|
Post by tommynt on May 21, 2006 12:54:20 GMT -5
so what samurai suck anyway
|
|
|
Post by deyreepher on May 21, 2006 21:35:53 GMT -5
Damnit....you guys are right. I swear I traded iron for copper in a game and was still able to build Samurai. Such a big oversight.
|
|
|
Post by churchill1 on May 22, 2006 12:17:37 GMT -5
yeah tony is right. sorry. i can remember at least one occasion, going after samurai and realising once i got there that i needed iron (and i hadnt bothered to research iron working ) of course i had copper. anyways samurai are nice (arent they?). mace's are city killers in stacks with catas. any xtra 1st strikes (or whatever) r just a bonus. heh
|
|
|
Post by deyreepher on May 22, 2006 17:27:13 GMT -5
Well, it's a tough call. After doing the research, Conquistadors are nearly the same thing as Samurai, except they have 2 more Strength. In my opinion, however, Samurai just have longevity. Cheap to build, you can mass them like crazy. Properly supported, you can do some damage with them or annoy the hell out of an opponent.
|
|
|
Post by Elledge on May 22, 2006 23:49:02 GMT -5
2 more strength...and 2 moves.
That's kinda a big difference.
|
|
|
Post by ironclad on May 22, 2006 23:58:19 GMT -5
my team has always lost when dey has chooses japan on our team
|
|
|
Post by churchill1 on May 23, 2006 3:20:43 GMT -5
well i am speaking from a anc cton point of view. and in terms of tech it is easier to get to mace. they r cheaper, when ur infrastructure won't be as good. erm and who's to say u will get spain . in terms of city killing, they r the strongest unit (i think this is right) for a long time (excepting praets) to upgrade to city attack (not sure what the proper name for this promo is - heh)
|
|
|
Post by MookieNJ on May 23, 2006 3:35:17 GMT -5
my team has always lost when dey has chooses japan on our team Well, there was that game where you built 14 cities and forgot to build units .
|
|
|
Post by deyreepher on May 23, 2006 6:42:24 GMT -5
City Raider and it wasn't because of me that we lost those games IC. The front totally opposite to me on our team has always collapsed. The exception is with the Islandia game, but you'll forgive me for not getting an artist when our GP'er pops 2 Engineers and uses them for Chemistry and Constitution instead of a GA.
|
|
|
Post by Atomation on Jun 13, 2006 18:11:32 GMT -5
Samurai, like navy seals, just aren't enough better than their replacement to warrant using the civ. However, aggressive in general is good, so going japan isn't all bad. If you can stage a good stack with sams in it (and at least 1 with medic upgrade) you should be able to do some damage. They stack wonderfully with pikes, eles, and catas. I especially like to flank with 2-3 knights on the side when i get up to a city - usually people see a bunch of sams and totally neglect to build pikes, so your knights really do something serious.
I would say that spain is probably the best overall nation for ren era, barring russia. Saladin comes in a close second. India is fine, too, but overrated now that chopping is nerfed. And what's up with your synopsis of asoka? He is great, you just need to play him differently (build up and expand as opposed to pushing and attrition of gandhi). Since its alot harder to stop someone from building up and expanding than it is to stop someone from pushing, I'd go with asoka every time.
|
|
|
Post by Elledge on Jun 13, 2006 19:07:46 GMT -5
I don't understand your comparison. The only difference between Gandhi and Asoka is the organized trait versus the industrious trait. So you're looking at an extra 0 (early) - 10 (late) gold per turn versus half-price forges.
I'll take the forges, thanks.
I think Napoleon is a bit stronger than Spain in large ren era games. The smaller the game, the worse, because it takes longer to get to gunpowder, but in a 4v4 or 5v5 you will probably get gunpowder around the same time you hook up iron and horse. Given that, Napoleon's 3up musketeers are the best unit in the era, given the choice of pinch or formation upgrades. Conquistadors are extremely strong, but unfortunately war elephants are a strong counter to them even on hills, whereas nothing is a strong counter to musketeers on hills except to throw a thingyload of catas at them.
So my preferences go Gandhi (move-chop forest isn't twice as fast anymore as a normal worker, but it's still 2 turns instead of 3, so I'll take it thanks), then Napoleon, then Spain. If I can't get any of those I throw a hissy fit and make someone stop taking my favorite civs. If I still can't get any of those I take Elizabeth and pray I'm in the back ;D
Oh, and Saladin's great too. I just don't like to rush.
|
|
|
Post by Atomation on Jun 15, 2006 9:17:14 GMT -5
If you think that organized only gives you 0-10 gold, you don't know very much about organized .
|
|
|
Post by Elledge on Jun 15, 2006 10:49:15 GMT -5
Eh. The average player in a renaissance teamer has anywhere from 4-10 cities, depending on position. Hell, sometimes you might struggle to hold 4 decent cities if you're on a tough front. Seems to me that their civic upkeep is gonna be 20-30 at the top end, barring extreme circumstances.
|
|
|
Post by Atomation on Jun 17, 2006 13:29:12 GMT -5
So, to make your point, you use the minimal amounts of civic upkeep possible? Wouldn't the expected value be a more suitable representation?
|
|
|
Post by lporiginalg on Jun 17, 2006 20:34:06 GMT -5
organized sucks
|
|
|
Post by Elledge on Jun 17, 2006 23:57:18 GMT -5
^^
|
|
|
Post by ironclad on Jun 18, 2006 12:13:17 GMT -5
org is the worst trait in GAME !
|
|
|
Post by Atomation on Jun 20, 2006 0:17:20 GMT -5
Organized is inferior in general, yes, mostly because there is no guarentee that you can take advantage of it - you might not be able to build enough cities to make it worth it. But india has no problem expanding like mad while still having plenty of military.
|
|
|
Post by churchill1 on Jun 20, 2006 13:14:44 GMT -5
AFAICT organised sucks.
But someone should do the maths. (But not me).
Cos if org sucks even a little less than we think then i reckon asoka would be a good choice.
|
|
|
Post by MookieNJ on Jun 22, 2006 1:50:30 GMT -5
I would say that spain is probably the best overall nation for ren era, barring russia. Saladin comes in a close second. India is fine, too, but overrated now that chopping is nerfed. I'll take Ghandi first just about everytime. Who cares if chopping is nerfed? It's nerfed for everyone, so Ghandi still has the same advantages he had before. Faster chops, faster mines, faster roads ... I don't care if it takes 2 turns instead of 1 to chop a forest, I don't want to play against Ghandi on the front when he's got a lot of forests at his disposal.
|
|