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Post by civfloaterhun on Nov 30, 2005 13:02:55 GMT -5
I tell u why. Thats great that people cannot speak, but nobody can check if privately 2 is speaking or not so knowing this this rule only harms the trouthfull players, who at least would speak in public.
Today i had a game where 5 player ffa always war. As i was leading in score and military by the 25th turn suddenly 2! attacked me at the same time, of course a third noticed that and he attacked me too.
Let me be naive for a moment that theese two guys (i dont tell names yet) didnt speak about that that they take the win over the other 3 by working together.... In this case leading the scoreboard may not be wise (in every rts there is tournament play mode where u cannot see the scores...).
In this case if you are good you are deemed to loose, or play the way which is totally against fun or enjoying the game what it meant. So play the game that you have the worst score till 10 turns before the end turn. Meanwhile you stock up 5 settlers, they dont increase your scores. And in the last turn you put down 5 cities and win.
So the bottom line cton ffa is either killed by conspiracy(the way i was killed, or by stupid game play stile). So forget it until at least there is an option to turn of communication, and scorelist.....
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Post by Sidhe on Nov 30, 2005 13:26:08 GMT -5
There's no such game as FFA CTON, FFA is a Free For All system where all forms of diplomacy or those set in the staging room at the start are allowed. always war or CTON is the opposite: a style of play where no game communication and no contact of any kind is allowed. Even saying oh damn I have Rome on me is an offence against the rules. It seems to me you got gang banged by a team, that's ffa for you. Try the CTON/always war style that should be more to your liking always war and no game information. If you do get gang banged it'll be because you are far ahead on score and are thus advertising yourself as a target.
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Post by civfloaterhun on Nov 30, 2005 13:35:11 GMT -5
U dont understand my point, this kind of game is totally abusive, this way some people working together in cton can have rank top ten in days. Its just basic maths. 2 is working together one time one of them gets the enemy capital the other time the other, at the and one looses to the other, in the next game vica versa.
Their rank will be growin only by playing this stupid game. Its not what it is meant to be.
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Post by Sly_time on Nov 30, 2005 13:44:40 GMT -5
well FFA and CTON are 2 different types of games....FFA allows all type of trading and alliances basically it is a n open format...and cton allows no trading or alliances and private talk
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Post by Lestat on Nov 30, 2005 13:52:46 GMT -5
I belive that FFA CTON exists... Smart and vet players kno wot is my point.
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Post by civfloaterhun on Nov 30, 2005 13:56:41 GMT -5
Yeah i mixed that, nevertheless what im saying is true, and its plain stupid to come with this ffa is not cton, its like arguing about wrong spelling of a word instead of the meaning.
What abuses i wrote can be done in both, what i wrote mainly refers to cton, cos normal ffa is only played by implicite teams who almost stated together kill the "newbies" and get the reward.
What i mean in cton you cannot check if 2 is speaking, u can check if somebody speaks to the public. And i wrote in my first text what it leads to... So guys can u be constructive? Once at least in a life time?
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Post by Sly_time on Nov 30, 2005 14:00:57 GMT -5
well amongst the older ladder players there is a honor system in place and upheld...you will have some problems with newer players sometimes that dont understand the rules or just dont have the integrity to play by them...
dont look at your situation as a negative it gave you valuable training for situations that happen quite often in team games double and triple teamed is not unusual...also in any cton or ffa game if you are a point lead then you are the main target...i personally like to stay in striking distance and then point rush at the end
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Post by civfloaterhun on Nov 30, 2005 14:05:37 GMT -5
What i say cton should not be in the ladder (ffa too) cos cannot solve the problem of implicite teams. Any serious tournament would only make team and 1v1 games on balanced or mirror map.
Im saying that the ranks are totally useless if you can get points in game types which are abusive. Its just my 2 cents to make things better.
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Post by Lestat on Nov 30, 2005 14:10:41 GMT -5
Early kill neigbour is way to succes. But if I play with same 2 guys which are neighbour's in 10 games and they dnt kill each other ... wot is conclusion especialy if they are from same Clan. World is not perfect as CIV to but we can deal with that. Yes u cant control if is CTON rule abused and prove it if u suspected if someone abuse CTON rules. Just play and enjoy in game.
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Post by Sly_time on Nov 30, 2005 14:25:56 GMT -5
once again i will say this "is rank the only reason why you play this"...then you have really missed the boat on what this is for...
we are here to enjoy a few hours of gaming getting away from whatever our life is and what it holds...there was a time i once worried about rank but today i enjoy the game...rank means nothing to myself and many others on the ladder...we still abide by the rules that are established but i am ladder because i want serious players that dont quit games...if you want rank go play a game like checkers, chess, spades, etc, etc
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Post by DrShot on Nov 30, 2005 14:45:33 GMT -5
Point taken. Sly clearly puth forth a point of view I share. I did not have to contact him to arrive at the same conclusion,nor for him to write the post. Sometimes,just like the scenario in game you illistrate, people come to like conclusions and act in similar ways. Obviously there has been, is and will be colusion between players,in and outside of clans. You have amalgamed tourney and regular games into one group, careful. I played a game a few weeks back where all were dead with 20 turns or so left, I had my boarders touching Rome. I had points lead by a margin asuring a victory,death aside. Rome sent them damnedable Praetorians at me for the rest of the game, very troublesom,scray even. This was bad, however the other player in the game had a meandering stack of 4-6 units (best i recal) he saw what was going on and knew his best shot was to assist Rome. He pilled the heck outa me,mercilesly. After the game he made mention how he thought that was the best he could do, I agreed with him in a complimentary way. I never for a moment thatought they were working together in an arranged manor. Their 'team work' almost killed me. On the level, you betchya, and smart play from both who I have played often and look foward to playing again. Not everytime armies show together is it cheating...
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Post by civfloaterhun on Nov 30, 2005 15:51:11 GMT -5
Of course i play for fun, but like being in a Prison as ungilty is very anoying (so no fun) cos its not just. Its not fun either playing a game where u know u loose always if you are not a rat like the others.
I dont want to be rat for some bits, which can be changed by admin, and cannot even buy food for it....
I think we look at the world at different levels, im a step before you about defining fun in this game.
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Post by Vermillion on Nov 30, 2005 16:15:06 GMT -5
i can see your points, however, there are people like myself out there that enjoy a challenge ( 3v1 etc..) and yes usually get screwed, but still enjoy it in the end. I think we have all been triple teamed at one time or another, but what goes aroud comes around. I ve also been on the distribution end of a triple team (not planned). I guess what Im trying to say is....If you love this game (as I do) you will take the good with the bad and begin to actually enjoy both (even if in a sick demented way). Yes some cheat, but you just have to remember who they are and not play them anymore (fool me once shame on you....fool me twice shame on me). I could give a humiliating example of unfair teams I agreed to, but noone likes THAT long of a post
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Post by Canucksoldier on Nov 30, 2005 16:20:01 GMT -5
If you have evidence that player cheated in a cton, please feel free to send your screenshots and saves to the admins. But like it has been stated, geting attacked by multiple players when you are the top scorer does not indicate cheating, they simple just had the same smart idea, kill the winner CS
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Post by Vermillion on Nov 30, 2005 16:27:24 GMT -5
If you have evidence that player cheated in a cton, please feel free to send your screenshots and saves to the admins. CS Ya that too ;D
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Post by soccermaster06 on Nov 30, 2005 17:22:46 GMT -5
Please feel free to gribe about cton. But as a member of civ3 and i can tell you many people felt the same problems but it never went away. If you are in first place weather your not allowed to talk to people or not you will be on the hit list no matter what. It's just the way it is because think about it. How can you win if you attack everyone but the one in lead? It would be sort of hard. hehe
what you can try to fix the problem is to play killer cton. This was growing popularity because i think people felt it helped buildfest problems and also ganging up on the highest point leader and letting the lowest point player just to live.
Basically you award points to the player that gets a kill. Decided before the game starts of course. seven player equal 70 points for the person that gets the kill. Try that out sometime and see if that helps:P
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Post by Avogadro on Nov 30, 2005 19:07:58 GMT -5
Well today 4 on tiny, I was in middle. Mongolia, yeah!!! right? Wrong all 4 civs choke me and I never get even a worker made. But hey, that's ok ;D It's civ. They all wanted GC blood and that is fine with me. Point is sometimes it works out that way. If you do not like cton games then join teamers or true ffas. Many here, myself included, enjoy the cton style. It does wonders for improving your defense that's for sure But if you dont like it then play another format is my suggestion. ps-there was no doubt in my mind that once I was middle and all civs showed up that they "helped" each other. Not through speech probably but since city razing was on then why not gang up on me? One way to counter this is to take off city raze so if one takes one of your towns, the other can take it from them. That way people think twice before ganging up on you.
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evil
Settler
Posts: 23
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Post by evil on Nov 30, 2005 21:31:17 GMT -5
Civfloater, get over yourself. you really think we coordinated even though while i were in your land with axes the other guy was trying to kill my axemen not only that you build a city next to some copper that was right outside my capitols border. why let you get copper? so i came to kill you, You had me to your north and some other guy to your Right, but, how do you like your always war cton features now ? I tried telling you its boring with no thought involved. but seriously. dont fight so hard for an always war cton if you cant handle abit of war. and then come whining on the forums about some big conspiracy agaist you Besides this was the first game i had played with any of you, and yea, i will come forward and say i was one of those you're talking about,..because not only is it unprovable ..its untrue aswell. In always war i generally do attack the guy nearest to me. I guess i should stop doing that because i will soon have a reputation as being a cheater. edit- OH, dont forget to report your loss.
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Post by cantabrian on Dec 1, 2005 0:32:47 GMT -5
I had to lol when i read this as cton is definetly my favourite game style for a lot of the reasons that you are having a gripe about. If your ahead on points expect to be attacked by everyone under you, nothing better than kicking ass in points and fighting off three or more people at the same time and still winning. You need lots of sentrys out, and watch other civs to see which ones are fighting, ive noticed if 2 are going for it often they get so wrapped up in each they just want to kill each other and forget about you. Move some of those border troops round to another border where you know theres a higher chance of getting attacked. Like someone else said get rid of your close neighbours early. I've played a lot of ctons and only once suspected that two players had collabarated together, sure it can happen but very rarely. Or you could always never lead in points if you are that worried about it Cton's are the hardest gamestyle to win consistently and the most fun IMO ;D ;D ;D
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Post by tommynt on Dec 1, 2005 3:51:02 GMT -5
buhhuuu, they didnt let me win, maamaaaa,hit em.
proly u lacked in military then?! never grab more points as u are able to defend
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