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Post by tommynt on Dec 5, 2005 4:21:21 GMT -5
hm damn my adding screenshot dont work (made such a msn user group site to publish files and pictures - and tried to add here by copying the url which is like that de.msnusers.com/Tommynt/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=2 - what did i do wrong?) edit: heh now it worked here s my 1. start aswell: de.msnusers.com/Tommynt/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=1I now just copied link instead using the insert image option In epic game being started I had a 5 wood + all other ice and water start on a big custum continents map after another mulligan what happens .... exactly same start again, same civ, wtf? ?? we know that mapgen is screwed, but why exactly same start for same player out of 10? does mapgen use name for doing his "randomness"? does it pick one start out of 25 saved? had sometimes same starts playing 1 vs1 s on mirror map allready, not a big deal to restart such a game - but wft? Why wasnt this bs at least patched?
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Post by drspike on Dec 5, 2005 5:47:31 GMT -5
I've had to restart duels on mirror too. It was the same in 1.00, albeit with a different map.
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Post by whiplash on Dec 5, 2005 8:03:24 GMT -5
If the map generator is not random I would have thought that it would have been discovered during the Beta testing. Tommy's experience suggests that the map is generated from player input data; same data - same map. Perhaps it's a lazy programmers solution to getting nearly equally spaced city start locations. The isolated "sure win" start location for ctons in C3C was a frequent complaint. A good map generator would be random with certain constraints. Typically, random number generators use the current time as the seed number for generating random data. Using this method a result such as what Tommy shows would be statistically nearly impossible.
We could get a group together to test this.
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Cruise
Settler
Dutchy
Posts: 45
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Post by Cruise on Dec 5, 2005 9:33:33 GMT -5
Good find, good screenshots. Huge flaw has surfaced here. The maps and more importantly the placements need a LOT more work. Not only these kind of starts should never happen, also the starts with a neighbour within 8 squares should be gone.
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map gen
Dec 5, 2005 10:22:24 GMT -5
Post by Avogadro on Dec 5, 2005 10:22:24 GMT -5
I posted at Frankensteain about the issue and sent Tommynt's screenshots. So that they can work on it for next patch.
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map gen
Dec 5, 2005 14:08:03 GMT -5
Post by Vermillion on Dec 5, 2005 14:08:03 GMT -5
I was in that game, and fo what its worth, I've had it happen before this on other maps
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map gen
Dec 5, 2005 16:42:07 GMT -5
Post by Avogadro on Dec 5, 2005 16:42:07 GMT -5
Please if you still have a save send it to me (this save or next time it happens) at michel_desormeau@hotmail.com so I may forward save to appropriate persons working on next patch.
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map gen
Dec 5, 2005 17:41:30 GMT -5
Post by tommynt on Dec 5, 2005 17:41:30 GMT -5
save sent
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map gen
Dec 5, 2005 20:01:48 GMT -5
Post by Avogadro on Dec 5, 2005 20:01:48 GMT -5
Thanks Tommy!!! I passed it along. Now some more homework, you guys find me one about the "end of game popup score" bug the one where pop-up doesnt reflect the score at end of turn.
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map gen
Dec 5, 2005 20:43:47 GMT -5
Post by Canucksoldier on Dec 5, 2005 20:43:47 GMT -5
Yes the random seed bug is a known bug and is being worked on. As to the map generation in general, some maps have had work done to them to make them "fairer" and some haven't. Some will never be fair, they are designed to be "natural/fractal" maps, ie in nature some people do get screwed. Sirian posted a statement about this awhile ago. Maps like continents are always going to be a pain to get relatively even starts as they were not designed for that purpose. Remember us MP players are not the centre of the universe, just because a map is available in the MP map list doesn't mean it was designed for MP. Many are designed for SP, and fairness is not always a consideration in SP.
CS
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map gen
Dec 5, 2005 21:20:06 GMT -5
Post by Death to ALL on Dec 5, 2005 21:20:06 GMT -5
Note on the insert image button, you have to allow popups from this site, or hold the CTRL button while cliking on the button.
DTA
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map gen
Dec 5, 2005 23:40:46 GMT -5
Post by Cereal_Killa on Dec 5, 2005 23:40:46 GMT -5
I've played on the same maps many times. Sometimes the shapes of the islands are the same, but the resources are different. Other times everything is exactly the same and I can plant my 2nd city on Iron before getting Iron Working ;D
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Cruise
Settler
Dutchy
Posts: 45
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Post by Cruise on Dec 6, 2005 2:53:10 GMT -5
Yes the random seed bug is a known bug and is being worked on. As to the map generation in general, some maps have had work done to them to make them "fairer" and some haven't. Some will never be fair, they are designed to be "natural/fractal" maps, ie in nature some people do get screwed. Sirian posted a statement about this awhile ago. Maps like continents are always going to be a pain to get relatively even starts as they were not designed for that purpose. Remember us MP players are not the centre of the universe, just because a map is available in the MP map list doesn't mean it was designed for MP. Many are designed for SP, and fairness is not always a consideration in SP. CS Then some popular map scripts for epics like continents/islands should be made available for good MP games.
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mezi
Settler
Posts: 23
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Post by mezi on Dec 6, 2005 5:41:58 GMT -5
played a teamer today, mirror, where one very experianced player did move and planted on iron where as the opposing player did not. each were in the front lines, and the result was exactly what you'd expect, it strikes me that with a little experiance, and w/o map variance, that this can lead to some pretty unfair matches
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Post by friedrichpsitalon on Dec 6, 2005 7:39:38 GMT -5
It will be fixed in the next patch. I believe - this is a guess, totally - that if you completely exit civ and restart it, that will fix the problem.
(Or just not play on the same map twice in a row?)
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Post by donaldkipper on Dec 6, 2005 8:05:17 GMT -5
well it was a relstart after a mulligan start on an epic
still all exiting civ is at least a solution
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Post by tommynt on Dec 6, 2005 9:06:22 GMT -5
hm doubt that exiting civ helps - the same mirror starts have been on different days and i think i reloaded civ during the same epic starts.
@ mezi The guys who moved onto iron is a noob and was neither happy to do so nor did he play the map before and knew where iron ll be just lil tip btw - i have never seen a res where settler starts - but often close - so if u move u have a small chance to plant on it
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