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Post by Sidhe on Mar 10, 2006 14:20:31 GMT -5
they attack you because you have a habit of using gasoline to try and put out the fire! And we seemingly have yet to learn this too no, they attack us because they are defending themselves in a war "they" aren't "instigating" ANYTHING anymore. That's like you in a civ game - "Since I had no resources, I IMMEDIATELY hit the rusher SQUARE in his fist with my eye" What are you babbling on about, as if refering to our colonial past wasn't irrelevant enough we're now having to hear week anaologies about CIV? We're not the ones on the defensive, you asked why the world has turned against you, I told you the unvarnished truth. You can go on saying yeah we took the fight to them. In Afghanistan maybe, but since Saddam never had any links with terror what so ever, I fail to see how what your doing now is warring on terror? There is terrorism but it is internal sectarian terrorism. I would imagine Al quayeda are having a a chuckle to themselves, and breathing easy while you guys divert all your atention. If you honestly think you can and will ever win a war on terror by warring on it with conventional means then your a fool. The more terrorists you kill the more cause you give people to join the cause. Afghanistan was a good way to make a statement about your intolerance of terror, and taking out Saddam was perhaps the only good thing about Iraq, but I really think stirring up the Middle East any more is a world of pain, can of worms, pandoras box, have you ever considered there are better ways of fighting terror? Interfering with the middle East will simply cause more people to join against the US(give the terrorists more recruiting potential, right now with their threats of Iran you can here there coffers filling and recruits numbers rising, whats next?) I really can't see any sense in stirring up an area that already is fragile anyway? It's just bull headed idiocy Fight oil with fire, brilliant Ajez if you think bush is fighting terrorism, you are mistaken. No one is born a terrorist, this good versus evil battle bush has painted is ... silly. I agree a firm stance was required agiasnt extreme Islam, sitting back and hoping the next president will take care of it is reckless, but what is even more reckless is invading a country for no reason. For every innocent life lost, 3-4 potential terrorists are born, there is nothing more dangerous then a borken man with nothing to lose. This doesnt only apply to Iraq! The correct way to apprach this, would have been with diplomacy, intelligence, breaking terror networks, and yes war if needed Being a terrorist is a frame of mind, the only ingredients are; 1) enough hate, 2) explosives/ the means. And bush is throwing gas on number 1 and at the same time giving extremists some lovely propaganda to feed young impressionable people. All this people said i do belive bushs HAS got good intensions, and he has brought a very serious problem into the limelight, i could see other presidents brushing it under the carpet. Bush is a brave leader, but the problem is hes just too dumb and reckless, he dont know how to deal with situations without war. I belive a WAR on terror was very much needed, but not one on humanity. I think Tony is the only one here talking in a vaguely unbiased way, MMV has lost all sense of perspective, maybe being in the service means you learn to stop questioning and caring how weak your current government is, Ajerzey is a patriot, nothing wrong with that, but your seeing America with spectacles that are rose tinted, I'm saying what I hear and what people say over here and in Europe, now I can paint a nice picture if you like but this is what people think, there is no faith in Bush here or anywhere else in the world, I have yet to see anyone who thinks he's doing a good job. Also the views I'm giving may be controversial to the average us citizens media addled brains, but this is what people feel, these are the sorts of things I've been hearing. I'm not basing my opinion on my own feelings but on the feelings of those I talk to. Time for America to lose it's ball and chain, time to get a politically shrewd leader again. Like Tony I'd say Bush means well, but that's not the point, America needs strong leadership not a well meaning fool. Thank God that presidents get only two terms, thanks to Roosevelt for inadvertingly make your country enforce that one
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Post by montana99 on Mar 10, 2006 20:15:08 GMT -5
My Mastercard wish for today:
Sidhe Posts for March 11 & 12=0
PRICELESS !!!!
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Post by ajerzguy on Mar 11, 2006 2:05:45 GMT -5
1973 March 2 U.S. Ambassador to Sudan Cleo A. Noel and other diplomats were assassinated at the Saudi Arabian Embassy in Khartoum by members of the Black September organization.
1979 November 4 Iranian radicals seize the US Embassy in Tehran, taking sixty-six American diplomats hostage. The crisis continues until 20 January 1981 when the hostages are released by diplomatic means.
1983 Sixty three people, including the CIA's Middle East Director, are killed and 120 injured in a 400 lb. suicide truck bomb attack on the US Embassy in Beirut, Lebanon. The driver is killed. Responsibility is claimed by Islamic Jihad.
October 23 Simultaneous suicide truck bombs on American and French compounds in Beirut, Lebanon. A 12,000 lb bomb destroys a US Marine Corps base killing two hundred and forty one Americans; another fifty eight Frenchmen are killed when a 400 lb device destroys one of their bases. Islamic Jihad claims responsibility.
December 12 US Embassy in Kuwait targeted by Iraqi Shia terrorists who attempted to destroy the building with a truck bomb. The attack was foiled by guards and the device exploded in the Embassy fore-court killing five people.
1984 March 16 CIA station chief in Beirut, Lebanon, William Buckley, was kidnapped by the Iranian backed Islamic Jihad. He was tortured and then executed by his captors
September 20 Suicide bomb attack on US Embassy in East Beirut kills twenty three people and injures twenty one others. The US and British ambassadors were slightly injured in the explosion which was attributed to the Iranian backed Hezbollah group
1985 March 16 US journalist Terry Anderson is kidnapped in Beirut, Lebanon, by Iranian backed Islamic radicals. He is released in December 1991. June 9 US academic, Thomas Sutherland, at the American University, Beirut, Lebanon kidnapped by Islamic terrorists and held until November 18, 1991. June 14 A Trans World Airlines flight was hijacked en route to Rome from Athens by two Lebanese Hizballah terrorists and forced to fly to Beirut. The eight crew members and 145 passengers were held for 17 days, during which one American hostage, a U.S. Navy diver, was murdered. After being flown twice to Algiers, the aircraft was returned to Beirut after Israel released 435 Lebanese and Palestinian prisoners. September 12 US academic at the American University in Beirut, Joseph Cicippio, seized in Beirut by Iranian backed Islamic terrorists. He is released on December 1, 1991. October 7 Four Palestinian Liberation Front terrorists seized an Italian cruise liner in the eastern Mediterranean Sea, taking more than 700 hostages. One U.S. passenger was murdered before the Egyptian Government offered the terrorists safe haven in return for the hostages' freedom. October 21 American businessman Edward Tracy kidnapped in Lebanon by Islamic terrorists and held for almost five years until August 11, 1991.
1986 March 30 A Palestinian splinter group detonated a bomb as TWA Flight 840 approached Athens Airport, killing four U.S. citizens. April 5 Two U.S. soldiers were killed, and 79 American servicemen were injured in a Libyan bomb attack on a nightclub in West Berlin, West Germany.
1987 January 24 American citizens Jesse Turner and Alann Steen were seized in Beirut by Islamic terrorists. Turner was held until October 22, 1991 and Steen is released on 3 December 3, 1991.
1988 February 17 US Marine Corps Lieutenant Colonel W. Higgens, kidnapped and murdered by the Iranian backed Hezbollah while serving with the United Nations Truce Supervisory Organisation in southern Lebanon. April 14 The Organization of Jihad Brigades exploded a car bomb outside a USO Club in Naples, Italy, killing one U.S. sailor.
August 8 Pakistan president Zia Al Haq and US ambassador are killed, along with thirty seven other people, when a bomb explodes on a C-130 Hercules aircraft just after take off from Bahawalpu, Pakistan. December 21 Pan Am Boeing 747 blown up over Lockerbie, Scotland, by a bomb believed to have been placed on the aircraft at Frankfurt Airport, Germany. All 259 people on the aircraft were killed by the blast.
1993 February 26 World Trade Center in New York, USA, attacked by a massive bomb planted by Islamic terrorists. April 14 Iraqi intelligence service attempt to assassinate former US President, George Bush, during a visit to Kuwait.
1995 March 8 Two unidentified gunmen killed two U.S. diplomats and wounded a third in Karachi, Pakistan. July 4 In India, six foreigners, including two U.S. citizens, were taken hostage by Al-Faran, a Kashmiri separatist group. One non-U.S. hostage was later found beheaded. August 21 Hamas claimed responsibility for the detonation of a bomb in Jerusalem that killed six and injured over 100 persons, including several U.S. citizens. November 13 Seven foreigners, including a number of US servicemen, are killed in bomb attack on National Guard training center at Riyadh, Saudi Arabia.
1996 June 25 Islamic radical terrorists opposed to the western military presence in the Gulf region, explode a truck bomb next to a USAF housing area at Dhahran, Saudi Arabia, killing 19 American servicemen and 385 injuring more.
November 1 In Sudan, a breakaway group from the Sudanese People's Liberation Army (SPLA) kidnapped three International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) workers, including a U.S. citizen, an Australian, and a Kenyan. On December 9, the rebels released the hostages in exchange for ICRC supplies and a health survey for their camp.
1997 February 23 A Palestinian gunman opened fire on tourists at an observation deck atop the Empire State Building in New York City, killing a Danish national and wounding visitors from the United States, Argentina, Switzerland, and France before turning the gun on himself. A handwritten note carried by the gunman claimed this was a punishment attack against the "enemies of Palestine."
October 30 Al-Sha'if tribesmen kidnapped a U.S. businessman near Sanaa. The tribesmen sought the release of two fellow tribesmen who were arrested on smuggling charges and several public works projects they claim the government promised them. They released the hostage on November 27. November 12 Two unidentified gunmen shot to death four U.S. auditors from Union Texas Petroleum Corporation and their Pakistani driver after they drove away from the Sheraton Hotel in Karachi. The Islami Inqilabi Council, or Islamic Revolutionary Council, claimed responsibility in a call to the U.S. Consulate in Karachi. In a letter to Pakistani newspapers, the Aimal Khufia Action Committee also claimed responsibility.
1998 August 7 US Embassies in Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar-es-Salem, Tanzania, heavily damaged by massive bomb attacks. US intelligence blames Islamic groups linked to Saudi dissident Osama Bin Laden. December 28 Yemini militants kidnap a group of western tourists, including 12 Britons, 2 Americans, and 2 Australians on the main road to Aden. Four victims were killed during a rescue attempt the next day.
2000 August 12 In the Kara-Su Valley, the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan took four U.S. citizens hostage. The Americans escaped on August 12.
October 12 In Aden, Yemen, a small dingy carrying explosives rammed the destroyer U.S.S. Cole, killing 17 sailors and injuring 39 others. Supporters of Usama Bin Ladin were suspected. December 30 A bomb exploded in a plaza across the street from the U.S. embassy in Manila, injuring nine persons. The Moro Islamic Liberation Front is allegedly responsible.
2001
September 11 Two hijacked airliners crashed into the twin towers of the World Trade Center. Soon thereafter, the Pentagon was struck by a third hijacked plane. A fourth hijacked plane, suspected to be bound for a high-profile target in Washington, crashed into a field in southern Pennsylvania. More than 3,000 U.S. citizens and other nationals were killed. President Bush and Cabinet officials indicated that Usama Bin Laden was the prime suspect and that they considered the United States in a state of war with international terrorism.
Just the Facts, these are only those that can be connected to Muslims. Anyone want to do the math? I'm willing to wager it's more than 3,000. A list of others will be provided upon request.
With the power of the internet and a search engine even a moron can find the facts. To bad the so called intellectuals can't. Any intellectual that requires assistance in learning I offer my time.
JerZ
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Post by Sidhe on Mar 11, 2006 5:05:49 GMT -5
OK genius now connect Sadaam Husein to acts of terrorism in the west. And your point is. My point is the world hates you, your point is? f**king God alone knows, what, where why, when was the point of that. I know the history of America fairly well, I'm telling you what people think of you, why would I need to run thorugh the facts about how they show it? Utterly bewilderingly pointless post. The world hates and has hated your governement, you yourself have explained why and what they have done to show you? Like I said in the first post the hatred doesn't exist in a vacuum, honestly I have no idea what point you were trying to make with the last post other than the point that you could wholesale miss the point of the previous post. This is no doubt precisely why the world hates the US. Can't listen and wont listen. And of course everything you do is right. It's the conceit that annoys the most no doubt. I think after that last post if I were a muslim I'd join black september Europe hates your government, the rest of the world hates your government, your own people hate your government, do you not think that this might be a sign that your government sucks big time or maybe not huh My Mastercard wish for today: Sidhe Posts for March 11 & 12=0 PRICELESS !!!! This is what I don't understand people hate everything I say but they carry on reading it? Are you stupid? If you don't like it don't read it, you have an ability to chose you know. Or maybe in the last election having to pick between two idiots confused you on this issue?
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Post by MMV on Mar 11, 2006 6:08:27 GMT -5
and which british government is it (according to you) that falls in-line behind the US during our little forays into the arena of failed world politics which provides you with so much disdain? Accordingly, the last time your government had a leader with ba11z was MThatcher. Facts, ya gotta' love them and if you disagree - oh my - I can only offer you these small words of advice: Are you stupid? If you don't like it don't read it, you have an ability to chose you know. Your inability to make a claritive point is only balanced by your inability to understand one. Maybe it's time to put on that little hat with the light built into it.
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Post by Sidhe on Mar 11, 2006 9:17:27 GMT -5
and which british government is it (according to you) that falls in-line behind the US during our little forays into the arena of failed world politics which provides you with so much disdain? Accordingly, the last time your government had a leader with ba11z was MThatcher. Facts, ya gotta' love them and if you disagree - oh my - I can only offer you these small words of advice: Are you stupid? If you don't like it don't read it, you have an ability to chose you know. Your inability to make a claritive point is only balanced by your inability to understand one. Maybe it's time to put on that little hat with the light built into it. OH MY GOD, I ALREADY SAID I HAVE NO CONTROL OR REGARD OVER THE MORONIC DECISIONS OF MY GOVERNMENT, ARE YOU REALLY COMPARING MY OPINIONS AND THOSE OF OTHER COUNTRIES TO THAT OF MY GOVERNMENT! I THINK YOU NEED MORE THAN A HAT WITH ALIGHT BULB ON IT YOU NEED A CLUE TOO*HELLO LOOO LO OOOOOOOOOOOOO is there anybody in there? *CAPATILISED AND BOLDED SO THAT MMV WITH HIS SHORT SIGHTEDNESS CAN READ IT THIS TIME SO I DONT HAVE TO MAKE THE SAME POINT AGAIN AND AGAIN SEVERAL HUNDRED TIMES
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Post by scoobyntn on Mar 11, 2006 14:47:06 GMT -5
I've been working for a large Dutch owned financial organization for the last 10 years. Our building houses a fairly diverse work force of over 1,000 employees. Most days, some people will take a short afternoon walk on a mile long boardwalk ringing a small pond behind our building. We do it primarily for exercise and to relieve stress. By myself on a recent walk, nearing the end of the boardwalk I noticed a man wearing a headdress and a long black beard approach from the opposite direction. My first thought was how unusual it was to see someone wearing a headdress (it's just not something I see every day). Second was an assumption about how hot is must be to wear one. Right about then, years of "unbalanced" western media coverage and heated conversations by the water cooler kicked in... Could this guy be scouting my employer as a potential target for terrorism??? After all, a Dutch owned financial institution with over 1,000 "infidels" in the heart of a heavily traveled Amercan tourist destination!? Believe it or not, for a split second, I actually concentrated on his clothing for signs of an explosives belt. Now some of you might be outraged by my reaction, others might find it completely understandable, particularly considering the state of the world these days. Maybe a few of you might be thinking... If it were me, I'd "Captain Kirk" his ass! (shoot first and ask questions later) but this isn't your story. It's mine. As I got got closer to him, I began to feel ashamed for not being able to immediately see past this person's appearance. I thought... What gives me the right to believe he has the potential for violence based solely on my perception that he is an arab, a muslim, or both? As I passed by him, I made eye contact and did exactly what I do to most others I see walking on the boardwalk. I smiled, and simply said "Hi". Sliding my access card over the card reader, I began to feel the weight of fast approaching deadlines again. Before completely committing myself to finishing out my 8 hours of savage amusement, I came to the realization that I, and many others like me, are in grave danger. Not the kind of danger that comes from a bomb or the end of a rifle barrel, but the danger that lies in racism and prejudice. Perhaps the damage has already been done, but if I can recognize it for what it is, I'm positive I can turn it around before its too late. Can you?
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Post by MMV on Mar 11, 2006 16:44:15 GMT -5
exactly, lol!
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Post by Sidhe on Mar 11, 2006 16:51:31 GMT -5
OK want to make another idiotic post were you snip my comments and take them out of context, or will you admit that everyone thinks your government are morons, including most of your own people: no, didn't think so. Good job there, now for his next moronic post he'll try and persuade the rest of the world we like his government. Grow up child Debate is about making good points not acting infantile and resorting to insult, I'm telling you the truth about what people think or say, if you find that insulting, then you have a lot to learn. Truly MMV has excelled in making himself look stupid, for his next trick he will pull some triite blandishment about my government out of his arse, in order to convince himself that the rest of the world detests the US government somewhat less. If you want to argue tell me why our opinions are wrong? I've seen nothing so far to convince me that the opinions of the world in general aren't spot on? Come on you can do better put some effort into it?
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Post by MMV on Mar 11, 2006 23:25:06 GMT -5
Are you stupid? If you don't like it don't read it, you have an ability to chose you know.
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Post by ajerzguy on Mar 11, 2006 23:26:02 GMT -5
Sidhe, I'd appreciate it if you took your insults elsewhere. If you don't have something constructive to add to the spirit of the thread post elsewhere.
Personally I could care less how you feel about how my government is being run. I could care less how your government is being run.
I can care even less how you feel about yourself. When you start calling people that don't agree with "morons" it only shows your immaturity.
Be constructive or be quiet.
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Post by Sidhe on Mar 12, 2006 4:11:27 GMT -5
I called your government morons and MMV is the one acting like a child, now he's taken to sticking his fngers in his ears and saying lah lah lah.
Is this lack of undestanding typical of Americans? I have insulted only your government, MMV is making himself look stupid, but then that's MMV about as sharp as a button, kindly do me the decency of reading the post, or if you don't like what your reading like MMV, stick your fingers in your ears close your eyes and say lah lah lah very loudly. OK I've meade my point, we all hate your government OK, and I bet your still wondering why? You yourself have answered that better than I ever could. MMV is a sheep. The louder he bleats the less people listen.
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Post by ajerzguy on Mar 12, 2006 11:28:43 GMT -5
I called your government morons and MMV is the one acting like a child, now he's taken to sticking his fngers in his ears and saying lah lah lah. Is this lack of undestanding typical of Americans? I have insulted only your government, MMV is making himself look stupid, but then that's MMV about as sharp as a button, kindly do me the decency of reading the post, or if you don't like what your reading like MMV, stick your fingers in your ears close your eyes and say lah lah lah very loudly. OK I've meade my point, we all hate your government OK, and I bet your still wondering why? You yourself have answered that better than I ever could. MMV is a sheep. The louder he bleats the less people listen. Ok Sidhe, I know what I have read in some of your posts. Apparently you don't remember what you typed. Here are a few of your words (not mine): "This is what I don't understand people hate everything I say but they carry on reading it? Are you stupid"? "Good job there, now for his next moronic post he'll try and persuade the rest of the world we like his government. Grow up child". "How can you tell us anything, you colonialist barbarians, ignorance pure ignorance. STFU and listen you morons"! "If you think your winning the war on terror than your more stupid than you appear". The terrorism that has been listed since 1973 against the US is for one reason, "The support the US shows toward Israel", nothing more nothing less. There are those within the States and the World that try to lay blame on other reasons such as; colonialism, imperialism, and oil to name a few. But again it comes down to the radical Muslim mantra of eliminating Israel and Jews. Who are these people? Syrians, Palestinians, Iranians and yes Saddam. You say there is no link to Saddam. You ask for proof. I offer you these tidbits; In Tulkarm, one of the poorest towns on the West Bank, a member of the Palestinian Legislative Council handed out the checks from Saddam. The payments have been made for at least two years, but the amount has suddenly jumped up by $15,000 — a bonus for the families of martyrs, to reward those taking part in the escalating war against Israel. "I can confirm that after the events of September 11, 2001, and up to the military operation in Iraq, Russian special services and Russian intelligence several times received ... information that official organs of Saddam's regime were preparing terrorist acts on the territory of the United States and beyond its borders, at U.S. military and civilian locations," Putin said. Is it possible that he was using monies from his illegal "oil for food" transactions to fund these rewards? Remember the scud missles launched against Israel during the 1st Gulf War. Israel had no involvement whatsoever in the war. Yet they were attacked. They stayed out of the fray due to the diplomatic efforts of the US. From 1973 to 2001 there were 6 US presidents, the ones that were considered hawkish were; Ford (73-76,1), Reagan (81-88,13), and the 2 Bushes (89-92/01-present,18). During their administrations there were a total of 32 attacks. The present Bush is credited with only 9/11 which really should be credited to Clinton. His only saving grace is that his 8th year had ended his term. The so called peaceful presidents were; Carter (77-80,1), and Clinton (93-00,41). The number of terrorist attacks carried out while they were in office equals 42. Carter is only credited with the taking of the hostages in Iran. That leaves 41 during Clinton's 8 years. By the way 9/11 wasn't counted. The point here is that non retaliation did not curtail the number of attacks. As a matter of fact it emboldened the terrorists since the knew we would not respond. Now I take into consideration your age (i doubt that you have yet to reach the ripe age of 20 yet). I also take into consideration the revisionist history that you may have been taught. I can't blame you since had you been taught that 1+1=3 then that's all you know. Your youth tends to cause you to have more liberal thoughts. But as you age you will become more conservative in your views. Trust me it will happen. This is a place of debate and ideas, try to keep the personal attacks out of it. It is only human nature to defend ones self either physically or intellectually. One last thing if for some reason a link has been not relayed properly there is a way. Just go to www.goggle.com and type in the keys words, IE "terrorism against US".
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Post by Sidhe on Mar 12, 2006 11:45:44 GMT -5
Im 33 and I'm a liberal, not an american liberal but an English one I.e halfway between the political left and the right. Completely different from what you would call a liberal which in the US is also right wing. I am neither a socialist nor a conservative but somewhere in between I suspect I always will be too. As a kid I was actually quite conservative, but then I grew up and realised at hear conservatism at least in this country at the time was about being a selfish money hungry fool pretty much, and having little regard for your fellow man, as that didn't agree with my principles and neither did socialism(too much socialism is costly and not sustainable or even realistic given that alot of people are selfish and or easily corruptable) I kinda drifted into the centre. And I believe MMV is in his late 40's or early 50's go figure lol How old did you think MMV is anyway he acts like a teenager half the time too. But then he's on your side en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osama_bin_Ladenwww.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/binladen/who/interview.htmlErm I don't think so. I think you'll find terrorism against america is not just because of Israel, this is what I was talking about in reference to seeing things through rose tinted spectacles. Osamah never refers gives any acknowledgemnt or cares to much about Israel palestinian dispute other than that Jewish influence in American government might be the reason for attacks on muslim countries plus of course America supplies Jews with the weapons to attack muslims. Extremism existed long before Israel did and America and Englands mishandling of the entire area is the cause for the fire, I suspect throwing more oil at the fire is your only solution. Osamahs reasons for hating america are primarily and in the main the attacks against muslim countries, he is defending Islam as he sees it. Israel is fairly irelevant other than it obviously is against the muslims. The reason for the war was said to be links to 9/11 and WMD both of which were later proved to be nonsense. The war was to do with money more than Saddam and to oil more than a war on terror, that's just blatantly obvious. Getting rid of Saddam was just an added bonus. The links to Al Queyeda are pretty dubious as well, he may have had a nodding relationship with them, in the enemy of my enemy is my firend terms but I've yet to see any convincing evidence that his links were any more than some small mutual support or a support of attacks on the US www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A47812-2004Jun16.htmlI predict this lack of political moxie in the government is just a consequence of inheriting a bad situtaion, and then doing about as much as you could to make it worse, and that the lack of political moxie in it's people is something to do with the spoon fed media garbage your forced to endure most of the time(instead of wheat from chaff it's hard sometimes to tell if there's any wheat at all, there is but it's often stuff from other unbiased countries and ocasionaly in your less gov sponsered media) And your ability only to remember the good things and to dismiss the troubling stuff. As for MMV I tihnk he lives in a world of his own personally. He probably would vote Bush in again given the chance.
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Post by ajerzguy on Mar 12, 2006 16:23:39 GMT -5
Your total lack of insight, and closed mindedness renders any opinion you may have, insignificant.
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Post by Sidhe on Mar 12, 2006 19:09:01 GMT -5
We all hate your governement your failure to understand this and respond to my post demonstrates this. Using Israel as a excuse for incompetence when both England and the US created it is a vicous circle, your pointless diatribes are but meaningless banter and you know it. we create the problem and then blame the problem on our own solution to the problem, honestly how redundent is that argument, and how without sense is it? I feel a get out of that one Rommel moment coming on. Jesus your digging your own grave here all the politics of the last 50 years has been created by our utter lack of political understanding, by mistakes and stupidity and yet still we are all without blame. Nice Let's make this understandable the English and the US create a state that removes Arabs form teritorial land they've held for thousands of years, then they complain, then we politically balls up for 50 years then we blame it on the Arabs, yes well done. Then of course we fail to understand why everyone hates Israel who are Arabs, then we suport them and make the situation worse, then we invade Arab lands making them even more angry, then we use their terrorism that we ourselves fueled as an excuse to justify all sorts of nonsense, can you really not see why they're pissed off? Or what? And for the last 7 years can you really see why we're fed up of this circular bull.s.hit?
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Post by montana99 on Mar 12, 2006 21:24:20 GMT -5
Sidhe, you are nothing more than a mote in God's eye.
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Post by ajerzguy on Mar 12, 2006 22:44:23 GMT -5
We all hate your governement your failure to understand this and respond to my post demonstrates this. Using Israel as a excuse for incompetence when both England and the US created it is a vicous circle, your pointless diatribes are but meaningless banter and you know it. we create the problem and then blame the problem on our own solution to the problem, honestly how redundent is that argument, and how without sense is it? Britain and the US did not create the problem. We are responding to it. I feel a get out of that one Rommel moment coming on. Jesus your digging your own grave here all the politics of the last 50 years has been created by our utter lack of political understanding, by mistakes and stupidity and yet still we are all without blame. Nice ? Political understanding? Are you proposing that the world eradicate the State of Israel and give it to the Arabs? If not, then what is your solution? Let's make this understandable the English and the US create a state that removes Arabs form teritorial land they've held for thousands of years, then they complain, then we politically balls up for 50 years then we blame it on the Arabs, yes well done. Then of course we fail to understand why everyone hates Israel who are Arabs, then we suport them and make the situation worse, then we invade Arab lands making them even more angry, then we use their terrorism that we ourselves fueled as an excuse to justify all sorts of nonsense, can you really not see why they're pissed off? Or what? And for the last 7 years can you really see why we're fed up of this circular bull.s.hit? The world through the UN created the State of Israel in 1949. Not the US and England. The Palestinians have been offered their own state. They refuse and with the aid and assistance of other Arab states will only be satisfied with the elimination of the Jews. The Jews have been there as long as the Muslims. Sidhe, your passion for Arabs and disdain for the US can be tolerated. Your support of the eradication of a race and a recognized State are not. Since you use the pronoun "we" when referring to Arabs can we assume you are? If you are, that certainly puts everything in a different light. And if you are that passionate about it, shouldn't you join their cause? All I'm asking from you is to use facts. Do some research to support your position. The use of generalities does not reinforce your position at all.
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Post by Sidhe on Mar 13, 2006 4:07:51 GMT -5
No I am not an Arab, the mismanagement of the area originally by the british then by the UN is pretty woeful. Take a state of about 2/3 paletinians and hand it over to Israel. Turf palestinians off there traditional homelands then spend 50 years turning a blind eye to Israels agressive grabs of land in those areas, you honestly with a straight face can tell me for the past 50 years the US has impartialy mediated the area?
And the offers that are made are not acceptable to the Palestinians, which is not really that surprising because neither side it seems is really willing to talk to the other, Israel just uses peace it seems to politicaly maneuver and Palestine will probably only be happy with a Palestinian state that has lands obtained after the formation of Israel, Israel is unwilling to give up .
The fact is the original deal was incredibly unfair to the inhabitants of Palestine, which was an Arab state with populations of Jews living it which was given to the Jews so that it became a Jewish state populated by small numbers of Palestinians, most of which had already chosen to leave, this is real genius and probably stems from post holocaust sympathies.
The situation is a difficult one but instead of trying to play the diplomacy game the US makes accusations of Sadamms links to 9/11 and to owning WMD which all prove to have no basis in fact to take out Sadaam Hussein and further inflames the area(something I personally believe was done with the full knowledge of the lack of supporting evidence of WMD or links to 9/11 by both the UK and US) Whilst I understand the area is a difficult one what I can't understand is why the current American political machine keeps adovcating winding up Arabs, making threats and generally destabalizing the whole area further. Now it's threatening Iran, what do you propose that the US withdraws form Iraq into Iran thus killing two birds with one stone?
Whilst I can understand the difficulty of making decisions in the area, what I can't undestand is why for 50 years the whole situation hasn't improved. It would have probably all resolved itself by now if you weren't there and that's the point maybe you should stop mouthing off at Arab countries and threatening them, and start using some actual diplomacy instead of throwing your weight around?
At the very least it might be a good idea to stop threatening to invade countries every five minutes? Huh, dya reckon that might be an idea? 15 years ago I would of had sympathy for the plight of the US in the middle East now, no, take an already incendiary situation and make it worse? Not Big and not clever IMO.
You can keep on trying to justify the mistakes of recent history but I'm somewhat tired of the BS the US has used to grab oil and to destabilize the region, it just seems idiotic. And I really have very little respect for your current government, a sentiment shared by most of your country and the rest of the world, this is why everyone hates your government, are you getting it yet?
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Post by Sidhe on Mar 13, 2006 18:38:24 GMT -5
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