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Post by Levi on Mar 5, 2006 22:13:43 GMT -5
I believe I have found a way to solve the bad peer issue once and for all. Utilizing free virtual private network software, the host creates (up to) a 16 player VPN and the peers connect to the game by direct ip. Here's what you have to do to try it. First, you need to go to www.hamachi.cc/download and dl and install the software. Second, you need to click on the "power on" button in the bottom left corner. Next you need to click on the "create or join networks" button on the bottom, second from the right. You name your network and give it a password. My first Network was named LeviNet with a password of civ4. The name of the network is case sensitive btw. Once you create a network, you are assigned a virtual ip. you then get others that have hamachi installed to join your network by providing them your network name and password. They are then assigned an ip on your vpn. The host can now create a direct IP game which the players can join without having to worry about civ4 screwing up their ip's or problems with firewalls and routers. How can this work you ask? Hamachi uses tunneling technology to burough through your router and firewalls. I believe this can also be used to host games using the lan so they will show up in the lobby but I haven't solved this one as of this posting. this really needs to be tested with 16 players, so if I can get some guinea pigs to install hamachi and try it, the entire civ community would be grateful.
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Post by venceslas on Mar 6, 2006 2:11:47 GMT -5
Hamachi is often used on the french ladder. Some players can play only with Hamachi, especially people with router.
chris.
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Post by Canucksoldier on Mar 6, 2006 14:35:55 GMT -5
I agree Levi that this can be the solution to many poeples complicated network issues, but for the general computer illerate new player this is step 10 for them, step one and two being get them on the ladder and then make them come read the forum tech help and ask for help from one of us free support types. I also suggest that the computer illerate get MSN messenger so that us tech support guys can use Remote Assistance to help them with there computer problems.
CS
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Post by donaldkipper on Mar 6, 2006 17:07:14 GMT -5
one kinda big problem - u can only play with people u trust.
By creating a VPN, u have bypassed all your security - which is why it is effective - but most people have that security for a reason. So unless u know the people you are 'letting in' this is not quite the holy grail you present it as.
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Post by Levi on Mar 6, 2006 17:23:07 GMT -5
I guess I will have to look into the security issue. I currently don't see any means by which it could be abused but I certainly don't know everything about it.
I believe that if you diable "file and printer sharing" on the hamatchi network icon, you are safe.
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Post by Canucksoldier on Mar 6, 2006 17:28:07 GMT -5
one kinda big problem - u can only play with people u trust. By creating a VPN, u have bypassed all your security - which is why it is effective - but most people have that security for a reason. So unless u know the people you are 'letting in' this is not quite the holy grail you present it as. While a VPN is bypassing your firewall entirely, just allowing Civ4 threw your firewall is still a small security risk abeit on just one port, so doing anything on the internet has some risk, it's just a matter of managing it. I've personally never been hacked(or even attempted) while playing games, but I have had attempts while using IRC, but that is a popular backdoor port for hackers. CS
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Post by Assédix on Mar 6, 2006 23:23:09 GMT -5
I believe that if you diable "file and printer sharing" on the hamatchi network icon, you are safe. Certainly not looking forward to having future MasterSnipers share my files and my printer
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redphoenix
Warrior
CCCAC Representative
Posts: 253
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Post by redphoenix on Mar 10, 2006 8:00:11 GMT -5
I don't see any file and printer sharing tab there. ? I thought this program has security of its own. But maybe someone who know more can elaborate
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Post by venceslas on Mar 10, 2006 12:15:00 GMT -5
I'm not a virus expert, but I can say one thing, the worst danger for our PC, it's ourself.
chris.
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Slaughter
Settler
God save the screen!
Posts: 48
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Post by Slaughter on Mar 10, 2006 13:13:06 GMT -5
a vpn behaves like a local lan, so beside the nice effect of being in the same ip range (which is the point for having less connection problems, as connections from users within the same ip range are normally passed through by hardware/software firewalls) you share your files and printers, e.g. accessible through a right-click on the name in hamachi. I believe that if you disable "file and printer sharing" on the hamachi network icon, you are safe. i think this will solve to stop your self made shares being accessible through hamachi, but i'm not sure if it'll stop the hidden administrative shares like c$, d$ or admin$ ... i've not tested it yet, maybe someone knows. one kinda big problem - u can only play with people u trust. By creating a VPN, u have bypassed all your security - which is why it is effective - but most people have that security for a reason. So unless u know the people you are 'letting in' this is not quite the holy grail you present it as. you can manage that, to protect yourself in a vpn you can get your software firewall to watch the hamachi network adapter as well, just put the adapter/ip range from your trusted/private list into the monitor list of your firewall (depends on your software, tested it with a university vpn on norton, zonealarm and mcafee with positive results) - as there are mostly router/hardware firewall problems and a software solution is easily manageable, this could do the trick for some users and even won't lower their security level. ok, this isn't suitable for people where the software firewall is the problem or who can't set it up correctly ... but such people shouldn't play online, who knows if it's even set up right to protect them . and by the way, you don't need to worry about viruses/trojan backdoors as this isn't a firewall but a virus scanner issue, it should guard file transfers (even from lan) and scan newly saved files. but agree to cs, hamachi should be the last option if all other fails ... i don't want to end up using hamachi everytime just because some people are too lazy to configure their settings right or to ask admins.
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Post by willburn on Mar 11, 2006 8:52:13 GMT -5
I hope this stays an underground solution for a few games.. If this gets really popular its going to mean:
Less people on gamespy Less good people for the newbies to play.
This in the end will cause:
Gamespy to downgrade servers Loss of a lot of new people on the servers and loss of good educators on the servers.
Potentially it may also cause:
Firaxis "seeing" less interest in multiplayer on the lobby and deciding to downprioritize this for the expansion..
Newbies are the lifeblood of any game.
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Post by GERMANIA on Mar 12, 2006 19:53:53 GMT -5
Well Sure they are, but to be honestly since my almost 3 years ladder history, i am almost only playing with the same players , and for my self i don't need them so i prefer a game witch works with less good players i know, then a game with almost every game problems with bad peers and connection problems
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Post by Tony on Mar 13, 2006 19:02:11 GMT -5
used it today and must say it works well.
I dont think it would stop new players joining the league, why would it? All they have to do is quickly install it, which im sure the host will tell them how to do. 2 mins later your playing no conflicts, no nothing.
But im not sure sure about security, anyone that knows a little about this, how do i know what files i am sharng on my VPN? By default it only shares "My shared documens" and others must be added?
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Post by Avogadro on Mar 13, 2006 23:21:27 GMT -5
Sounds very promising although I admit I do not understand all the technical issues involved. I believe the patch will be out soon, if these peer issues are still rampid may-haps we could make this VPN option user friendly and approach the power that be to see if it could potentially offer an alternative to the current peer frustrations.
If a simple install by all members eliminate issues.....almost sounds to go to be true but hey? I don't know much about techie stuff and lord knows C4F software sure came in handy, maybe this is the next step?
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Post by Ellestar on Mar 14, 2006 1:24:27 GMT -5
My firewall asked me if it's a trusted network when i installed Hamachi. So at least some firewalls proctect you from others on this VPN as well. As i understand, Hamachi creates a virtual network adapter. So, firewalls may work with it as with any other network. That means that Hamachi may or may not help if someone's firewall on computer where Civ is installed blocks UDP packets on port 2056. But you don't completely drop your security by using Hamachi if you have a firewall on that properly works with several network adapters. And it should solve problems with routers and external firewalls (if Hamachi can connect through them but Civ can't). There can be only 17 accounts (16+owner) in one network if we're using it for free. So we can't use one network for everyone. premium.hamachi.cc/compare.php
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Post by Atomation on Mar 14, 2006 13:08:56 GMT -5
Well, if you aren't playing a game with redphoenix, you probably don't need this (top 50 games) .
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Post by loki1023 on Mar 21, 2006 5:38:07 GMT -5
Greetings fellow civers I am the one who brought up hamachi to Levi and I have been working on a civ4 lobby script for hamachi since then . I am now ready to publicly launch The Hamachi C.4.M.P Lobby I have spoken to Canucksoldier and he likes it ,but still hopes to see the new patch fix civ4 (doubtfull though =( ) I have also spoken to Eifle about adding a link inside of CIV4FANS to the lobby and I plan to make civ4fans the official chat program for "The Hamachi C.4.M.P Lobby" that way we don't seperate the two lobbies and communities completly !
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Post by loki1023 on Mar 21, 2006 21:12:19 GMT -5
Update: I have now added a quick connect option and vpn server status indicator both require hamachi beta version 1.0.0.29 or higher .
Site also includes Tutorial on using hamachi and steps to secure your system beyond just disabling file and print sharing for the paranoid types =p
Public forums available as well
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Post by Canucksoldier on Mar 21, 2006 23:18:43 GMT -5
Yes this is a strong option for people with persistant problems and as long as we can combine your hamachi Civ4 site with C4f to keep our important presence in the lobby this can be a good tool in our toolbox. I do still hold hope that the next patch will solve connection issues for the majority and this becomes our second line of defence.
CS
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Post by loki1023 on Mar 23, 2006 0:29:07 GMT -5
New category on The Hamachi C.4.M.P Lobby forums "Security & Concerns" I just posted an email dialog I had with Alex Pankratov the creator of Hamachi about security check it out . Also I plan to make a updated tutorial for hamachi when I get some time that walks you through setting up the 1.0 beta series that has the additional security features already built into the program. I plan to recomend the 1.0 beta series as The Hamachi C.4.M.P Lobby prefered version over the .9 stable version to ease everyones concerns about security ,but I'll keep a security page up with steps for really locking things down for the paranoid types
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