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Post by lorddragon on Jan 7, 2006 1:57:08 GMT -5
I think the title says it all. Classical in a cton is called "who gets horses in capital, wins".
I mean at least in ancient you have a chance to expand and interfere with their resource collection. But in classical if they have horses in their capital they can have horse archers charging your archers before you can do squat. Game Over. God, I just hate losing, twice in a row, to incompetents because of that. No more classical ctons, period.
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Post by Sidhe on Jan 7, 2006 2:06:53 GMT -5
Don't spearmen kill horse archers really easily? if you have no bronze or iron or horse then your screwed but with a resource you should be ok.
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Post by lorddragon on Jan 7, 2006 2:17:02 GMT -5
Yes, notice the part about "with resource you should be ok"?
Without copper in the immediate capital, you are screwed. He will have horses in your base before you can research iron or get an expansion to mine a nearby resource. Its really annoying.
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Post by Sidhe on Jan 7, 2006 2:24:45 GMT -5
yeah got to agree with you here, this needs modding somewhat, maybe a resourcless start unit. Like bowmen or infantry. or starting with three Archers not 1. Something to off set the horse bonus maybe. Did they tell you how clever a player they were and that it wasn't luck just skill, gotta love it when that happens In real life a horse charging a fortified position was suicide, maybe your cap should start with walls? Build walls off the bat if you have no horse/bronze/iron I supose will help, a +10% bonus above 40% is better than nowt, also build on hills, not everyone knows this but building your cap on hills gives it the same as on grassland but with an extra hammer not just the +25% bonus. With walls that's +75% .So you have +75% +25% for fortified bonus gives 6. The equal of horse. with a defensive promotion you'll kill them before they can kill you only likely promo they can use is withdraw or +10% attack, so you have 125% thats 6.75 strength vs 6.6. or non agr 6.75 vs 6 if agr they will not be able to promote again untill they attack so you should out defend them with equal numbers. Build four archers off the bat should help and all the rest but, I am in agreement, the horse start should be nerfed by a two or three archer start. I know it's fiction but in Lord of the Rings Faramir charges Osgiliath after it has been fortified and his entire unit barring himself are killed, that is precisely what will happen. Futiley brave but doomed almost as pointless as charging strongly defended cannon positions. Horse charge on the flank or rear,100% succes, horses against cities, screwed with any sort of fortification, makeshift or otherwise.
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gwb
Settler
Posts: 1
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Post by gwb on Jan 7, 2006 4:39:20 GMT -5
Khal Drogo has had enough of classical as well. Classical is a horsechoke.
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Post by Sidhe on Jan 7, 2006 8:55:18 GMT -5
I hope someone with the ability to mod is listening, a SImple 3 archer start should be enough to nerf the horse charge. Or all cities start with walls maybe?
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Post by tommynt on Jan 7, 2006 9:16:02 GMT -5
Ya Claisical totaly useless, stonenaghe t4 and horsearchers out in t7 - if u have right civ and land u win , if not .. not
proly it s a bit better on a map like hub or islands or so , where u have a bit more time before fihgts go off
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agent_x7
Settler
Agent of Truth
Posts: 65
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Post by agent_x7 on Jan 7, 2006 23:57:30 GMT -5
Horses aern't as powerful as the copper/iron based units. Even horse archers can't compete. The only leader who would benefit more from having horses is probablly either the mongols or catherine the great....
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Post by Sidhe on Jan 8, 2006 3:54:50 GMT -5
First unit you build should be a second archer surely? Even so the horse archer dagger is going to get you in the end. Give me a mod with 3 archer start The point is as well that starting with bronze/iron isn't exactly a forgone conclusion, your worker may not be able to hook it in time to build a spear anyway particularly if you need expansion to get it.
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Post by friedrichpsitalon on Jan 8, 2006 14:20:55 GMT -5
::cough:: I think Tommy came up with a pretty good suggestion there... maybe a map that doesn't strongly encourage dagger play?
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Post by tommynt on Jan 8, 2006 16:43:59 GMT -5
major problem is overpower of india in this scenario - proly india very powerful in all other earas aswell - but in this its just very anyoing - early wonders are just reserved for india
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Post by Sidhe on Jan 8, 2006 17:31:13 GMT -5
yeah but relagating classical, and renaisance to single scenarios is just dull. Horses/knights, need to be nerfed by mods, not game options IMHO.
Play random, if you get India, good for you,opponents just go kill India ASAP;)
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Post by sparta on Jan 8, 2006 22:15:45 GMT -5
I played a classical Hub today, and it stopped my killing a little bit(only killed 2 of them)
Just play maps where it takes a lot longer to find your opponent(Isn't their a map called maze?) and then this problem is fixed.
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Post by Sidhe on Jan 9, 2006 1:14:05 GMT -5
yeah bnut playing on the same maps is dull. What we need is a mod not to be forced into the same map choices every time. Simply giving everyone 3/4 archers to start would stop this problem. Then you could play on any map. And have fun attacking everyone off the bat.
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Post by friedrichpsitalon on Jan 9, 2006 23:51:22 GMT -5
You're right. So play Classical on... Wheel Ring Hub Inland Sea Archipelago Ice Age Maze Team Battleground East/West Custom Continents ...and you ought to be okay with not playing on the same old dull maps and avoid the horse problem.
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Post by sparta on Jan 11, 2006 22:59:24 GMT -5
I was wondering Fried(or anyone who has played it,) how complex is the actual 'maze' in the Maze map?
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Post by friedrichpsitalon on Jan 12, 2006 21:13:21 GMT -5
Load it up in SP, turn on the worldbuilder, check it out.
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Post by sparta on Jan 13, 2006 10:29:41 GMT -5
Load it up in SP, turn on the worldbuilder, check it out. Awesome answer ;D
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Post by civerdan on Jan 13, 2006 21:47:43 GMT -5
Hub is decent Classical Map. Wheel, eh. Still easy enough to screw someone with a couple horse archers. Maybe people shouldnt start with horseback riding here. The "Stonehenge in 4" problem could be remedied by making it un-buildable.
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Post by mrgametheory on Jan 18, 2006 11:53:59 GMT -5
You guys are rediculous, the best way to nerf The horse archer or any charge is to just build scouts non stop and surround the horse archers charging with a protetive sheild. Just rush with like 40 scouts and they wont be able to move to even get to your base.
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