GMT -5
my favorite civ isnt in the expansion either. i know they've only a population of 4 and have a talking hoover but the teletubbies have influenced millions of children worldwide. also fragel rock although there population is higher i would say were the greatest technical civilization. yeah they had running water and a nice cave but the tv in the stomach technology of the tubbies is light years away from the fragels. now if ur talking the most influential civ it has to be the transformers. in a war today if a truck turned into a lfying robot with a laser gun not even all the "nukes" in iraq could stop it. all in all im just saying that i know bugger all about history and have wasted 2 mins of your time for u reading this. have a ncie day. ;D
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Post by rupman on Jul 27, 2006 11:16:16 GMT -5
^^ OK fair enough. I guess I'm willing to let them slide because they developed on their own into fairly advanced societies. Where as the U.S. as already stated is an off shoot of English civilization. I mean why not put Canada, Brazil and Argentina in there as well? (Yes I realize the U.S. as a whole has had more influence internationally over the last 100 years than those 3.)
^ Oh have you seen the previews for the new Transformers movie coming out? Ah Childhood Nostalgia.
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Post by booshwarrior on Jul 27, 2006 11:23:33 GMT -5
if you think about you could create a childrens version of civ. you could have many different civs from childhood. eg disneyland, fragel rock, tubbyland, transformer world watever it is called. imagine this.
" your mickeymouse is under attack from a transformer"
if u were mickey mouse you'd absolutly crap yourself, that is assuming mickey mouse is disneylands special unit.
microsoft could be classed as a civilization. special unit bill gates. skill, along woth his crappy haircut he infiltrates as a spy and changes your economies computers to windows xp and slows down your economy by 10%.
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Post by deyreepher on Jul 27, 2006 12:53:32 GMT -5
I like chocolate, tomatoes, and potatoes. Potatoes, perhaps one of the most versataile foods out there. Corn....let's not forget corn. Now I'm just hungry.
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