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Post by MookieNJ on Dec 28, 2005 1:09:30 GMT -5
Hi everyone. I'm relatively new to the ladder and have a question about a game I tried to play earlier tonight. We were playing 4 players, 20 to 30 turns had gone by, and due to GameSpy server issues or whatever, the game froze, then went out of sync, and then ended when nobody could come back. Alright, time to move on I guess, find another game or whatever. Then I get an email asking me to report a loss to the 3 other players in the game. We only played 20 to 30 turns, and to be honest, I don't even remember what place I was in when the game crashed. I'm pretty sure I wasn't last, though . Anyways, do I really have to report losses on this? It seems pretty crazy, as the game had barely started before it crashed and ended. Thanks a lot . MookieNJ
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Post by ghost on Dec 28, 2005 1:54:04 GMT -5
from games i've played that this happen to me on is if a player died before the game frozze that player has to report there losses. but on all other players still in game and still alive when game frozze don't have to report cause for 1 the game wasn't finished. for 2 anything can happen during the turns of the game that where unplayable due to game being frozze.
only 1 game where i've played and game frozze with 2 turns left did players report in cause all agreed that standings on the froze turn where going to be the final standings of the game.
so to answer your question i would say no u don't have to report if more then 5 turns where lost in the game due to being frozen. but i'm no admin so final word don't come from my saying.
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Post by whiplash on Dec 28, 2005 2:36:17 GMT -5
If the freakin' game was stable this kind of a problem would not even come up.
Maybe just suspend the whole reporting thing until we get more patches. The whole concept of rank on the ladder has its basis the competition in an arena of fair compition. From the posts I read here it seems that games are won or lost on the basis of who is on the right side of the bugs. With that going on the ladder stats and ranks are totally meaningless.
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Post by Sidhe on Dec 28, 2005 3:37:37 GMT -5
With players resetting there stats(some with good reason most not) they have always been meaningless No don't report if it was a few turns from the end you can discuss calling it on score otherwise chalk it up to experience, this happened to me again yesterday when I was winning. But then it only ever happens when I'm winning
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Post by Tony on Dec 28, 2005 8:15:47 GMT -5
With players resetting there stats(some with good reason most not) they have always been meaningless Its funny most people saying this, but its seems these are the people that post the most about reporting issues. Im owed 10 reports, im not gonna report, etc etc
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Post by friedrichpsitalon on Dec 28, 2005 9:41:17 GMT -5
Keep the discussion non-personal and about the topic, not taking potshots at people.
::keeps the padlock ready::
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Post by MMV on Dec 28, 2005 10:49:18 GMT -5
If the freakin' game was stable this kind of a problem would not even come up. Maybe just suspend the whole reporting thing until we get more patches. The whole concept of rank on the ladder has its basis the competition in an arena of fair compition. From the posts I read here it seems that games are won or lost on the basis of who is on the right side of the bugs. With that going on the ladder stats and ranks are totally meaningless. C4 still has all the same issues as C3. In Civ3 games the VERY common terms are "scrap," "reload," and/or, "he can't connect, he CONFLICTS." Of course in Civ3, we can't blame it on Firaxis, "new," or "lack of support."
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Post by Tony on Dec 28, 2005 12:46:56 GMT -5
MMV i gotta say i totally disagree, yes terms such as scrap, relaod etc were very common in C3C. And CIV4 has WAY less lagg and relaods, which is a good thing but we are facing a bigger uglier monster...Not being able to connect in the first place. I hate to keep banging the same drum agian and agian, but personally i can only connect to a game with more then 3 players in it 10%(20% on a really good day) of the time. It has issues but not the same issues! EDIT:: The time stamp on this is 12:46, check the edit time and that how long i been trying to connect to a game, open or ladder...anything. 45 mins almost I give up!!
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Post by MookieNJ on Dec 28, 2005 13:49:50 GMT -5
Any other opinions on my situation? I don't want to cheat anyone out of a well deserved victory, however, I don't think playing about 20% of a game without being eliminated, without being under attack from any foes, and then having the game crash and end due to some sort of GameSpy server problems is really any kind of a defeat for me. In the end, I will do what I'm told, I don't want to be a whiny bitch or a sore loser. So please continue to weigh in with your thoughts, and if there is an admin (or admins) reading this who could make an official ruling on the matter, I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks all! MookieNJ
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Post by Death to ALL on Dec 28, 2005 18:11:54 GMT -5
did you recieve an email about a non-report claim being filed, or was it just a reminder from one or more of the players in the game?
In this situation , I would call the game a scratch, the only way you would still owe reports would be if the other 3 tried to reload the game and you didn't join them. When you decided to go find another game, was this while you were still in the agme waiting on the others to rejoin or was it in the lobby failing to connect for a reload?
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Post by Sidhe on Dec 28, 2005 18:19:53 GMT -5
With players resetting there stats(some with good reason most not) they have always been meaningless Its funny most people saying this, but its seems these are the people that post the most about reporting issues. Im owed 10 reports, im not gonna report, etc etc Can I just say: report them, the ladder is about fairness and good sportsmanship, when you don't report and yes I'm as guilty as anyone of conceeding that there are a lot of new players who don't understand/agree with the rules. so I've been letting it slide, I've been too tolerant. Save the screenshot at the end of game, wait 24 hours for a report, if none is forthcomig, remind them to report and be sure to explain to noobs why, wait 24hrs again if no joy: file a non report; Keep the screenshot and wait for the emails confirming there unwillingness to report, send them to the admins then. The admins are right, not reporting the non reporters can only encourage them and make this situation worse.
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Post by MookieNJ on Dec 28, 2005 18:31:06 GMT -5
did you recieve an email about a non-report claim being filed, or was it just a reminder from one or more of the players in the game? In this situation , I would call the game a scratch, the only way you would still owe reports would be if the other 3 tried to reload the game and you didn't join them. When you decided to go find another game, was this while you were still in the agme waiting on the others to rejoin or was it in the lobby failing to connect for a reload? I just received a reminder from one of the players in the game, not a non-report claim notice. I waited in the original game for awhile, when it was clear it wasn't going to work I headed back to the lobby. We were trying to reload or restart the game but I was continuing to have connection troubles. Eventually I decided that it wasn't worth fighting with the GameSpy servers anymore ... and now I'm stuck in this mess!
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Post by claudelu on Dec 28, 2005 19:18:12 GMT -5
YOU alone cannot decide you don't want to deal with this anymore. All players need to decide. If the game was uncompleteable for any reason, you wouldn't owe a report. However, it seems to me that they DID continue the game after you "decided" to not deal with it anymore. When you enter a game you HAVE to find every possible way to finish it (new host, joining in first, etc) so that the whole concept of the ladder (not quitting games) doesn't go to hell. IMO, if they found a way to continue the game, and you four never agreed that it is a scrap, you owe the reports. I have had many players who only try once or not at all to join a reload, they simply leave and not report. I WILL file unreported match for those. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and believe that you did try a few times to join a reload, but it seems you didn't have an agreement for scrap. It is painful sometimes, but without it the ladder wouldn't survive. I could just get out of a bad game, and pretend I cannot connect, can't I? then just leave... You can see how abuse can be born out of this.
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Post by MMV on Dec 28, 2005 19:33:15 GMT -5
Its funny most people saying this, but its seems these are the people that post the most about reporting issues. Im owed 10 reports, im not gonna report, etc etc Can I just say: report them, the ladder is about fairness and good sportsmanship, when you don't report and yes I'm as guilty as anyone of conceeding that there are a lot of new players who don't understand/agree with the rules. so I've been letting it slide, I've been too tolerant. Save the screenshot at the end of game, wait 24 hours for a report, if none is forthcomig, remind them to report and be sure to explain to noobs why, wait 24hrs again if no joy: file a non report; Keep the screenshot and wait for the emails confirming there unwillingness to report, send them to the admins then. The admins are right, not reporting the non reporters can only encourage them and make this situation worse. Really?
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Post by NicodaMax on Dec 29, 2005 11:11:20 GMT -5
After carefull consideration I've come to the following conclusion: I think that for the sake of the Ladder's well being (or survival?) we should always report our losses, even in those odd (?) cases where we've spent an hour trying to finish that game (reboot, reload, remake, etc...). Unless ofcourse ALL players decide to scrap (which btw is almost always impossible, because players who have a chance at winning that game will obviously want to finish it no matter what) or if some nice guy beleives you and says "that happened to me many times too, so don't worry, don't report your loss to me, etc" Like Claudelu says, it is painful sometimes, but without it the ladder wouldn't survive. Strict rules are so that there is 0% chance of abuse out of this. In the long run, after the 35th patch the game will be stable enough so that this is really a very odd case. In the meantime...who cares if because of some weird bug you'll have to report eight losses in that cton, I mean, its just a game right! Statistically, you should get enough reports in your favour out of this to balance the ones against you (in the long run). For our mental health, and the ladder's, we should just always report our losses, in an honest an disattached way . Should be our new year's resolution! ;D Happy New Year!
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Post by SirPartyMan on Dec 29, 2005 12:24:39 GMT -5
Our rules are fairly clear on this point.
A game can be scrapped (after multiple attempts to fix the problem) by:
a) a unanimous vote, regardless of game size b) by a nearly unanimous vote (all but one) provided the game has 4 players or more.
Obviously, no one reports a loss if the game is scrapped. But this requires a vote by the remaining players in the game.
Otherwise - game on - if you lose, can't reconnect, and/or are beaten, then you report - even if its only 20 turns and you don't feel vanquished.
Whenever a game is interrupted, rejoin the lobby within 10 minutes and try to find host, rejoin game. If you don't and the others proceed without you - you are liable to report to them.
In the story Mookie told it was unclear if there was ever a discussion or vote. In the absence of that, yes, you report your losses.
Best, SPM
PS: I like NicodaMax's attitude. Happy New Year.
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Post by Sidhe on Dec 29, 2005 14:33:37 GMT -5
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