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Spy's
Sept 22, 2007 15:42:23 GMT -5
Post by Canucksoldier on Sept 22, 2007 15:42:23 GMT -5
13 votes for banning spies, partially or completely. 7 votes for allowing spies with no restrictions. And the winner is... Thanks for the demonstration of how much the community's opinion matters. Axius , my take on the poll is that this should be decdied on a game by game basis, which is how we approached it in the CCCAC, RUS is welcome to send two of it's players as reps to the CCCAC, it is unknown to my why you have not done so before now. Feel free to pm me for the pw. CS
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Spy's
Sept 22, 2007 17:07:21 GMT -5
Post by TheClash on Sept 22, 2007 17:07:21 GMT -5
well CS, but this is exactly not done in CCC settings. There is actually only one general spy rule: active and passive allowed
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Spy's
Sept 22, 2007 18:19:13 GMT -5
Post by Canucksoldier on Sept 22, 2007 18:19:13 GMT -5
well CS, but this is exactly not done in CCC settings. There is actually only one general spy rule: active and passive allowed Yes and in the Ren and Med teamers spy's are banned, because those were the two events identified as really being harmed by spys. Your CCCAC reps did not indicate that any more events were ruined by Spying. As well I'll add that CR with spy's to change civics will be banned, if it's not in the general rules yet. Not to mention that 23 votes is not enough of a sample of the clan members to assume anything, if there was 100 votes then I'd take it as a accurate measure of CCC players want, I think the clan reps are a much better indication of what the different clans want than a poll that few bothered to vote in. CS
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Spy's
Sept 22, 2007 18:42:47 GMT -5
Post by TheClash on Sept 22, 2007 18:42:47 GMT -5
well CS, but this is exactly not done in CCC settings. There is actually only one general spy rule: active and passive allowed Yes and in the Ren and Med teamers spy's are banned, because those were the two events identified as really being harmed by spys. Your CCCAC reps did not indicate that any more events were ruined by Spying. As well I'll add that CR with spy's to change civics will be banned, if it's not in the general rules yet. Not to mention that 23 votes is not enough of a sample of the clan members to assume anything, if there was 100 votes then I'd take it as a accurate measure of CCC players want, I think the clan reps are a much better indication of what the different clans want than a poll that few bothered to vote in. CS well, if you read the tread carefully its metioned quite often that OCC games are destroyed by spies. Therefore a lot of players asked for passive spy only. And I think I totally agree with axius. And which poll had 100 votes of active CCC players? Cant remember? If you think clan reps indicate ladder players wishes better fine, but dont ask again for any poll cause that will be
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Spy's
Sept 23, 2007 0:31:10 GMT -5
Post by Canucksoldier on Sept 23, 2007 0:31:10 GMT -5
Yes you are right about what is needed for the OCC games, I am willing to ban spy missions for those. If you have been specific in your request in the first place we would have avoided these generalities.
CS
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Spy's
Sept 23, 2007 3:25:30 GMT -5
Post by TheClash on Sept 23, 2007 3:25:30 GMT -5
Yes you are right about what is needed for the OCC games, I am willing to ban spy missions for those. If you have been specific in your request in the first place we would have avoided these generalities. CS
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axius
Warrior
CCCAC Representative
Posts: 220
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Spy's
Sept 23, 2007 14:26:50 GMT -5
Post by axius on Sept 23, 2007 14:26:50 GMT -5
Yes, yes, please! A very specific request that's been agreed by all OCC players who posted here (and in all the games I've only seen 1 person disagree):
In OCC games: PASSIVE SPIES ONLY.
This is already the default rule in OCC, just like No Nukes/No Inet - ask anybody.
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redphoenix
Warrior
CCCAC Representative
Posts: 253
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Spy's
Sept 24, 2007 3:01:22 GMT -5
Post by redphoenix on Sept 24, 2007 3:01:22 GMT -5
13 votes for banning spies, partially or completely. 7 votes for allowing spies with no restrictions. And the winner is... Thanks for the demonstration of how much the community's opinion matters. Axius , my take on the poll is that this should be decdied on a game by game basis, which is how we approached it in the CCCAC, RUS is welcome to send two of it's players as reps to the CCCAC, it is unknown to my why you have not done so before now. Feel free to pm me for the pw. CS Maybe didn't vote because one choise is missing: Scouting is evil, missions are Fine. That is the real problem of spy, and cannot be solved completely by ban. Spies can still scout open terrain , and possibly enemy. Scouting the reason spies suck, not missions. Only OCC is really hurt by missions, in any other events, missions are FINE. So ban it ONLY in OCC, allow in others, wtf If you ban spy, ban scouting totally aswell, cuz just banning missions IS TOTALLY USELESS.
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Spy's
Sept 24, 2007 7:18:23 GMT -5
Post by 9iron9 on Sept 24, 2007 7:18:23 GMT -5
i am a total hater of spies being used for scouting, in or out of territory. but spies do bring a tactical edge that is good, for example cutting rds rd a target city to stop reinforcements is great. if spies could only see the tile they are in then i think they would be ok, or could see further if they were upgradeable in later eras or something.
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axius
Warrior
CCCAC Representative
Posts: 220
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Spy's
Sept 24, 2007 16:59:51 GMT -5
Post by axius on Sept 24, 2007 16:59:51 GMT -5
Maybe didn't vote because one choise is missing: Scouting is evil, missions are Fine. That is the real problem of spy, and cannot be solved completely by ban. Spies can still scout open terrain , and possibly enemy. Scouting the reason spies suck, not missions. Only OCC is really hurt by missions, in any other events, missions are FINE. So ban it ONLY in OCC, allow in others, wtf If you ban spy, ban scouting totally aswell, cuz just banning missions IS TOTALLY USELESS. You got it. Missions have little impact in normal games (assuming that Cristo exploit is already banned) while scouting is evil. While in OCC it's exactly the opposite - scouting is harmless while missions can destroy the game. The changes were made though - thanks CS. Just one question: how exactly to police the ban on scouting? If somebody decides to cheat - there is no way of detecting it.
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Spy's
Sept 24, 2007 18:17:12 GMT -5
Post by zzZhenon on Sept 24, 2007 18:17:12 GMT -5
A majority shouldn't decide whether spies should be banned or not, it should be a 3/4ths majority as spies and espionage are basically what makes BtS. Play with spies longer, we're still too noob with them.
In a specialty game like OCC, I see nothing wrong with banning them.
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Spy's
Sept 24, 2007 20:07:04 GMT -5
Post by Canucksoldier on Sept 24, 2007 20:07:04 GMT -5
A majority shouldn't decide whether spies should be banned or not, it should be a 3/4ths majority as spies and espionage are basically what makes BtS. Play with spies longer, we're still too noob with them. In a specialty game like OCC, I see nothing wrong with banning them. Which is why I resorted to deciding on an event by event basis, according to the advice from the clans reps. All of which can change if we develop new strategies. CS
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redphoenix
Warrior
CCCAC Representative
Posts: 253
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Spy's
Sept 28, 2007 4:02:38 GMT -5
Post by redphoenix on Sept 28, 2007 4:02:38 GMT -5
A majority shouldn't decide whether spies should be banned or not, it should be a 3/4ths majority as spies and espionage are basically what makes BtS. Play with spies longer, we're still too noob with them. In a specialty game like OCC, I see nothing wrong with banning them. Which is why I resorted to deciding on an event by event basis, according to the advice from the clans reps. All of which can change if we develop new strategies. CS i think clan reps view was that scouting is the real problem with spies, not the missions. Though with the exception of OCC.
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Spy's
Sept 28, 2007 4:09:50 GMT -5
Post by TheClash on Sept 28, 2007 4:09:50 GMT -5
Which is why I resorted to deciding on an event by event basis, according to the advice from the clans reps. All of which can change if we develop new strategies. CS i think clan reps view was that scouting is the real problem with spies, not the missions. Though with the exception of OCC. guess you need blind spies for doing missions without scouting that will be not allowed
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redphoenix
Warrior
CCCAC Representative
Posts: 253
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Spy's
Sept 28, 2007 9:58:58 GMT -5
Post by redphoenix on Sept 28, 2007 9:58:58 GMT -5
i think clan reps view was that scouting is the real problem with spies, not the missions. Though with the exception of OCC. guess you need blind spies for doing missions without scouting that will be not allowed Would be something great as to have as an option, wish they added this to the game. a tickbox you can select to have this.
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Spy's
Sept 28, 2007 17:37:53 GMT -5
Post by atlas on Sept 28, 2007 17:37:53 GMT -5
isnt the scouting part the real bad in spies? I think the missions themself are fine as they are kinda costly. I really dont get why people d vote for option 2 but some might not get game mechanics. For once me and Tommy agree on something. Setting up a sentry net used to be a skill and taking down an opponents sentry net was the first step for a successful attack. Spies now take this part of the game out. Spies are nothing more than unit for noobs who can't setup a sentry net or use the sentry promotion on their units. +1 +1 Where is the skill of setting up a sentry net? Where is the meta-gaming? The guessing what they are researching? The guessing where their stack is? Spies are an SP feature that has no place in standard MP play
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