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Post by Sidhe on Apr 1, 2006 8:33:37 GMT -5
I was visiting a web site to find a no cd crack for a game I have that I have lost the CD for and I found a CIV trainer, does anyone know whether their are trainers for MP and if so do they work, this is scary that there is already a trainer out fro CIV, what's next cheat central.com. Can someone allay my fears over whether these are SP cheats and trainers or whether they might also work on MP.
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Post by Sidhe on Apr 1, 2006 16:46:00 GMT -5
hmmm interesting I guess not, beware of trainers and cheats. thanks for the response or lack of it, silence speaks volumes.
Be vigilant I guess, unless you want CIV to become the same as C3c.
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Post by tommynt on Apr 1, 2006 17:36:57 GMT -5
hm civ3 was very cheatfree (at least i did good without cheating - so cheats must have been pritty sucky if there were some) and untill now i have only 1 suspect in civ4 aswell
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Post by Sidhe on Apr 1, 2006 17:58:22 GMT -5
Actually talking about C3c now, you can actually cheat now without it affecting the save, essentialy the game is cheat central for those who want to play the lame game.To spot if said cheaters use these trainers well, i.e they cheat once but it's enough to kill someone, It's a game riddled with the ability to cheat, and so hard to tell once in the entire game, say press a key to get themselves +10 gold, it's immaculate cheating now, you can increase city size by 1 with a key press that will not be recorded in a save, the cheats have worked around the lack of security in C3c; CIV I'm hoping is different, but the cheat allegations particularly in future are unbelievable on C3c, you just see it when you play, players cutting out there modem to replay a move, players doing two, sometimes three or four moves even though they should have one. It's rare but it happens too often to give the C3c game any credence any more(of course the admins will tell you they have it well in hand but they don't and they know it) Cheaters will be condoned by the admins because they can't spot them. I've stopped playing it because some of the players involved are long standing members of the community that can't be found guilty, suffice to say they are, and they are cheating, it's just no one can spot it now.
I'm trying to get opinions from those on the inside that this will not happen again. Thanks anyway Tommynt I'm sure your right, but this sort of free for all trainer thing I found on line really scared me, and the cheats were terribly easy to use, I'm hoping my fear is misplaced, I don't want to see this game go the way of C3c, in that you are forgiven simply because no one can see your blatant cheating, even thoug you watch it happening in game, and you despair, it's sickening in C3c, but do they listen? Will they care, of course not, they are burying their heads in the sand and hoping honour will promote more honour. It does but in a small minority honour is meanignless they are weak pointless and a waste of space, but they do exist.
Of course I will be told that this never exsisted in the first place and that I'm making it up, but I've seen too many games and too many arseholes to care any more. They are cheating you and they no damn well how easy it is. Wake up and smell the coffee.
My point is is CIV going to be the same, do we have to put up with trite assurances of lack of cheating or not?
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Post by Canucksoldier on Apr 2, 2006 0:32:41 GMT -5
I have not found a trainer yet that works in MP Sidhe. Those ones you have found work fine in SP, although they are still rather limited. They will OOS games in MP. The only real problem right now is that modified assets only cause a warning for the joining player, this will end when the patch comes out, when all players will know when someone joins with modified assests.
CS
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Post by Sidhe on Apr 2, 2006 10:54:57 GMT -5
Thanks for the reassurance; I think I'm fairly paranoid about cheats and trainers having seen them a few times before, probably less than I'd imagined but more than I liked in C3c, ptw was even worse. I hope that the serial r.etards who write trainers are kept out of the CIV MP area permanently( I was pleased to see that security was given such a high priority with CIV) I despise these people, they ruin an honourable past time with there cheats and "trainer modes" those who use them are worthy of contempt those who write them are beneath contempt. Single player fine, MP take your lame arse off and go ruin someone elses game. I'm not naive neough to think there wont be cheats creeping in at some point I'm just gald for now that the Admins aren't having to deal with these r.etards yet.
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Post by yilar on Apr 2, 2006 11:00:40 GMT -5
The only workable trainer i can think of is a maphack, where you can see the entire map. I remember those from Starcraft. You could never surprise you're enemy. He always knew where you're army was and he would be there waiting for you with his entire army.
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Post by Avogadro on Apr 2, 2006 11:05:11 GMT -5
I also knew of remove "fog of war" trainor in c3c. In fact I knew many people using them to help clan mates practice city placements etc. This being said you cold not see units only map and those that I knew possessed these trainors were honest and would never use them in league play.
Other trainor, we all know the start in republic with 10,000 gold ones.
This being said I wouldn't worry too much as any serious player would not use a trainor. It would just be a matter of time before they are caught and then their reputation is ruined overnight.
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Post by Sidhe on Apr 2, 2006 11:13:45 GMT -5
Those are obvious ones that appear in the save, the less obvious ones Allow hotkey increases of gold, culture etc(just about everything that has a point value in game could be increased, shields, tech beakers you name it you could raise them by small amounts, these ones are pretty much undetectable, and thus are much more effective(the "best" cheats can ruin you without you ever suspecting a thing. The only way you know someone has used them is when there stupid enough to have say 10 mech inf by turn 20 on you, or border expansion happens before the player could possibly of had time to build say a temple. These are the sort of trainers that I'm worried about, the reveal map and 10,000 gold ones are just so blatant it's scary, in ptw with the advent of monarchy the power graph would spike ridiculously so you could even see it post game. Also there were invulnerability cheats as well in C3c and I saw signs of toughness cheats where units were somewhat harder to kill than they should of been, but that particular one, was in ptw not C3c, in one game I played in ptw I was the only player in the game who wasn't using the gold trainer so I quit in disgust, hilarious. Every one had 400+ more score than me by turn 60 it was stupid.
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Post by Sidhe on Apr 2, 2006 11:32:04 GMT -5
This I'm told is caused by people who installed 1.52 straight over the top of 1.00 instead of installing 1.19 first, or it's caused by slight corruptions in the download. Either way I've yet to see anyone with that message actually show any signs of cheating in game and trust me they were scrutinised thoroughly; one of my clan buddies always has that message when he joins, when we're playing clan games the question of his cheating never comes up. I've heard all but the subtlest of cheats tend to cause OOS's as well, i.e any change to the combat system causes an automatic OOS, where as trainers where you could see the result of combat before you attacked probably would not or the classic de-fog of war type trainers. I do rememeber inviting the last person who could program cheats into the beta tester thing, seemed like a wise move, set a thief to catch a thief, not that he was a thief but he showed how you could program all sorts of mods into the game bypassing security measures, or just making them subtle enough to avoid them. Anyway I'm breathing a sigh of relief that as of yet my loser detector has not been set off
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Settler
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Post by arma on Apr 2, 2006 13:44:34 GMT -5
There are trainers available for every single game that has like more than 5 players online. I dun know why this would surprise you. As long as people don't post them publicly and spam links in the lobby (as happened with trainers for final patch 1.0c for Age of Kings xpac for example), they dun ever seem to be a problem to me. It has been my experience that 99% of the lamers who want to use them don't have the skills to beat the goods even with cheating, at least not without getting caught.
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Post by Canucksoldier on Apr 2, 2006 14:43:29 GMT -5
Ok thanks CS, but I have a question about a couple of people that I have played with. Won't post their names because I am sure they are speaking the truth that it has something to do with their setup and that it is not a cheat. What happens is these particular people host a game, and then when you join their game a warning goes up just before you get into the staging room, that they are playing with a different version. Is this another glitch? If so it is really unfair to these people as it kinda infers that they are playing with a trainer. Is there a way they can rememdy this? DustyDragoon I would be very suspicous. Yes it could be that they have a pirate version or have just installed a mod that altered a file or somehow installed the game differently than others. There is a known problem with CRC checks with different OS's that report files in different orders. That will be fixed in the patch. If you have never seen anything odd in there games then I'd trust them, and if a person/cheater really had modified files to help them cheat they probably wouldn't host in the first place CS
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Post by Sidhe on Apr 2, 2006 15:01:37 GMT -5
There are trainers available for every single game that has like more than 5 players online. I dun know why this would surprise you. As long as people don't post them publicly and spam links in the lobby (as happened with trainers for final patch 1.0c for Age of Kings xpac for example), they dun ever seem to be a problem to me. It has been my experience that 99% of the lamers who want to use them don't have the skills to beat the goods even with cheating, at least not without getting caught. The surprise was not that they had done this, we expect it to happen sooner or later, the surprise is that they may have done it so soon. I have yet to see any signs of coded cheating, I've seen players try to change the difficulty level before launch, and I have suspected that some players have used exploits, usually unknowingly. Bear in mind though using an exploit before it is public accidently is not cheating, using it after it is public knowledge is cheating and you may well find yourself kicked off the ladder for this , as I understand the rules on cheating. Canuck Sodlier, this does happen if you bypassed the 1.19 patch and installed the 1.52 over 1.00, I guess that what your refering to with the fix is a side issue, however if it isn't the patch thing i mentioned then it must be the other issue, this as far as we understand is the only difference between player A who had no such message 1.00, but then had the message 1.52, I know of one or two players who have this message who I would trust implicitly to never use cheats, certainly not against there own clan mates, why would they? They are using the original DVD purchased version as well. However I think the sensible reaction is to reserve judgement on a person who has this message appear, if you wish to boot the from your game then fine that is your prerogative as a host, and it is your prerogative to leave game set up at any time if you suspect the host, that said if you know the player and know them well, i.e you've played with them alot, let it slide, if you suspect the above conditions may be the reason for the message. I don't think anyone wants to encourage piracy against Firaxis, so feel free to use a judgement call is my recomendation.
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Post by Elledge on Apr 3, 2006 1:40:50 GMT -5
(Firstly, for the record, I have a pirated copy of civ4 [sorry!] and I've had no problems with patching or "incorrect version" errors when hosting or joining. Generally I would find it very implausible that having a pirated version would make any difference at all; it's only a matter of bypassing DVD copy protection and burning a disc image. The game should be 100% bit-for-bit identical.)
That said, whenever I (rarely) get an "incorrect version" message when I join a game, the host generally says that it's a bug with foreign-language versions of civ, which makes some sense, and everyone says that same thing, so I figured it was probably accurate. Is that plausible?
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Post by Ellestar on Apr 3, 2006 3:36:56 GMT -5
I have not found a trainer yet that works in MP Sidhe. Those ones you have found work fine in SP, although they are still rather limited. They will OOS games in MP. The only real problem right now is that modified assets only cause a warning for the joining player, this will end when the patch comes out, when all players will know when someone joins with modified assests. CS There will be exactly the same warning if someone installed Civ 4 on FAT32 partition because of a bug in Civ 4 (Civ 4 doesn't sort a list of files that should be checked, NTFS returns a sorted list but FAT32 returns an unsorted list). But it should be fixed in the next patch (how many times we heard it already huh?). I made a 2 Gb NTFS partition solely for Civ 4 because of that bug, all my other partitions are FAT 32. This I'm told is caused by people who installed 1.52 straight over the top of 1.00 instead of installing 1.19 first, or it's caused by slight corruptions in the download. No, IIRC it's because 1.19 patch unpacks one of the data files and packs it to 5 smaller files (it was made so to fix just another Civ 4 bug, i don't remember which). 1.52 doesn't do it. So, game works in either case and content is the same but file check gives different checksum and same warning. That said, whenever I (rarely) get an "incorrect version" message when I join a game, the host generally says that it's a bug with foreign-language versions of civ, which makes some sense, and everyone says that same thing, so I figured it was probably accurate. Is that plausible? AFAIK localization files aren't checked so they're wrong.
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Post by Canucksoldier on Apr 3, 2006 20:49:50 GMT -5
I have not found a trainer yet that works in MP Sidhe. Those ones you have found work fine in SP, although they are still rather limited. They will OOS games in MP. The only real problem right now is that modified assets only cause a warning for the joining player, this will end when the patch comes out, when all players will know when someone joins with modified assests. CS There will be exactly the same warning if someone installed Civ 4 on FAT32 partition because of a bug in Civ 4 (Civ 4 doesn't sort a list of files that should be checked, NTFS returns a sorted list but FAT32 returns an unsorted list). But it should be fixed in the next patch (how many times we heard it already huh?). I made a 2 Gb NTFS partition solely for Civ 4 because of that bug, all my other partitions are FAT 32. No, IIRC it's because 1.19 patch unpacks one of the data files and packs it to 5 smaller files (it was made so to fix just another Civ 4 bug, i don't remember which). 1.52 doesn't do it. So, game works in either case and content is the same but file check gives different checksum and same warning. That said, whenever I (rarely) get an "incorrect version" message when I join a game, the host generally says that it's a bug with foreign-language versions of civ, which makes some sense, and everyone says that same thing, so I figured it was probably accurate. Is that plausible? AFAIK localization files aren't checked so they're wrong. Yes I believe I already said that above although I should have said "file system" and not OS. AFAIK, localizations do not cause file mismatch errors but graphics mods like blue marble will, unfortunately it's not possible to tell the difference between harmless mods like that and ones that might remove the fog of war or reveal the map, so unless you trust the person with the error I'd be very sceptical. CS
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Post by MMV on Apr 3, 2006 23:54:42 GMT -5
so in an ancient game, seeing the comp announce that "so'and'so" was the first to discover Liberalism on the 8th turn ISN'T a good thing?
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Post by Elledge on Apr 4, 2006 0:32:16 GMT -5
Maybe you just don't know how to tech like a REAL man!
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