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Post by evgenetic on Mar 2, 2006 19:03:57 GMT -5
1.how can i make my units move/attack earlier than opponent's ones ? and how it is decided (calculated?) which units will move first in simultaneous turns game .i do remove any popups that may appear and click like mad on the last seconds of turn but still it doesnt always help .
2.what are the bugs related to universal suffrage,free speech and state property civics? why are they banned in ladder games?
thanks.
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Post by Sidhe on Mar 2, 2006 19:15:06 GMT -5
1. wait till the end of a turn and click on the unit just as the turn rolls over, then start using the keypad tapping on it to move faster.
This is decided by connection speed and whether you are host. it's still not fair but players will tell you it is, good thing is you can at least compete.
A T1 connection guy will claim he is gods gift to reactions but he isn't and he never was. lame arses in C3c, still spreading propaganda here
OK also you can queue up your auto-moves in the previous turn and press SHIFT ENTER at the start of the turn to move them all(can be risky but works in certain situations) after your initial move with the previous moving first technique is best, beware of losers that say they have faster reactions, they don't any more they have faster connections and less lag. They are still living in C3c the environment that rewarded "Bruce Lee" not the strategist. Some of those fools slip into CIV occasionally.
2) these civics give you stackable bonuses on your city squares, so you can get ridiculous amounts of gold and hammers if all in teamers have them, they really ruin the entire game in teamers, except futures where they even out between teams since tech aren't important it changes the entire dynamics of the game in any but future scenario, very hard to try and explain why this doesn't matter in futures but unfortunately people are dim when you talk about common sense.
This is fixed with the patch though. So wait a few weeks and it's completely irelevant.
By the way in any community 1 in 10,000 people have slightly faster reactions. And I mean slightly don't believe the hype these guys are full of it and they know it, speed of thought matters, not hand eye speed. The rest is just connection speed and there own ignorant bs.
I've yet to see someone on dial up or 128k dsl beat my reaction speed. And I'm I think average, there was a whole mythos in C3c that somehow someone was fast because of reactions nope either connection speed or there fast cause they learn the game to excess(and usually and uncannily enough both)but also because they can think fast nothing you can do hand eye co-ordination wise means jack? we're literally talking about microseconds between reaction times here.... And I can prove this scientificaly if you need it.
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Post by evgenetic on Mar 2, 2006 19:44:18 GMT -5
huge thanks for the tips, ill definitely try it next game.
but the civic thing is still unclear to me. maybe it'll be clearer with an example.
its 2 vs 2, me and my teammate have 1 city each and 2 towns in each city.basically if we have univ suff we would get +2 hammers in our cities (if the city is working the those town tiles) , so what will actually happen in this scenario ?
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Post by Sidhe on Mar 2, 2006 20:03:38 GMT -5
Ok not explained very well in a single player you will get from universal sufferage +1 gold from a town and from free speech +2 gold from a town and under state property +1 food from a workshop In a teamer these stack, so you will get from a 4v4 under universal sufferage +4 hammers from a town not +1 for each team member in their city +4 for each team member From free speech in a 4v4 +8 gold from a town From state property +4 food from a workshop Basically if you play teamers these civics unbalance the game. should be +1 hammers for all the team, +2 gold for all the team, and +1 food for all the team. Unfortunately it isn't
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Post by evgenetic on Mar 2, 2006 20:25:42 GMT -5
got it now, thanks !
still ..if this bug works the same way for both teams and both teams are aware of it , i dont see a reason banning it (am i missing something ?), those civics have other useful bonuses.
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Post by Ellestar on Mar 3, 2006 2:05:16 GMT -5
By the way in any community 1 in 10,000 people have slightly faster reactions. And I mean slightly don't believe the hype these guys are full of it and they know it, speed of thought matters, not hand eye speed. The rest is just connection speed and there own ignorant bs. I've yet to see someone on dial up or 128k dsl beat my reaction speed. And I'm I think average, there was a whole mythos in C3c that somehow someone was fast because of reactions nope either connection speed or there fast cause they learn the game to excess(and usually and uncannily enough both)but also because they can think fast nothing you can do hand eye co-ordination wise means jack? we're literally talking about microseconds between reaction times here.... And I can prove this scientificaly if you need it. Microseconds? Actually, average human reaction time is about 200 miliseconds (for example, try www.reflexgame.com note that it triggers on releasing a mouse button so press and hold it, release when border changes color). I can get 150 sometimes and 170 consistently if i'm not seriously underslept (then it grows to about 200-220). Ping is also measured in miliseconds. Modem adds a ping of +150, maybe +200 compared to a T1 or something like that. ADSL adds +20 ping (at least to me, i have a 2048/512 Kb ADSL). Also, if host is in USA i have an additional +200 to ping (or more if he lives in the middle of nowhere and has a bad ping to major lines himself). For europe, it's additional +20 to +40 ping for me (sometimes up to +130 if host's connection sucks). Say, i have a ping 38 to europe.battle.net (Starcraft/Warcraft/Diablo etc., 20 ADSL + 18 my provider->Telia provider to a total of 38) So, as you see, i may get about +50 miliseconds compared to somewhat slow player (170 vs 220 miliseconds reaction time). Pings difference is significantly bigger in most cases. Also, when you just spam a keyboard , reaction time isn't important at all.
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Post by tommynt on Mar 3, 2006 6:45:23 GMT -5
fast moving is more then a matter of ping - in fact i discovered a "superfast move" latly which was much faster as hosts move - sadly (or maybe it s good) i was not able to fully redo it
anyway there are more then rumors that this ll also be changed by patch
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Post by Sidhe on Mar 3, 2006 9:15:40 GMT -5
By the way in any community 1 in 10,000 people have slightly faster reactions. And I mean slightly don't believe the hype these guys are full of it and they know it, speed of thought matters, not hand eye speed. The rest is just connection speed and there own ignorant bs. I've yet to see someone on dial up or 128k dsl beat my reaction speed. And I'm I think average, there was a whole mythos in C3c that somehow someone was fast because of reactions nope either connection speed or there fast cause they learn the game to excess(and usually and uncannily enough both)but also because they can think fast nothing you can do hand eye co-ordination wise means jack? we're literally talking about microseconds between reaction times here.... And I can prove this scientificaly if you need it. Microseconds? Actually, average human reaction time is about 200 miliseconds (for example, try www.reflexgame.com note that it triggers on releasing a mouse button so press and hold it, release when border changes color). I can get 150 sometimes and 170 consistently if i'm not seriously underslept (then it grows to about 200-220). Ping is also measured in miliseconds. Modem adds a ping of +150, maybe +200 compared to a T1 or something like that. ADSL adds +20 ping (at least to me, i have a 2048/512 Kb ADSL). Also, if host is in USA i have an additional +200 to ping (or more if he lives in the middle of nowhere and has a bad ping to major lines himself). For europe, it's additional +20 to +40 ping for me (sometimes up to +130 if host's connection sucks). Say, i have a ping 38 to europe.battle.net (Starcraft/Warcraft/Diablo etc., 20 ADSL + 18 my provider->Telia provider to a total of 38) So, as you see, i may get about +50 miliseconds compared to somewhat slow player (170 vs 220 miliseconds reaction time). Pings difference is significantly bigger in most cases. Also, when you just spam a keyboard , reaction time isn't important at all. When I do reaction test I always come out as being slow, when I play badminton people remark on how fast my reactions are? Trouble with these tests is I have ashort attention span and I get bored very quickly. According to these tests my reactions speed is somewhere betwee .39 and 4 seconds. Not really a very good test of reactions IMO. Since I have always considered my reactions as pretty average. Reaction is more about mental prediction and quick witts than actual physical hand eye co-ordination.... Think fast I did a test too computer is pseudo random so if you do the test enough times you can predict when it is going to change I've got my reactions down to less than .05 doing this. Also I got .172 from doing the test the standard way but I'd say that was a freak result. Probably would average out at about.200 I take it back it's a boring test but I guess it worked
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Post by markweston on Mar 3, 2006 9:18:07 GMT -5
got it now, thanks ! still ..if this bug works the same way for both teams and both teams are aware of it , i dont see a reason banning it (am i missing something ?), those civics have other useful bonuses. My answer is, because they completely unbalance the game, and therefore reduce the number of strategies available down to one. If there's only one optimum strategy (i.e. abuse the broken civics as hard as you can) then there are no interesting decisions to make. Everyone will be doing the same thing.
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Post by Ellestar on Mar 3, 2006 12:06:34 GMT -5
My answer is, because they completely unbalance the game, and therefore reduce the number of strategies available down to one. If there's only one optimum strategy (i.e. abuse the broken civics as hard as you can) then there are no interesting decisions to make. Everyone will be doing the same thing. Like making tons of knights, upgrading them to cossacks and steamrolling opposition BTW it summed up nicely in a Tom Cadwell's "Lecture 8: Play Balance" (rewritten article is here www.gamedev.net/reference/design/features/balance/default.asp , but i prefer an original one). Game balance, in the broadest sense, is derived from two major axioms of game design. The first is that players should have options and choices -- a game without choices is usually not really a game... choices and the interaction involved are what elevate a game from reciting a script, or watching a movie.
The second is that games should not have unnecessary components that dilute the gameplay. Choices that are never a "right" choice, or are almost always a wrong choice are not really choices at all, and are just noise that makes the rest of the game less compelling. Combine these two, and you have the basis of balance. Specific balance issues are listed below:
1) Dominant Strategies A dominant strategy is a case where one choice is always better than the other. This is always bad, because its effectively one choice, with noise -- not a compelling bit of gameplay. In multiplayer games, this manifests itself as times where you always play the same strategy no matter what, or when one player can play a particular sequence of actions and responses that guarantee the other player will be at a disadvantage, no matter what.
... etc.
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