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Post by tamijo on Nov 5, 2006 11:39:59 GMT -5
I never played an OOC game, but as i see a few off them in lobby i thought someone might give away a few tips for the OCC, firsttimer. It sounds to me that it must be a very "luckbased" game due to the resourse distribution, but that might be because i dont know the gametype. ?
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[KC]Bopper
Worker
The Knight Who Says 'Giddy-Up!'
Posts: 136
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Post by [KC]Bopper on Nov 5, 2006 22:33:45 GMT -5
If the map is a c4f style map (or the OCCMOD map) you will be assured of all basic resources for each player. That takes away the 'luck' issue. OCC games can become wonder-races but there is always the likelihood of a massive attack coming your way. Just like any other game, you have to balance between racking up points or defending yourself against instant death. Usually a good idea to avoid the Imperialist trait as it has no real benefit in a one city game.
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Post by tamijo on Nov 6, 2006 14:26:41 GMT -5
Thanks mate, the OOC map thing makes me wanna give it a try.
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Post by notagoodname on Nov 6, 2006 17:43:52 GMT -5
The only traits that i would bother with are industrious, financial and spiritual. Expansionist is also decent in that it allows you to grow a little more, get a granary very early and get a second worker very early. Charismatic is pointless as happiness is easy to solve. When you think about the exponential cost of great people philosophicals double great people points actually only gives you 1 more great person in the long run and is a bit overrated because of that.
Best wonder combo in occ is pyramids and globe theatre imho. The pyramids lets you use representation and universal sufferage as needed and the globe theatre stops all unhappiness which lets you switch out of heriditary rule. Great library also rules, if you have marble nearby go the great library->parthenon->national epic route and rake in the scientists. If you have stone go for the pyramids.
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Post by diadem on Dec 9, 2006 4:56:37 GMT -5
Actually Phillosophical is the best trait by far for OCC games. Assuming the turn limit is not too strict.
OCC is all about optimizing one single city (doh!). The best way to do this is by having lots and lots of great people, and settling them. Don't use them frivorously for lightbulbing or shrines. Use one scientist for an academy, use a few engineers for the really key wonders. All other specialists should be settled.
Pyramids are great, Great Library is great. But if you do not get these not all is lost. Any wonder that generates engineer, scientist or prophet points is useful. Even if wonders benefits make no sense. If you do not get any wonders, rely on specialists. If you don't get any wonders *and* do not have good food, then it it time to despair.
Spiritual is a very good trait, because of the flexibility it gives. Charismatic is nice on higher difficulties (which alas is almost never played. Imho ppl should play on deity more often) because the extra happiness really helps you start faster. Expansionist is decent, aggressive as well, I guess. Financial is one of the worst possible traits, only slightly better than organized. It's useless! You're gonna work at most 21 tiles during the entire game. Most of those will be farms, mines or resource-specials. So it's useless!
In fact, cottages are useless. Screw 'em. Build farms and run extra specialists. Forests are both awesome and problematic. The health bonus is really great later on, and lumbermills are the best tile improvements out there, but by not cutting them you probably fall behind too much at the start. Also you don't want enemies hiding in your forests getting that nasty +50% def. So I'm actually not sure about them. Obviously you want to cut a few forests at the start, but if you have a lot of them, leaving 3-4 for later might not be such a bad idea.
One more thing: Avoid artists! They really suck. Refrain from building any artist anhancing wonders. No Taj Mahal! Don't do it! The one big exception is the National Epic. You always want this one up asap. The other possible exception is the Globe Theatre if you have Pyramids. If you failed to get the pyramids, go for hereditary rule instead though, and build units for happiness.
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Post by churchill1 on Dec 9, 2006 6:22:10 GMT -5
I definitely notice the difference when I'm not philisophical. May be it does result in just one extra per game, but you get the ones you do sooner. I think Diadem mentioned this, in fact he writes a lot fo good stuff, but you should really make every specialist into a super specialist. The only exception being the first scientist for an academy and may be engineers for world wonders. Expansive is handy. I actually like to make a few workers. In medieval and classical that can be key for grabbing Great Library and Pyramids. The extra health is super dooper. As for national epic and globe theatre. You should really try and avoid these. If you can make it so that you are guaranteed either an engineer or scientist (in pre industrial starts scientists are more preferable) then that's great. NE and GT might only add 1 GPP each but they count as a source, therefore artists becomes a significant likelihood. In fact in some games where I have got the GL and ran a lot of scientists I have been super unlucky and got mostly artists, which are frankly garbage . Having said that globe theatre will probably become essential a certain number of turns into the game. Although I might just make the theatre at first and run at 10 or 20% culture in order to keep happy. If you are running a solely specialist economy then this hardly effects your science rate at all. It seems to me that balancing farms (for specialists) and cottages will result in the best teching.
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Post by civerdan on Dec 9, 2006 9:39:57 GMT -5
Argh..I was in a OCC classical where I died because one neighbor bulds nothing but units from the get go. Ruining his own score in the process. Is there a why to combat this without lsosing out of score in order to defend?
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Post by yilar on Dec 9, 2006 10:32:51 GMT -5
Argh..I was in a OCC classical where I died because one neighbor bulds nothing but units from the get go. Ruining his own score in the process. Is there a why to combat this without lsosing out of score in order to defend? No, and this is why occ cton sucks. OCC duels or OCC teamers sound fair, but these occ ctons are all but fair. 80% of the people are building crap wonders or some other point crap and the last 20% build units and kill people, the 20% people never finish first, but never last either. It's usually the people without stone/marble that start killing people, since they got no chance to build the useless point buildings quick.
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Post by Tony on Dec 9, 2006 10:48:00 GMT -5
agree, OCC was a fun change when it first came out, it still makes a nice change once in a while. But those that play it as the game of choice just suck at the real game IMO!
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Post by diadem on Dec 9, 2006 14:05:57 GMT -5
You should try some OCC singleplayer. One of the most fun way to play singleplayer. Since the computer does not limit itself to 1 city it's a real challenge (In fact that's why it's called One City Challenge, because in SP it's a lot harder).
I don't think it's inherently easier than non-OCC. In the same way that draughts is not easier than chess, even though the rules are simpler. In OCC you only have to manage one city, but in order to be succesful you have to become *really* good at managing that single city.
And ofcourse an aggressive neighbour can screw you up pretty awfully. But well I guess that's true for any setting. OCC is much more dependent on a good starting position than non-OCC. I guess that's a major disadvantage.
And yeah you need a lot of workers even in OCC. I don't mean dozens, but 4-6 once the game is through the initial phase is a minimum. Improve your entire fat cross, then automate them to improve your trade network (the 2nd option). They will hook up resources outside your fat cross, and spam roads everywhere, which is exactly perfect.
About the wonders and artists issue: The Globe Theatre can usually be avoided if you are running hereditary rule. Consider that a 'bonus' of failing to get the pyramids. Of course once you research conscription (if your game lasts that long) you will probably have to build it after all, but by that time GPP production starts to slow anyway.
The national epic is a must have building though, even if it generates artist points. That 100% GPP points is more important than the artist pollution. If a building gives you 2 extra GP, who cares if one of them is an artist?
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Post by alice on Dec 9, 2006 14:17:41 GMT -5
whats the earlyest era yone should worry about nukes ?
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Post by diadem on Dec 9, 2006 15:39:25 GMT -5
Ancient In games without a turn limit at least. But I recently played a classical game with turn limit (150 iirc) where someone almost reached nukes. And in Medieval or Ren starts they are certainly reachable.
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Post by churchill1 on Dec 9, 2006 15:49:47 GMT -5
Argh..I was in a OCC classical where I died because one neighbor bulds nothing but units from the get go. Ruining his own score in the process. Is there a why to combat this without lsosing out of score in order to defend? I would say no, I was thinking the only way to combat this is uberrush him rigth at the start and choke him, so you can concentrate on building up ur own city. I was really glad u were next to this guy and not me ;D. He killed 2 more guys but his end score was nuts.
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Post by DrShot on Dec 9, 2006 17:09:42 GMT -5
The c4f map takes out the 'luck' element. - not really. I have had on multiple occasions cities that top out at 14 or lower population with only irragation. Well, time to kill imo...or just concede. worried about neighbors, what do you do in a 'normal' game. hopefully you send out a scout(a unit realistically) to loiter in ones land and keep you updated. wow I see he has only 5 unit in the city, he is going for score... try checking the powergraph more than twice a game! try a sentry net(new concept for many)! try making an army and just killin anyway, you may like it, killin is fun I don't agree with the no huts all irragation and only this or never that trait... not going into it though. if the game was static and always the same, well I doubt we would play at all: boring!
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Post by churchill1 on Dec 10, 2006 13:30:05 GMT -5
The c4f map takes out the 'luck' element. - not really. I have had on multiple occasions cities that top out at 14 or lower population with only irragation. Sorry Shot, I find this incredibly hard to believe.
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Post by diadem on Dec 10, 2006 13:46:37 GMT -5
I don't think I ever said 'all irrigation'. I just said no cottages. Production is important as well though, very important. In singleplayer I usually spam lumbermills everwhere. In multiplayer that won't work. If you have lots of river tiles then watermills can be nice.
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Post by deityrush on Dec 11, 2006 10:59:16 GMT -5
I usually head straight to engineering, but build roads to enemy cities while the preparations for war are starting. Then I attack em with mac, trebs, pikes. I bring along some chariots for pillaging duty and use the gold generated for tech or upgrade purposes. I usually kill about 2-3 capital cities this way.
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Post by diadem on Dec 11, 2006 11:00:36 GMT -5
Do you ever win? Or do you just finish 3rd last with 2 people below you only because they are dead?
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Post by deityrush on Dec 11, 2006 11:02:56 GMT -5
Usually there is another Warlord in the game, so we take 1st and 2nd place. Then its a staring match, figuring whether should we attack each other or not. BTW I try to get Oracle ASAP to get Metal Casting cheap.. then make forges. It also speeds up the rush to engineering.
Lately I have been experiment with rushing the first city with axes,swords, spears and cats. Then use the gold from the first city pillage to upgrade them to macs.
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Post by diadem on Dec 11, 2006 11:27:29 GMT -5
Ok, so not an entirely early rush then But that's always the problem in FFA and CTON games isn't it. People who focus on military usually end up in the middle of the pack, while people who focus on growth usually end up either on top, or dead. With OCC it's worse because you can't expand into all that nice land your opponent so kindly vacated. Nevertheless the aggressive approach is a lot of fun
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