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Post by TheClash on Jul 10, 2007 4:36:54 GMT -5
This isn't Civ3, it's Civ4 ... unbalanced game issues in the past shouldn't be an excuse to continue creating unbalanced concepts now. You're not the player now that you were then ... nearly 2 years of managing ever-changing, new, and unbalanced game issues shouldn't be an excuse to NOT grow as a player and deal with new challenges. There's a place for people who don't like change and new challenges - it's called Civ3 rofl MMV, hope you grow soon so that Mookie will be afraid of your challenge
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Post by MMV on Jul 10, 2007 4:49:27 GMT -5
well from some other posts in here, we have a few people with "challenges" lol
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Post by Polydeukes on Jul 10, 2007 5:32:46 GMT -5
It seems there are going to be loads of ancient non-resource units, games will be rush, rush, rush. Kinda funny because this is what SP hate most about MP. totally agree with tony anc teamers (95% played on tbg) will be completly ruined by those non ressource units. totally insane are Native Americans: Leader: Sitting Bull - Philosophical, ProtectiveStarting Techs: Fishing, Agriculture Unique Unit: Dog Soldier (Axeman), has -1 strength but an additional +50% vs. melee units. Also requires no resources to build. Unique Building: Totem Pole (Monument), all new archery units get +3 experience.WTF?!?? seriously what is that civ about? in fact when you start next to that civ you are already dead or choked that hard that you will die soon. You can build a ressourceless axe after 5-6 turns even if you have planted on horse you will most likely not have a chariot ready. And why a protective civ gets +3 exp from an ub (henge rofl) on archers is beyond me, pro archers are already really good. Those proarcher with + 5 exp (with barracks) are just insane free drill city defense and 2 more promos. Whats that smoke on my forrest hill?? aah native american dogsoldiers and double hill archers sitting there smoking the peace pipe. gg
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Post by TheClash on Jul 10, 2007 6:30:30 GMT -5
yes agreed. Solution: come to OCC reny or later era Your all welcome ;D
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Post by toratoratora on Jul 10, 2007 6:39:31 GMT -5
LOL Poly Funny Post ;D ;D ;D
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Post by zzZhenon on Jul 10, 2007 12:05:51 GMT -5
It seems there are going to be loads of ancient non-resource units, games will be rush, rush, rush. Kinda funny because this is what SP hate most about MP. totally agree with tony anc teamers (95% played on tbg) will be completly ruined by those non ressource units. totally insane are Native Americans: Leader: Sitting Bull - Philosophical, ProtectiveStarting Techs: Fishing, Agriculture Unique Unit: Dog Soldier (Axeman), has -1 strength but an additional +50% vs. melee units. Also requires no resources to build. Unique Building: Totem Pole (Monument), all new archery units get +3 experience.WTF?!?? seriously what is that civ about? in fact when you start next to that civ you are already dead or choked that hard that you will die soon. You can build a ressourceless axe after 5-6 turns even if you have planted on horse you will most likely not have a chariot ready. And why a protective civ gets +3 exp from an ub (henge rofl) on archers is beyond me, pro archers are already really good. Those proarcher with + 5 exp (with barracks) are just insane free drill city defense and 2 more promos. Whats that smoke on my forrest hill?? aah native american dogsoldiers and double hill archers sitting there smoking the peace pipe. gg i think sitting bull will be cool... but i think civs like egypt, mali, zulu, maya, it will be somewhat balanced. If we stop playing noob random civs, we'll be fine. It would definately suck to be frederick vs sitting bull lmao.
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Post by zzZhenon on Jul 10, 2007 12:08:44 GMT -5
Those proarcher with + 5 exp (with barracks) are just insane free drill city defense and 2 more promos. it's +6 xp btw and with vassalage and theo you will have +10 xp protective longbows FTW!! lol ;D
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Post by metallian on Jul 10, 2007 14:08:10 GMT -5
Most of the stuff you guys have mentioned has been said to the developers, however they continued to ignore the MP beta testers request and implemented some dumb things into BTS. Most of the SP community is just concerned with stupid things like ethnic units opposed to game play and balancing issues that needed to be addressed.
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Post by longhorn on Jul 10, 2007 14:37:28 GMT -5
totally agree with tony anc teamers (95% played on tbg) will be completly ruined by those non ressource units. totally insane are Native Americans: Leader: Sitting Bull - Philosophical, ProtectiveStarting Techs: Fishing, Agriculture Unique Unit: Dog Soldier (Axeman), has -1 strength but an additional +50% vs. melee units. Also requires no resources to build. Unique Building: Totem Pole (Monument), all new archery units get +3 experience.WTF?!?? seriously what is that civ about? in fact when you start next to that civ you are already dead or choked that hard that you will die soon. You can build a ressourceless axe after 5-6 turns even if you have planted on horse you will most likely not have a chariot ready. And why a protective civ gets +3 exp from an ub (henge rofl) on archers is beyond me, pro archers are already really good. Those proarcher with + 5 exp (with barracks) are just insane free drill city defense and 2 more promos. Whats that smoke on my forrest hill?? aah native american dogsoldiers and double hill archers sitting there smoking the peace pipe. gg Poly, are you sure that a -1 STR axeman will take a fortified archer in a city out? From what I see here, all this civ does is obsolete Churchill as the best Civ
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redphoenix
Warrior
CCCAC Representative
Posts: 253
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Post by redphoenix on Jul 10, 2007 14:37:46 GMT -5
Well, mali can still counter this guy though. On flat terrain a skirmisher beats still these archers, plus will beat these axemen too. Also these axes arent supreme vs archers since they are -1 strenght... but well... yeah... you can couple them with these idiot archers too heh. Shouldn't give one civ 2 super ancient units. Having only one of these is enough. This axeman is like a resourcefree preatorian vs melee units, basically. But yes, it isn't as strong vs other units. Main point here is that it's resource free I guess
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redphoenix
Warrior
CCCAC Representative
Posts: 253
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Post by redphoenix on Jul 10, 2007 14:39:07 GMT -5
totally agree with tony anc teamers (95% played on tbg) will be completly ruined by those non ressource units. totally insane are Native Americans: Leader: Sitting Bull - Philosophical, ProtectiveStarting Techs: Fishing, Agriculture Unique Unit: Dog Soldier (Axeman), has -1 strength but an additional +50% vs. melee units. Also requires no resources to build. Unique Building: Totem Pole (Monument), all new archery units get +3 experience.WTF?!?? seriously what is that civ about? in fact when you start next to that civ you are already dead or choked that hard that you will die soon. You can build a ressourceless axe after 5-6 turns even if you have planted on horse you will most likely not have a chariot ready. And why a protective civ gets +3 exp from an ub (henge rofl) on archers is beyond me, pro archers are already really good. Those proarcher with + 5 exp (with barracks) are just insane free drill city defense and 2 more promos. Whats that smoke on my forrest hill?? aah native american dogsoldiers and double hill archers sitting there smoking the peace pipe. gg Poly, are you sure that a -1 STR axeman will take a fortified archer in a city out? From what I see here, all this civ does is obsolete Churchill as the best Civ No it won't, but it'll kill everything outside the city(unless enemy has chariots, but close up you won't have time to get them). And when the triple promoted archers follow it's carnage time. For the early rush this guy(dogsoldier) isn't any better than a skirm though. So rather even to mali. dogsoldier has 8 combat vs melee units(regular axe is actually 7.5 as it is, so not that much weaker.), same as praetorian. But is killed a lot easier by other units. the totempole seems like a top unique building though, those triple promo archers rock I don't think this guy ruins games though anymore than mali does.
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Post by Elledge on Jul 10, 2007 18:55:34 GMT -5
So...anyone up for a game of Alpha Centauri?
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Post by Polydeukes on Jul 10, 2007 21:48:09 GMT -5
Poly, are you sure that a -1 STR axeman will take a fortified archer in a city out? From what I see here, all this civ does is obsolete Churchill as the best Civ hmm if you go archery first you will have an archer maybe but if you go bronze you prolly wont then its a dog vs warrior :/
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Post by Polydeukes on Jul 10, 2007 21:55:06 GMT -5
Well, mali can still counter this guy though. On flat terrain a skirmisher beats still these archers, plus will beat these axemen too. Also these axes arent supreme vs archers since they are -1 strenght... but well... yeah... you can couple them with these idiot archers too heh. Shouldn't give one civ 2 super ancient units. Having only one of these is enough. This axeman is like a resourcefree preatorian vs melee units, basically. But yes, it isn't as strong vs other units. Main point here is that it's resource free I guess Yeah mali will survive mali always survives but my point is you have no counter vs a combo of those archer dogsoldier until construction. you can beat a skirm on a forrest hill with 2 anti archer swords or 3 regular. But how you beat a double hill archer and a dogsoldi on a forrest hill? yes main point is that a resource free axe is just nuts :/ and in combo with those archers its just wrong.
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Post by MMV on Jul 10, 2007 22:36:39 GMT -5
Ask George Armstrong Custer and his cavalry units (oooooooooooo bad example, very bad....)
Yes, the "dog soldier" as well as the other native american warriors WERE tough units in real-life. They were basically "suicidal" in the sense that it was an honor to die fighting their enemies - they were fighting for survival and beliefs, we were fighting for real-estate. They could EASILY have made them tougher (stealing the pale-faced women from your city reducing your population by 10% per turn for 10 turns).
Comparisons to Mali, Aztec, Zulu, etc are GOOD examples - "the ancients" and their native peoples had HUGE advantages in their culture, science, religion, etc - ALL combined into "unique warrior units" that were revered in positions of honor. I liked the Mayan's from Civ3 too and wish they would have brought them back (What spain couldn't kill with the modern weaponry of the time, they just infected with syphillis, lol)
They had bows/arrows, tomahawks/war-clubs - how do you/can you reflect this in Civ? In Civ3/PTW it was war ponies (using the same weaponry) and war-ponies in Civ3/PTW were devastating
It took the British, French, Spansih, and Americans PLUS gunpowder and cavalry before they finally submitted to shear numbers.
I like this unit, it's truly representational of North America - and this SHOULD be represented by a TOUGH unit. It doesn't "unbalance" anything.
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Post by MMV on Jul 10, 2007 22:46:40 GMT -5
and before someone says....
"This isn't Civ3, it's Civ4 ... unbalanced game issues in the past shouldn't be an excuse to continue creating unbalanced concepts now"
No, it was truly UNBALANCED before -
Now they are actually just balancing MORE of Civ to make it more challenging, add more interesting factors, and reflect more great civilizations of the past
But if you want balanced, less challenging games - there's always solitaire, checkers, yahtzee - and there's even a Case's Ladder League for them
Do you REALLY think Custer and his cavalry units screamed, "THAT'S NOT FAIR, THIS IS UNBALANCED" before the "dog-soldiers" made loin-cloths out of their scalps?
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Post by Matlowe on Jul 11, 2007 4:05:29 GMT -5
lol i love reading MMV's posts, but anyways time to stop moaning and hit the civ books and form some strats Maybe this uu will stop all these tbg anc-medi games Era's above the sword look more promising as it states
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Post by 9iron9 on Jul 12, 2007 6:33:13 GMT -5
yes agreed. Solution: come to OCC reny or later era Your all welcome ;D occ indu , gg balmung
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Post by zzZhenon on Jul 12, 2007 16:37:15 GMT -5
So...anyone up for a game of Alpha Centauri? I just reinstalled SMACX... where you at?
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Post by penny on Jul 12, 2007 20:29:24 GMT -5
Well, mali can still counter this guy though. On flat terrain a skirmisher beats still these archers, plus will beat these axemen too. Also these axes arent supreme vs archers since they are -1 strenght... but well... yeah... you can couple them with these idiot archers too heh. Shouldn't give one civ 2 super ancient units. Having only one of these is enough. This axeman is like a resourcefree preatorian vs melee units, basically. But yes, it isn't as strong vs other units. Main point here is that it's resource free I guess After some reflexion, I came to this conclusion as well : This Dogsoldier would be nuts if not ressource-free. Am not concerned about the archer - Dogsolier mix, as it requires 2 buildings, while this guy is gonna do those buildings, I'll do something else, (say : units). My concern would be a smart mix of those DS with a Spammed on bronze Impis
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