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Post by amirsan on Jun 25, 2006 1:00:05 GMT -5
In which ways, specifically, do you tend to lose most of your games? Are you out-scored? Simply invaded, and/or choked? What about when you were a beginner, and how did you make an effort to prevent whatever from happening again?
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Post by deyreepher on Jun 25, 2006 13:05:34 GMT -5
What kind of games are we talking about? Teamers or Ctons?
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Post by KCwillthec on Jun 25, 2006 14:30:23 GMT -5
If i dont lose to score, its usually because I am at war, then a 2nd, sometimes even 3rd invader hits and it is too much to deal with all at once.
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Post by amirsan on Jun 25, 2006 19:18:45 GMT -5
I'm mostly talking about CTON, but this question can apply to teamers too.
KC, what do you usually do if someone is 100 or 200 points ahead of you in the game, and you have about 40 turns left?
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Post by tommynt on Jun 25, 2006 20:41:34 GMT -5
some dumb teammate is responsibly for 80-90% of my looses for sure
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Post by Ellestar on Jun 26, 2006 1:22:55 GMT -5
Teamers:
FIRST PLACE BY FAR: Some noob (or several of them) die or don't do what asked and we lose or some noob loses all units in a stupid way... That includes both real newbies (new players/new teamer players), high-ranked noobs and noobs who played as many games as me...
2nd place: Bad teamplay in our team. It comes to a 1st place in a top teamers without newbies.
3rd place: Sometimes unlucky random for our team.
4th place: I made some mistakes. I made mistakes in every game, but recently i very rarely make mistakes that make our team lose. Also, sometimes it's just a lack of experience (different map/era) or unlucky guess on what will happen later and what opponents will do.
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Post by churchill1 on Jun 26, 2006 4:44:54 GMT -5
some dumb teammate is responsibly for 80-90% of my looses for sure LOL I'm not sure this is what amirsan was looking for. Having said that, Amirsan, your question isn't very clear. I think it is a bit too non-specific, but if you do have any specific questions I and others would be more than happy to help you out. I presume you are just looking for tips to make urself an unbeatable player. If so, good for you. ;D. In terms of points check out anoth thread here, I think it's title is pretty self-explanatory.
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Post by Bantams on Jun 26, 2006 5:55:54 GMT -5
Usually i just dont get enough points (still dont know why) and probably dont build enough cities normally i only manage 3 cities in cton inland sea anc or classic games
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Post by Ellestar on Jun 26, 2006 6:42:52 GMT -5
In which ways, specifically, do you tend to lose most of your games? Are you out-scored? Simply invaded, and/or choked? What about when you were a beginner, and how did you make an effort to prevent whatever from happening again? Hmm if you want to improve your gameplay, first improve your economy. Try some quick tests in single, read some articles on forums (here is my list of good links civ4players.proboards44.com/index.cgi?board=gstad&action=display&thread=1128354514#1149525371). If you have a good economy you can win ctons with ease. If you economy sucks you'll not win them anyway. I doubt that you can train it in an efficient way in multiplayer (no reloads to check different approaches under the same conditions, turns are too slow so to test fast and yet you may not enough time to calculate something when you really need it). So just do some test runs in singleplayer (not a complete games but just a very quick tests ignoring diplomacy, war etc.) If you want to learn how to deal with invasions and choking, set autosaves to 1 autosave every turn and at least 150 autosaves maximum. As a bonus, you can watch what others do if they don't set password or use a default '1' or '2' (common in teamers). Then, you can load autosave after a game and you'll have a plenty of time to decide where you moved wrong, how you should have moved, how many units you should have had so to be able to defend (also watch power graph) etc. Just think about all possible move sequences 3-4 turns deep, including possible fast moves (think for both sides) - it should be enough. And make some conclusions on what you should do later (when there are similar terrain patterns etc.). That way you'll learn fast instead of making the same mistakes in every game. Don't forget to use efficient moves you saw against your opponents. Besides, you can use same approach when you optimize your workers - if you have a lot of them (and you should in later era teamers) you need to make decisions fast with each worker so if you don't have some patterns based on your previous experience you can't do it fast and efficient enough. Same goes with strategic decisions - after a game you can load autosaves and decide what you did wrong and what you should have done in which conditions. So, you must make some decisions based on previous game that may be useful for you in your later games. Don't forget a Combat Explained article. There is a link to my combat calculator in that article (it shows chance vs multiple units). Also, note the efficiency of collateral damage. forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=137615In a combat calculator check 'chances vs multiple units' and press 'calculate', better use Internet Explorer - JavaScript works faster in it. Don't cancel calculation if you'll get a popup window saying that it's possibly frozen - calculation may take some time (JavaScript is slow). Then you may format a resulting table in Excel and print if you want (it's useful to have it handy while in a game).
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Post by Elledge on Jun 26, 2006 6:55:07 GMT -5
That's the best advice on these forums I've ever seen.
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Post by amirsan on Jun 26, 2006 19:36:28 GMT -5
Thanks for the replies everyone! Thats funny because I think I almost had the same problem in one teamer. Fortunately, the other team had a dropout and the frontman on the other side staged a successful attack, but we had a noob on the other front side who would simply not even discuss or listen to what needed to be done. He saw a stack of troops coming near his army and started to panick and lash out at us to build troops (note this is classical game, so our footsoldiers would have taken atleast 10 turns to get there). Oh well, atleast we won though. churchill1, yes probably I wasn't too clear, but what I am trying to see is how other players have improved from their mistakes and have improved the way they played the game based on past losses. Ellestar's post is pretty much exactly what I am looking for. Excellent advice Ellestar! Economy is most definately something I've been having some trouble with, since I find myself not being able to keep up the speed with technology in the late game. As for your other tips, yes, I will definately keep that in mind. I feel that I have improved much more after reading some posts here and getting some advice from fellow ladder members, especially on how to deal with stack attacks. Just takes some more experience and practice perhaps.
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Post by deyreepher on Jun 26, 2006 20:23:50 GMT -5
Ellestar hit a key point when it comes to workers. Know in advance what you want to do with your workers. Usually, at the start of games you'll have time to plan out where you want to build your cities. If you know what you want to emphasize with the city, it'll make it all the easier to know what kind of land improvements you need to create with your worker. Never automate your workers unless you automate it to create trade routes (roads).
Otherwise, if I have no more improvements that I need at the moment, I'll always road. Road that front.
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Post by Necrominousss on Jun 26, 2006 22:06:42 GMT -5
My two greatest cton defeats happened early in the game when I attack a warrior with 3 of my warriors and lost leaving my city empty for capture. It happened to me twice so no longer do that. I figure 3 vs one, even fortified on forest, was a sure victory, but I can attest, it is surely not.
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Post by Gogf on Jun 26, 2006 22:22:40 GMT -5
My two greatest cton defeats happened early in the game when I attack a warrior with 3 of my warriors and lost leaving my city empty for capture. It happened to me twice so no longer do that. I figure 3 vs one, even fortified on forest, was a sure victory, but I can attest, it is surely not. That's happened to me too. Now when I attack like that, I do it one unit at a time to make sure I have good odds with the last unit .
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Post by churchill1 on Jun 27, 2006 1:25:50 GMT -5
LOL. Warrior rushes.
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Post by dreddcool on Jun 27, 2006 8:39:28 GMT -5
i usually lose my games to churchill ;D
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Post by tamijo on Jun 28, 2006 8:34:58 GMT -5
Bad luck, and the fact that everybody hates me, tends to get me killed to often in CTON's.
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Post by Ellestar on Jun 28, 2006 9:08:55 GMT -5
By the way, one more important addition to my post. So to be able to think how you should have acted in a game in a certain situation, during a game you should remember that you'll think about it after a game will. So, you need to make a note in mind for himself about all such situations while you're still playing. If you just ended a game but don't remember these situations that happened during a game, you'll not be able to think about it later.
Also, don't forget that there is a big difference between cause and effect. Generally it's far less efficient to try to fix secondary causes that are actually effects of primary causes. For example, you had less units than an enemy at some moment and so you was killed. If you had half of the enemy economy your real cause of a loss is a bad economy, not a number of units at some moment. If your economy is so bad mostly because you was chocked or you lost starting worker(s) but it's good in ideal conditions, this may become a primary cause why you lost. And so on.
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Post by tommynt on Jun 28, 2006 17:28:31 GMT -5
apart from teamlosses u usually loose cause u r a not as good player - i see few players who got special skillz in special stuff - the good buildupplayers usually fight clever aswell and so
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Post by swissy on Jun 28, 2006 18:46:50 GMT -5
When I lose in a cton it could be for a myriad of reasons. Usually its because I have a close neighbor with capitol horses or copper who sends a handful of units over and makes clearing my land of them my primary goal. While you can catch up on land score, the hit to my population is usually to much to recover from. If you fall behind in population you'll soon fall behind on tech unless you have many gold generating resources. If I'm not one of the top two in population by mid-game, I figure its gonna take a few deaths to even have a shot at first.
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