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Post by SweViking on Mar 4, 2006 10:03:06 GMT -5
Hi, this thread in focuced to complain about the complainers... When i started to play this game i was hooked instantly with hours and hours of playing. I loved this game, i had it all that i wanted and more. And multiplayer was a great joy also when it worked.. Then i joined this ladder and had alot of fun also in beginning but after starting to play with better players the arguing, screming, dirt talkin started. It seemed that the most importent thing in the world was winning a regular ladder game, if the team lost some players gonna analyze it to death... why did we lose, he/she is a noob, he/she shouldent done that, we should have done this... yada yada... Arguing and beeing rude very often. This concerns a few players only so its not a general problem. i just ask my self, where is the joy of acting like that?? Just understand, that there are diffrent play styles, some players havent played civ as much as some others have. See the diffrence in players that something good instead of something bad. All are noobs in the beginning, all players make mistakes now and then, even veterans make them... Have fun, play civ, try your best to win of course. But if you lose is it the end of the world??? Because after a loss a new game starts in maximum 30 min that you can win. I would never think of beeing rude to a players "face" after a loss or a game in general. Just accept it, and dont play withthe player in a near future if you think hes that bad or give him advice without caps and alot of !!!! after the comment. i rather play a good game where i lose, then win a easy win or play with the tactic that i would take no chances. idont know if im wrong here, but every evening/night i go to play, i go to have a good time, have fun and enjoy the game i love. So please all you grumpy, unhappy and crap talkin players, start having fun with CIV or play another game!
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Post by Avogadro on Mar 4, 2006 13:03:03 GMT -5
Nice words of wisdom indeed.
Besides some forget we all were once noobs and it is by helping others that we all come to elevate our game.
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Post by Canucksoldier on Mar 4, 2006 14:16:41 GMT -5
For most people the ladder provides a good place to play games, as long as everyone follows the rules. Unfortunately it's human nature that when you put numbers besides names that some people will take winning as there primary goal. I little smack talk is ok, but we do have anti-harassment rules and good sportmanship rules so if you really have a negative experience with a player that falls into one of these two scenarios let an admin know.
CS
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Post by Tony on Mar 4, 2006 18:17:57 GMT -5
LOL, i know what game and what player you are referring to.
But the guy in question always reacts badly to losing, but i personally dont see the harm in it. Its like a football game during the game you get wound up but after its like hey it happens.
Look at it this way, you know its funny when those that really dont like losing..lose.
I would say, dont take it so personally!
If you really cant stand playing with certian players, i guess the easy option is not to.
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Post by tommynt on Mar 4, 2006 19:14:32 GMT -5
I personaly find a game much more interesting when there s some tlak before and after ...
we arent civ roobts but here to have a fun time .. so some analysis what went wrong cant be bad.
and I personaly like playing lot of different games - but for me playing a game is only fun if every1 playing tries to win - not try to win with every method .. but every1 has to give his best he can do .. if some1 is new and therefore cant do as good as other - np
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Post by zzZhenon on Mar 4, 2006 21:26:02 GMT -5
Yeah exactly... some people get all wound up during football games, why not civ? Don't take it personally and remember that it is just a game
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icbm
Settler
Posts: 60
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Post by icbm on Mar 4, 2006 23:40:33 GMT -5
I personally find it funny when someone suggests to another player that he goes to church a lot to have won the game rather than admit the other player was better than him. It is people like this that make me laugh so much, I hope they will always be here and never grow up, you're making my CIVing a lot more enjoyable than it would be without you Keep it up! Amd 1,5L of vodka can have a bad effect on performance
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Post by Sidhe on Mar 5, 2006 5:31:14 GMT -5
Having a discussion about any inherent advantage the other team might of had if any and how you could of overcome them or did overcome them, what went well and what went badly is healthy after game talk. Some r.etard shouting pwned - and if you use this expression by definition you are at least a sad loser IMO:) - in the lobby or some tard lord saying you were just lucky you suck I big strong beat you any day is fine for about a minute but then it should lead to a bit of strategy talk if it doesn't it's just pointless white noise and I tend to tune it out. I don't behave like this in game or after a game and I hope that others don't, unfortunately some people are just bad losers and or bad sports.
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Post by Ellestar on Mar 7, 2006 4:26:40 GMT -5
if the team lost some players gonna analyze it to death... why did we lose, he/she is a noob, he/she shouldent done that, we should have done this... yada yada... Analyzing the loss is MANDATORY requirment to play better. Ask any progamer, he'll tell you the same. It's the first thing you should do to improve your skills. Also, when i'm discussing it i want to hear other's opinions as well because i may be wrong in my analyze. Yet, absolute majority of players threats it either as a whine or as a personal attack even if it's said in a neutral tone. Arguing and beeing rude very often. This concerns a few players only so its not a general problem. I guess i'm one of the players who's rude But i'm rude to everyone - in real life, at a work etc. Just understand, that there are diffrent play styles, some players havent played civ as much as some others have. See the diffrence in players that something good instead of something bad. All are noobs in the beginning, all players make mistakes now and then, even veterans make them... Yes there are different playstyles. And i understand it. But... Well, i guess several examples will explain it better. 1) "Different playstyles." Well, there is a 4v4 Ren lobby teamer starting and there are 2 new players already in (noone knows them so they're new to Ren ladder teamers, rank and win/loss is so-so). It's a semi-balanced situation (each team gets a wildcard). We're waiting for eigth player. One of the new players invites another unknown player that has a skill 1100 and 100 wins/200 losses (my guess was that it's automatic death for him in the first turns if he's on front against me, wanggon or yumpak). Since noone knows how to make a balanced teams in that situation, game stalls in lobby. Longhorn decides that he doesn't want to play in such a game and quits, someone else joins. New players start to say something like "let's go" etc. I'm saying that i don't know how to make a balanced teams here. That one with skill 1100 says "Hey just do some teams and go. Who cares, it's just a game". Now a small remark. If someone says "it's just a game", then the true meaning is like that: "I don't care if i win or lose, i don't care if my team wins or loses so i don't care about other players and i don't care if they'll have fun playing this game or they don't. I don't want to learn from my mistakes or improve my skills. I'm here just to waste some time. For me it's just like watching TV show and eating popcorn." From my experience, that assumption is almost always true. By the way, when you hear it from someone with 300 games and skill 1100, you understand that you're about right in that. And guess what? I don't want to play with such players, with them or against them. I politely said him exactly that - afther that phrase it's obvious that we just have different playstyles and we just don't come along together. And i quit the staging room. So, in the end, yes, there are different playstyles. And players with such a mindset should stick to ctons if they don't care about other teammates or their team winning. Or they should play with players with the same mindset. Else, it just destroys games for a players with a different playstyles. 2) "Mistakes". Sure, i understand when players make a mistakes. Even "veterans" do it. I do them a lot as well. Now, what should i think about a player who hosts several Ren teamers every day and has 400 reports total when he places his 2nd city (with a 2nd starting settler) in the middle of a grass near enemy capital and with enemy units on two nearby forested hills??? I said him that he suicided the very turn he did it And of course i was right After such a suicide move he had half as much production as a 2nd worst production player in a game for entire game until his death... Well, i expect that everyone who played that much in exactly that setting and who is in top 20 for some time will not do a blatantly obvious suicide attempts. Guess what he said after that? "It's just a game". ROFL Just another player with 200 reports total and with a highest rank 17 built Courthouse in a capital and banks in other cities (including cities that generated 3 gold/turn). That's when i needed 5 more units max to kill Willburn for like 20-25 turns straght. Of course, he sent me 0 (ZERO) units. In the next game (after a week or so) on Industrial i said at the very start - "Please no merchants" (there are merchant specialists in cities by default). Guess what he does? He makes a merchant. I'm saying "I SAID NO F****** MERCHANTS!!!" (another act of stupidity in 2 games in a row, once again from him, so i was kinda angry). Besides, i expected something like that from him after a previous game, other players in a team were reliable. Guess what he does after that? He makes just another merchant Well i guess some players are just idiots no matter what's their rank or how much they play. And idiots drive me mad. Besides, he said me to blame StoneDGoD instead because he died to 2 transport drops. So what if he died? It's not that easy to defend, especially without an experience. But it's significantly easier not to make merchants. Sure, no reason to yell at the noob if he does that but we're talking about a player with 200 reports and a highest rank 17. Just another one. Highest rank 23, 300 reports. He failed to kill enemy THREE times. I mean, come on? Is it hard to move a stack of 2 units in 10 seconds? He failed twice in a row. If he can't both manage economy and move units then he should give units to a front player. Is it hard to move at the end of the next turn (i repeated it twice just in case)? He moves at the start and spoils a 100% town kill. After there are 6 cossacks with 2-4 str in a city and some more equally 3/4-dead units he retreats with a stack of 9-11 musketeers and says that he doesn't want to suicide against cossacks (that's when an enemy player already lost one city). By the way, he retreats and says it after i asked an advice from other players if i should attack and AFTER i already attacked. Of course, after that 3 players yelled at him. I don't see how it can be any different after that. In responce, he said that he was right in all cases and we're wrong ;D Anyway, it was the funniest game in that month Have fun, play civ, try your best to win of course. But if you lose is it the end of the world??? Because after a loss a new game starts in maximum 30 min that you can win. You can win it if you learned something. Else, it's a pointless assumption. I would never think of beeing rude to a players "face" after a loss or a game in general. Just accept it, and dont play withthe player in a near future if you think hes that bad or give him advice without caps and alot of !!!! after the comment. It's not that easy not to play with someone in a teamers. I guess the only reliable way is to host a teamer himself and don't invite players you don't want. idont know if im wrong here, but every evening/night i go to play, i go to have a good time, have fun and enjoy the game i love. It's the same for me. So please all you grumpy, unhappy and crap talkin players, start having fun with CIV or play another game! Trust me, i do have fun playing Civ 4. At least, until someone will spoil all the fun. Actually, most of the time these players fail to spoil all the fun despite their attempts. But sometimes ;D
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Post by Magzi on Mar 7, 2006 5:14:36 GMT -5
So what you're basically telling me is that I shouldn't be doing my ironing while I'm playing?
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Post by tommynt on Mar 7, 2006 6:30:16 GMT -5
I just played a teamer where 1 player in team insulted another (and basicly all in game) all game till the insulted guy quit (very understadable)
is there any way to stop such a dude - he ll join ladder games again - and do same things again and again - the 1 guys who left game ll for kinda sure not do another ladder game soon (guess he ll go to french ladder)
such people are destroing fun of games and spirtit of ladder but get even backed up by rules which say a player quitting a game has to report to all
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Post by Canucksoldier on Mar 7, 2006 12:49:36 GMT -5
The admin team will penalize players for excessive verbal abuse in the lobby or in games. We certainly don't want these people ruining the ladder experience any more than you do. If we get emails from 2-3 players in a game stating that this occurred we certainly will get that person a warning email and a few days off to think about it, all based on our good sportmenship rules. So please I encourage you not to tolerate this and give us the ammunitiition to get rid of repeat offenders.
CS
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Post by Sidhe on Mar 7, 2006 14:21:52 GMT -5
So what you're basically telling me is that I shouldn't be doing my ironing while I'm playing? Ack I hate ironing, maybe you could set up some sort of ironing service? One thing you have to remember too it's a community the number of times I used to sit in the pre game lobby in C3c and someone would say don't let him play he's a non reporter, cheat or just an a hole. Bad kharma comes back to haunt players, that's one player who wont be playing with Tommy and his buds for a while if ever, his loss. Report him as well though, lest example breed.
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Post by Ellestar on Mar 7, 2006 18:16:28 GMT -5
I hear ya tommy, and it doesn't happen just in teamers. Unfortunately, I doubt there is very much that can be done about it. If the admin put in a rule to cover such an incedent then others would use it to quit games and just state they felt they where being insulted so they don't need to report. Then it would come done to your word against his/hers. Maybe just put up with the person who is issuing the insults for that one game and then put him/her on your DNP list. Actually, all conversations are stored in a save files so players can prove that harassment has happened.
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Post by heroray on Mar 7, 2006 23:02:19 GMT -5
Nice words of wisdom indeed. Besides some forget we all were once noobs and it is by helping others that we all come to elevate our game. Avo is STILL a noob.
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icbm
Settler
Posts: 60
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Post by icbm on Mar 8, 2006 5:13:57 GMT -5
You *points at most of the top ladder players* have rought this on yourselves. How? Making it a standard to play big teamers with two teams.
That is, quite possibly, the best way to destroy the optimal CIV MP gaming experience. Why? The game usually includes noobs, making team strategy virtually impossible if it's not a clan game, the game usually lags a lot more than smaller teamers, you are playing with ppl you have no idea about, good players often get a very boring starting location, no matter how good you do or how perfect you play(kill, aid and support) you can still lose the game easily no matter how hard you're trying to give advice. I think I mentioned lag but it's worth mentioning at least 3 times more.
Now,after the rant I usually tend to write some answers. about how this should be solved.
here's my two cents:
1) Clans should start recruiting newbies that they like personally and teach them to play.
2) New ladder players should start with duels and ctons, ask intelligent questions etc or play teamers with their clan(not ladder)
3) Ladder teamers need to be more 2v2 or 3v3 or 2v2v2v2 or 3v3v3v3 etc. and teams should be friend based rather than trying to do some rank or feeling based crap. A bigger teamer is fine if it's a clan match and players have practiced it.
These three things are not impossible to realize but if no one wants a change, the experience and the pleasure that is possible to get from CIV, will be less than 10% of what it could be.
Have a nice day in CIV, I hope you read my post and think about what I'm saying before responding.
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Post by tommynt on Mar 8, 2006 5:19:42 GMT -5
2v2v2v2 or 3v3v3v3
sure that way to go much more fair and balanced as a 4-4
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Post by alice on Mar 8, 2006 10:53:46 GMT -5
i fail to see how 2v2v2 or 3v3v3 becomes more fair. the strongest players with the top seed in picks leave the third cap very a reduced talent pool to chose from, i quit rather then play one of these last night
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Post by DrShot on Mar 8, 2006 15:12:47 GMT -5
Reverse the order. rank #1 pick last rank#3 picks 1st Or, perhpas a big ' IFeven, the 6-8 players could sit and come to an intelligent conclusion about who the best suited partner for each captain would be... Likely expecting too much there Ironing? I thought you played in the buff?
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Post by ironclad on Mar 8, 2006 18:06:43 GMT -5
thats a really big IF
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