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Post by civfloaterhun on Dec 2, 2005 7:27:45 GMT -5
Warning this will be long!!!
With this thread i want to contribute to this new game which is still in his childhood. Balance is terrible, but i thought child labour is forbidden in the USA so why the play-testers cannot figure out something in months for money which i figure out in 2 hours in my pleasure time?
When Rise of Nations came out i was among the firsts to contribute with balance issues, although that was not crappy with patch 0 either like CIV4. RoN got almost perfectly playable for the 3rd!!! patch, still eg the Dutch on water map OP(over powered).
So here is the thing, basically any duell (on tiny map too) you can win with Egypt. There is always horse on the usually used ladder maps nearby. Worst case one city away. In the worst case scenario too you can have your chariot at the enemy copper field before he could have popped out a spearmen... And its gg. This strat is very stupid, although some tend to find pleasure using this (Hey guys in top ten do u have a life?)
So here is what u do: tech: animal husbandry, bronze-working, archery the others u wont even need
Here is what u build: warrior,warrior,worker, (maybe archer if the enemy is threatening your horses), (settler if horse is away, u build the city on horse so u save a lot of time), now another worker and the chopping business can start.
One chopping is done in 2 turns and gives u 20 wood usually the 5 strength chariot costs only 16!!! like an archer, although it kills archer out of city anytime.
You can do the maths Ive done too, u will swarm chariots, and basically if the enemy put down a second city he will loose that asap, if not he will die slowly just building archers. Yeah its not the game meant to be. I ALWAYS WON BY THIS STRAT, although u can do the maths for proof. Even if the enemy has copper next to his city, and defending it with swarm of archers until he pops out spearmen, u will fork with the fast chariot his city and mine (forking is a chess expression meaning u attack 2 or more at the same time)....
Ive already wrote in another thread that cton or ffa ladder is full of exploit by implicit teammates, now i write that the most just (meaning that better skill prevails) type of game the 1v1 is crap too. Its sad that a whole ladder community suffers cos firaxis couldt hire people who know what is balancing, maybe non statedly its a noob single player game since lobby numbers dont show the million sold copies.
My suggestion some of the nations should be blacklisted for some types of map, so the ladder rating shows skills again so no a monkey dumb strat will be awarded (I made my chariot strat perfect in 2 hours, i think no player should be high ranked with that short learning curve) .
to be continued with unbeatable Inca strat....
ii: i wont play ladder until these issues will be solved (maybe one or two years knowing firaxis guys)
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Post by yilar on Dec 2, 2005 7:46:24 GMT -5
I wish the newbs with no clue would stop posting. I'll glady beat the living nuts out of you with non-egygt / non-inca anyday!
The only strategy that was unbeatable was the plant on horse egygt which they fixed in the recent patch.
Btw, i hate the censur..
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Post by drspike on Dec 2, 2005 7:56:48 GMT -5
Don't do anything that will stop him posting Yilar........he is hilarious.
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Post by civfloaterhun on Dec 2, 2005 8:05:57 GMT -5
So u call me a noob, can u do the maths big head? By the way im noob, cos im playing only for a week, but i have 2 years experience in a balanced game named RON, i was (iam) in top 30 there.
Some clue for start: With a usuall nation to have spearmen is how many turns(with roads or another city) ?
How many turns does it take until you make a fork with your charriot?
Bye the way building city on horse is not fixed, where do u live on the moon? (im using 1.09)
By this sentence, that u yourself consider that by building a city on a horse wins you the game, u admit yourself that everything i wrote is true.... Why? Cos 50% of the games u have horse next to your capital.
You must prolly work for firaxis, or u were a beta tester and that makes u think that u are a smart ass, am i right?
Challange accepted publicly, beat me with non Egypt. My msn: floatertheplayer@hotmail.com
Drspike: Should i take that as a compliment:)
Edited: Dumbass removed, cos i played with him, and he isnt lol
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Post by yilar on Dec 2, 2005 8:11:19 GMT -5
I dont see you on msn...
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Post by Cereal_Killa on Dec 2, 2005 8:19:38 GMT -5
Yeah floater's cool. As long as he doesn't resort to hacking to win when bored 'Hacking' to find out more about the game is fair imo ;D
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Post by donaldkipper on Dec 2, 2005 8:42:48 GMT -5
i am top 10 and have never played as inca or egypt in a 1v1
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Post by playerxxcc on Dec 2, 2005 9:18:10 GMT -5
unfortunatly now horses suck in civ4, all that wat u wrote was possible before patch, but now u r horses will reveal with ah (which i dont like it, now u almost dont see horses anymore,imo wheel should reveal), and smart enemy oposing egy wont go on religion or some suchy horse rush but straight on bronze or iron, true, if enemy got resource close and u dont (no matter what res) ur usualy screwed, but waht can chariot do vs spear (not even proudly die )
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Post by playerxxcc on Dec 2, 2005 9:40:19 GMT -5
also... i am pissed now.... wtf is wrong with unfair starts, only tjhing that makes civ nice and i9nteresting game is not fair start, ability of player to adjust on what he gets, what i hate is whining about some1 got copper close and i am dead...., what should be changed is some nonresouce unit (such as aztecs jag, but all civs)properly promoted that can take out eary axes or horses, what would give guy wo close resource chance to get it. with all this whining about no resource and stuff, looks like u guys want iron coper and horse all within capital, well f**k, best would be if developers woul make such stupid map taht u could get to some1 only on 1 tile neck (damn i am stupid already exist!?! hubs)... gd get real grrrr i want old civ3 day usual middle 3 v1 gangbeng, taht makes game interesing not score sleeper bitch winning, wtf!?!, good player is not guy with best score but guy that oposes 2 or 3 enemies in middle for whole game gd doen now edited: maybe i missed thread, if i did feel free and delete or whatever
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Post by Avogadro on Dec 2, 2005 9:42:55 GMT -5
Debates are great. Keep the name calling down please.
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Post by yilar on Dec 2, 2005 10:44:18 GMT -5
Can't believe we played 2 games where the horse was 3 squares away, both times the iron/copper was 6+ squares away. At least he f**ked up and i ended up winning by getting iron hooked before his chariots could reach me. Anyway you can always pick the same civ and your enemy will never have any advantages
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Post by civfloaterhun on Dec 2, 2005 10:46:49 GMT -5
Anyone is courious about the matches i played againt Yilar? U can download at: www.noreplay-function.orgAs am reading Yilars moaning ->Hmm maybe Yilar dumbass anyway... The facts: We played 3 games, in the first i misscalculated warrior movement and he walked into my defenseless Capitol. In the second game i raped him in 30 turns with chariots. In the 3rd game he won by population score 400 points difference at the end of 140 turns. So ecce homo: Yilar I tried to be friendly after your insult too, but i was wrong about my attitude, you dont deserve that.
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Post by yilar on Dec 2, 2005 10:53:33 GMT -5
Anyone is courious about the matches i played againt Yilar? U can download at: www.noreplay-function.orgAs am reading Yilars moaning ->Hmm maybe Yilar dumbass anyway... The facts: We played 3 games, in the first i misscalculated warrior movement and he walked into my defenseless Capitol. In the second game i raped him in 30 turns with chariots. In the 3rd game he won by population score 400 points difference at the end of 140 turns. So ecce homo: Yilar I tried to be friendly after your insult too, but i was wrong about my attitude, you dont deserve that. Haha All i've said is the truth!
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Post by zzZhenon on Dec 2, 2005 11:36:21 GMT -5
I haven't been playing MP lately, but I wanted to point out a couple of similiarities in this discussion compared to Civ3's early issues.
Regarding the chariot rush -- In C3C, the jag rush used to be "unstoppable." I think most of the C3P community knows that not to be true any more. Another similarity is the early TOW rush in future games. Remember all the old-time future players that couldn't hack the new draft-rush strat? We learned to cope with it... and as it became more popular, very often a person that was rushing another opponent got rushed himself, lol.
So basically what I'm saying is:
As a strat becomes more widely known, the less effective it becomes. Ex: If you're rushing someone with chariots what's stopping someone else from rushing you with chariots? Rush the rusher! Chariot rushing will become risky in most cases. (obviously not if you're playing on a great plains map tucked away in a corner with an ally/teammate on one side and an enemy on the other(for example), hell you'd be stupid not to chariot rush them if possible)
There's always going to be some noob out there getting rushed and killed. Recommendation: join a clan and/or play with people at your skill level -- playing newbies is only good for improving your skill-rating/win-loss record.
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Post by Avogadro on Dec 2, 2005 13:03:52 GMT -5
playing sp does wonders for my win/loss ratio
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Post by MMV on Dec 2, 2005 13:45:03 GMT -5
Don't listen to Avo, Japan thinks he is a Rat Fink - LOL!
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Post by sparta on Dec 2, 2005 18:04:15 GMT -5
Warning this will be long!!! With this thread i want to contribute to this new game which is still in his childhood. Balance is terrible, but i thought child labour is forbidden in the USA so why the play-testers cannot figure out something in months for money which i figure out in 2 hours in my pleasure time? When Rise of Nations came out i was among the firsts to contribute with balance issues, although that was not crappy with patch 0 either like CIV4. RoN got almost perfectly playable for the 3rd!!! patch, still eg the Dutch on water map OP(over powered). So here is the thing, basically any duell (on tiny map too) you can win with Egypt. There is always horse on the usually used ladder maps nearby. Worst case one city away. In the worst case scenario too you can have your chariot at the enemy copper field before he could have popped out a spearmen... And its gg. This strat is very stupid, although some tend to find pleasure using this (Hey guys in top ten do u have a life?) So here is what u do: tech: animal husbandry, bronze-working, archery the others u wont even need Here is what u build: warrior,warrior,worker, (maybe archer if the enemy is threatening your horses), (settler if horse is away, u build the city on horse so u save a lot of time), now another worker and the chopping business can start. One chopping is done in 2 turns and gives u 20 wood usually the 5 strength chariot costs only 16!!! like an archer, although it kills archer out of city anytime. You can do the maths Ive done too, u will swarm chariots, and basically if the enemy put down a second city he will loose that asap, if not he will die slowly just building archers. Yeah its not the game meant to be. I ALWAYS WON BY THIS STRAT, although u can do the maths for proof. Even if the enemy has copper next to his city, and defending it with swarm of archers until he pops out spearmen, u will fork with the fast chariot his city and mine (forking is a chess expression meaning u attack 2 or more at the same time).... Ive already wrote in another thread that cton or ffa ladder is full of exploit by implicit teammates, now i write that the most just (meaning that better skill prevails) type of game the 1v1 is crap too. Its sad that a whole ladder community suffers cos firaxis couldt hire people who know what is balancing, maybe non statedly its a noob single player game since lobby numbers dont show the million sold copies. My suggestion some of the nations should be blacklisted for some types of map, so the ladder rating shows skills again so no a monkey dumb strat will be awarded (I made my chariot strat perfect in 2 hours, i think no player should be high ranked with that short learning curve) . to be continued with unbeatable Inca strat.... ii: i wont play ladder until these issues will be solved (maybe one or two years knowing firaxis guys) Yep, it's obvious you are a total pro at this game and you know everything and you can beat everyone.
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Post by friedrichpsitalon on Dec 2, 2005 18:19:39 GMT -5
*click*
CivFloater and Yilar - please consider this a formal warning. If you two are going to slag each other, do it privately. I'm surprised that Avogadro didn't give you both time off the boards after you continued slagging each other when he warned you the first time.
Please believe that I will not be so lenient if you continue to slag each other after my warning.
This forum will be conducted with respect to each other.
Thread locked.
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